Siege Rams For Everybody

O

Ottar

Guest
Necessity For Siege Rams

The game is now at the point where Siege Rams are a necessity. Taking an undefended keep, we can easily remove the doors with just melee. However, in the next patch, melee damage to the doors will be reduced. Rams will be even more important. So we better start familiarizing ourselves beforehand.

Taking a defended keep is another matter entirely. Both albion and hibernia have PBAoE casters that can completely obliterate attacking melee from behind the doors. Melee attacks on PBAoE defended doors is simply providing free RP to the enemy. To take a PBAoE defended keep, one needs at least one, preferrably 2 Siega Rams on the inner door. Otherwise we may just as well pack it and go home to kill them wood-eater ants in Mularn Valley.

Yesterday, hibernia took Bledmeer. We laid siege and got through the doors. Blej and me both came with a ram and took down the inner door. Then albs attacked our backs and took the keep. We came back and tried to take it again. This time, however, noone had a ram. As a direct result, we were unable to get through the inner door and Bledmeer is still in the hands of enemy.

Siege Rams are somewhat expensive. Each one costs about 50g (in this version). Also, getting them to the field is somewhat troublesome. We must spread this expense and work amongst as many people as possible. As it is now, we have been making speeches about everyone having a ram in ones vault. We have been doing it for weeks if not months. Result: in the whole bloody realm, I think there are THREE people who have rams in their vaults. Me, Uku and Blejsarus. We simply cant continue to carry the weight of provinding siege equippment for the whole realm. Unless we get enough people to share this burden, we might as well stop trying to take defended keeps.


How To Get A Siege Ram

To make a Siege Ram, one needs following:

1 ram beak,

1 ram cladding,

2 swing harnesses,

600 ironwood.

All this can be bought from any of the three Merchant Keeps. Each realm’s frontier has one merchant keep, the closest one to the enemy Portal Keeps. Bledmeer in our frontier, Dun Crauchon in Emain and Caer Benowyc in Hadrian’s Wall. In these keeps there are merchants who sell siege parts, there are also woodmerchants there.

As siege parts are heavy, it might be better to get only siege parts from merchant keeps and get the wood from woodmerchant in Jordheim or Gna Faste. It’s especially easy in Gna - woodmerchant and vaultkeeper are just a few steps from eachother.

Stact the ironwood in stacks of 100. That way you will have 6 packs of 100 ironwood which are easily transferrable from vault to inventory and between characters. 1 Siege ram will take up 10 slots in your vault. 4 slots for ram parts and 6 slots for 6 packs of wood.


Carrying The Ram Into Battle

Now that you have a ram in your vault, it it just sists there it does little good. These rams must be put into good use. Whenever it becomes likely that we must attack a defended keep, you should:

1. Get hold of one or two people to help you carry the ram.

2. Tell them to come with you to Svasud Faste vaultkeeper.

3. Share the pieces of the ram between yourselves so that noone is encumbered.

4. Inform someone who looks like he’s in charcge that you are packing a ram.

5. Keep together with people who are carryoing your ram and move to the besieged keep.

Problem with rams is that they are heavy. Total weight of a ram is 311. This CAN be carried by 2 man team, provided that one of tem is a thane. Thane selfbuff makes it possible. You can rely on healer/shaman buffs but that is not the best solution as when you or your buffer gets killed, you will become encumbered.

So, when getting people to carry your ram, try to get a thane. If possible, a troll thane as these are the strrongest ones. Troll shamans are also a good choice as they too can buff themselves. Two people of a viking class, 45+ levels, should be able to carry all the weight without all that much problem.

If you have a thane, give him all the parts and 1 pack of ironwood. The other carrier should go with 5 packs or ironwood.

It is not good to divide the burden between too many people. You can have 10 runemasters to carry your ram but there lies a problem: if even one of them goes LD or just simply logs out of boredom, you are basically out of luck. Having as few carriers as possible reduces danger of that happening.



Building a Siege Ram

Whenever possible, try to save the rams for inner doors. Outer doors can be taken down with melee only. PBAoE casters can’t get to you at the outer door. For inner door, 1 ram may not be enough. Inner doors can be repaired from inside. Also, rams themselves can be targeted by melee inside the keep and hacked to pieces before you get the door down. 2 rams on inner door usually does the trick.

To build a ram you need:

1. To be a crafter. No matter what craft, no matter how high in it. Even a skill level 1 in tailoring will make you able to build any kind of siege weaponry there is.

