Siege ammo 1.55a report

[Roalith]

Siege Report 1.55a New Ammo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The new ammo:
Test conducted by dueling against a 50th chainwearer (all damage is before resists).

Grape shot: 75 average
Radius seemed to be 450+, possibly as high as 500.

Ball of Ice: 300 average, standard radius

Bullet: 400 average, didn't check radius.

Standard Catapult Stone: 300 average

Damage Bug:
Fouund a bug where damage did not occur at all some times. The effect would go off but no damage prints, no damage done, and no resist message for either target or operator.

Realm Points and Siege:
Confirmed that siege weapons are giving RPs. Killed a volunteer enemy for standard RP plus the new XP and included a claimed keep bonus. XP was standard even con yellow with no camp or group bonus.

And in the strange but true department:

[21:51:53] The trebuchet is turning to your target.
[21:51:58] Your trebuchet is now aimed and ready to fire!
[21:51:59] You fire the trebuchet!
[21:52:01] You hit Zarbix for 214 (-75) damage!
[21:52:02] You prepare the trebuchet for firing. (30.0s until armed)
[21:52:08] @@You say, "That was ice"
[21:52:26] @@You say, "This is stone"
[21:52:32] The trebuchet can't be loaded yet!
[21:52:32] Your trebuchet is now armed!
[21:52:35] You begin loading catapult stone into the trebuchet.
[21:52:4 Your trebuchet is now loaded and ready to fire!
[21:52:41] You fire the trebuchet!
[21:52:43] You prepare the trebuchet for firing. (30.0s until armed)
[21:52:43] You hit Zarbix for 280 (-12) damage!
[21:52:55] You target [Zarbix]
[21:52:55] You examine Zarbix. He is a member of an enemy realm!
[21:53:06] @@You say, "This is bullet"
[21:53:13] Your trebuchet is now armed!
[21:53:13] You begin loading bullet into the trebuchet.
[21:53:18] Your trebuchet is now loaded and ready to fire!
[21:53:2 You fire the trebuchet!
[21:53:21] You hit Zarbix for 1647 (-140) damage!
[21:53:21] You get 943 realm points!
[21:53:21] You get 73 bounty points!
[21:53:21] You get 41,943,040 experience points!
[21:53:21] You earn 4,194,304 outpost bonus experience!

This is a sitting naked 50th Theurgist. With his armor on and standing he was healing faster than I could damage him.

 

[Roalith]

[21:53:2 You fire the trebuchet!
[21