2. You must have three things in your inventory: sewing kit, smith’s hammer, planning tool.

3. You must have Ironwood Siege Ram icon on your toolbar.

4. You need all the necessary ram pieces in your inventory.

5. You need to be very close to the door you plan to take down with your ram.

Now, being sufficiently close to the door is a bit tricky. The rule of thumb is - you must be able to hit the door with your melee weapon. If you can successfully do that, you are in good position to build the ram. Once ram is built you can’t move it. If you made it in unsuitable place, you are again, out of luck.

You must find the place to build your ram before other carrier(s) hand over the pieces they are carrying. The weight of the whole ram will encumber you so much you will be unable to move (unless you are a troll thane).

So, find a place where you can hit the door with melee weapon. Then go out of combat mode. Then tell other carriers to hand over the pieces. Then click on the build ram icon on your hotbar.

Might take few tries before you get the ram built. No danger there of losing parts to failiures. Just try until you are successful.

Important notes for healers here. During the ram setup, it is important to keep all people carrying the ram pieces alive. Important notice to ram builders: try to have at least one healer in your group. Good if you can get a runie too.

Now comes the important part. One reason why rams are so good, is that they can be operated from several steps away from the actual ram. That means you can be out of range of them cursed PBAoE casters behind the door. As soon as the ram pops on the ground, move back.

Now comes a tricky part. The ram interface is a bit bugged. To circumvent the bug you have to do following:

1. Target the ram.

2. Type /control release

3. Target the ram again

4. Type /control

If you can’t control the ram because you moved too far back, come a bit closer and try again. Repeat until you succeed.

A window pops up on your screen with 4 buttons in it.

AIM, ARM, LOAD, FIRE



Operating a Siege Ram

To operate a siege ram, you must forst aim it at the door. To aim the ram, click on the door, then click on the AIM button.

Now that the ram is aimed, you must arm it. Click on the ARM button. Look at the prograss bar in the control window. There is a trick too. The progress bar DOES NOT need to reach the end. Weapon delay for a ram is about 5 seconds. That progress bar there is about twice that. Means you can fire off the ram when the progress bar is at about halfway through.

When the progress bar is about halfway through, click on the FIRE button.

Then, IMMEDIATELY click on the ARM button again.

Then repeat. ARM. Wait untill the progressbar reaches halfway. FIRE. ARM. Wait untill the progressbar reaches halfway. FIRE. ARM. Until the door is down.


When The Ram Operator Dies

One thing you as a ram operator should do beforehand is to agree with someone to take over the ram when you die. When you die, IMMEDIATELY type /control release. This enables other people to take over the ram. When the ram operator dies, the backup operator is nearby, clicks on the ram, types /control and continues pounding on the door.


Repairing The Ram

As rams can be damaged through doors by melee as well as PBAoE casters, they need repairing. Repairing a ram will significantly increasy their longevity. No wood is required to repair a ram. I think a resonably high level in woodworking is necessary tho.

To repair a ram, target it. Then type /repair. Repairing takes a bit time. Keep the ram targeted, you can see when you are successful when the HP of the ram pops to 100%. Detecting a failiure in repair is harder. Pulsing message spam near keep doors during the attack makes seeing the failiure message kind of hard. If anyone knows a solution to that problem, I would very much like to hear it.

Ottar
 
J

Jupitus

Guest
Originally posted by Ottar
All this can be bought from any of the three Merchant Keeps. Each realm’s frontier has one merchant keep, the closest one to the enemy Portal Keeps. Bledmeer in our frontier....


.... but Albion's hands :p :p :p :p :p

hehe...only kidding ya! Nice write up, some good hints in here ;)

Jup.
 
O

oldgrim

Guest
/claps

well worth spelling it all out in a well written, well thought out post.

Good Man
 
D

dozigden

Guest
A good post, I think it might be worth pointing out that if people are still unsure about siege equipment or ram building, its alway helpfull to carry some spare wood.


However preperation is only part of it.

BEGIN STAND_ON_SOAPBOX

4. Inform someone who looks like he’s in charcge that you are packing a ram.

Yup, we said on alliance chat 3 times we had one but didnt have anyone who could take the beating to assemble it. No one seemed remotely interested. We stopped as everyone seemed to have decided to just hit the door.

END STAND_ON_SOAPBOX
 
J

Jupitus

Guest
Hey Dozi! You should have beckoned me! I'm getting good at siegecraft now... hence so many stones bouncing of your friends' big fat ugly heads last night:clap:
 
D

dozigden

Guest
At least on us they bounce - when they hit you, you just go <squish>! Soft little men!
 
J

Jupitus

Guest
*sigh*

awww yeah... good old leather armour... well at least the girls like it ;)
 
D

dozigden

Guest
Oh dear,

'Cos its not like they'd go for anything else about you!
 
J

Jupitus

Guest
au contraire, Dozi, the moves are pretty damned special too, I'm reliably informed ;)
 
J

Jupitus

Guest
now shut up ya dumb troll! this is meant to be about rams!!! ;)

Sorry Ottar... back to you :)
 
O

old.Ozird Rinfut

Guest
Very good post Ottar!

Just hope someone remembers it all :)
 
O

Ottar

Guest
> Yup, we said on alliance chat 3 times we had one but
> didnt have anyone who could take the beating to
> assemble it. No one seemed remotely interested.

Thats another thing about rams. If a door can be taken down without one, like outer doors of keeps or inner doors that don't have PBAoE casters behind them, it's better to save the rams and take them back to yer vaults. Unused ram can prove very useful later, when one really IS essential to a successful siege.

After all, these things do cost 50g per pop. At some stage, people do have surplus money on their hands. Later, when door repairs and siege equippment become daily expenses, going through more gold that can be easily farmed comes very easy.

Just spent about 1.5 - 2 hours killing greens. Made a bit less than 100g. Taking a unused ram back to vault makes me quite understandably happy these days ;)

Ottar
 
C

carrot head

Guest
OK some questions

Are player crafted Ram bits better than npc ones (like all other items)

If so what skills do ppl need to make them

If so do we have any one who can produce them so we can have some UBER rams ???

and finaly

What about other siege equipment.

:)

O and PS
Aint doors open to spell damage from the next pach or somthing??
 
O

Ottar

Guest
> Are player crafted Ram bits better than npc ones

Nope. Pieces of siege weaponry do not have quality, therefore player crafted ones cant have higher quality. Basically, there is no difference.

> If so what skills do ppl need to make them

Honestly, I don’t remember. Each of the three ram pieces needed 500 skill in a different craft. Point is, getting rams from merchant keeps is just do much easier than finding crafters, placing orders, etc. Provided one’s realm has access to a merchant keep of course.

> If so do we have any one who can produce them so we can have
> some UBER rams ???

Yes, we have 500+ skill crafters in about every craft there is. However, rams from player crafted pieces would in no way be more uber than them ordinary ones.

> What about other siege equipment.

Scorpions.

Usable against enemy players and ather siege pieces. Has small area of effect. In battle.. really, I haven’t yet seen a plausible use for them. Hassle with getting them to place is way out of balance with their capacity of yielding meaningful damage. Building one in some silly place might have some enterteinment value.

Catapults.

AoE damage, can fire through (over) keep walls. After building one and trying to shot spiders with it as well as being shot at by alb/hib catapults..Well, 3-4 cats firing at you will actually do moderate damage, provided you are AFK or just let them shoot at you for long period of time out of boredom.

If you have plenty of cash and happen to be defending a merchant keep, meaning NPC that sells the stuff is just few steps away, then you might try one out. Ortherwise, there is no real use. Cats can also shoot at doors but rams are much better at it, easier to carrry, do not require ammo and are less expensive.

Ottar
 
B

Belsameth

Guest
Player crafted rams are cheaper though, esp the high quality ones
 
O

Ottar

Guest
> Player crafted rams are cheaper though, esp the high quality ones

What do you mean higher quality ones? No siege part has any quality as such. There are three kinds of siege pieces - rams, ballistaes and catapults. Each three have their own recepie, that is a list of parts needed to build one. And lots of wood.

Each kind of siege weapon has levels. For rams its a small ram, medium ram and siege ram. All these rams use the same parts. Only difference is that lowest recepie uses elmwood, medium one uses some other wood and highest one uses ironwood. Same thing with ballistaes and catapults.

Generally, low level siege equippment is only good for practice. To do any amount of real damage, one should use ironwood siege weapons.

Player crafted siege parts are cheaper, true. But the difference is not all that much. Most of the cost of a siege ram is wood. You can probably save about 5 g or so per ram by buying player crafted parts.

Ottar
 
D

Dewey

Guest
Damn, I was searching through the old pages and I found this gem, whats a quality post like this doing on the second page????. BUMP!!! there problem solved :clap: :clap: :clap:
 
J

Jupitus

Guest
Aye - it's an excellent post by Ottar - but don't you all wonder where all his intelligence comes from? I'll tell you - He's not a middie, he's a level 50 infiltrator from Albion trying out the new 'disguise' skill!!!

:p

Jup.
 
D

Dewey

Guest
heh, I notice Ottar is staying quiet..... You must be right!!!!!!! :twak: :twak: :eek6: :whip:
 
R

Roo Stercogburn

Guest
Something that is probably worth knowing is who can build the various crafter components to save a visit to merchant keep. We did siege training a few nights ago and set up a catapult at the Tomtes, bombed them into oblivion (well mostly, someone hit the hut behind us, but thats a different story). The main hassle was getting the bits from merchant keeps if we couldn't make all the components.
Not important for large guilds with crafters but for smaller ones that want to help its a good thing. Small guilds can buy the crafter made components and store them for a few G, rather than trekking to frontier areas to get them.

It might be worth crafters willing to help other guilds with these things letting all know?

If so, I'll get the ball rolling... I can do tailoring components. This means Arm Cushions for catapults, swing arms, etc.

PM in game, guilds that need. Also would appreciate in turn, crafters PMing me, that can help. 2 way street all ;)

Suggest also, larger guilds with more funds help, cuz lets face it vault space is at a premium, not just craft cost, and smaller guilds with less items clogging up vaults can help big style there :)

You want to be part of something bigger... play your part :)
 
S

Sarnat

Guest
Ballistae can shoot at doors also, from a range. Catapults can not.
 
H

Hufner

Guest
Well, one thing that Ottar here seems to forget is that there are 3 qualities to the 3 types of siege-weapons...
Iron
Steel
Alloy

Who here have trouble guessing what this refers to?

I'll explain later, perhaps :p
 
O

Ottar

Guest
> Ballistae can shoot at doors also, from a range. Catapults can not.

Actually, Im reasonably sure it’s the other way around. The so called ”official” guide to siege weaponry is incorrect. Much better information can be obtained at http://daoc.djswifty.com/siege_weapon_FAQ.php

> there are 3 qualities to the 3 types of siege-weapons... Iron Steel Alloy

Incorrect. The metal used for components is the same for all ”qualities” of siege weaponry. That is, small ram, ram and siege ram use all the same components. The only difference is type of wood used. Elmwood for small rams, Oak for rams and Ironwood for siege rams. Since in actual battle, it makes little sense to use anything but ironwood siege weaponry, we can safely forget about the first two ”quality levels”.

> he's a level 50 infiltrator from Albion

Nope, not from Albion. On the other hand, I do have my mind set on a nice piece of land near Ludlow once we mids figure out how to use all this siege weaponry to get us through your realm gates.. ;)

Ottar
 
R

rynnor

Guest
Attacking Rams?

While we are on the topic of Rams does anyone know what level you have to be to attack the Rams sucessfully in melee?
 
F

Fightersuntzu

Guest
*must....reveal.....information......to....stupid.....trolls.....* :)

Alright- Ballistae can shoot at doors and damage them because of their targetting system(reg. targetting select, LOS only). Catapults can shoot behind doors because of *their* targetting system(non-LOS GT), but the door should not be damaged as far as i know.
 
M

milithiel

Guest
also you can get siege parts off certain mobs in frontier, think it is only a swing harness thing though.
 
K

krill-nyd

Guest
To help the 'bump' and add some info so it is in the thread (so I can say 'go read the thread' to people) two things I can't see already.

The last patch halved the wood needed, so only 300 to make a ram.

And, you have to be 300+ in woodwork to repair a ram, though I don't think you need any wood in your inventory to be able to do it. Repairing rams at least may be a bit of a red herring, I haven't seen any rams go much below 70% before the door is battered down. However, I guess if everyone got killed or beaten back from a door and you then managed to fight your way back to the door and the ram had not been destroyed, then repairing would be useful. Not sure if this is going to happen too often though. Anyone found it useful to repair a ram? I can see a catapult or ballistae might be used for longer, but a ram?
 
F

froler

Guest
Originally posted by krill-nyd

And, you have to be 300+ in woodwork to repair a ram, though I don't think you need any wood in your inventory to be able to do it. Repairing rams at least may be a bit of a red herring, I haven't seen any rams go much below 70% before the door is battered down. However, I guess if everyone got killed or beaten back from a door and you then managed to fight your way back to the door and the ram had not been destroyed, then repairing would be useful. Not sure if this is going to happen too often though. Anyone found it useful to repair a ram? I can see a catapult or ballistae might be used for longer, but a ram?

got 200 woodwork, repair rams all the time.

And yes, repairing a ram at a hib defence is very important.

gj on the post Ottar, but of course, i knew all that stuff since before.. :m00: :clap: :m00: :clap:
 
K

krill-nyd

Guest
Oh oh, read the 300+ woodwork figure somewhere, but can't remember where. Glad to know it's less.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom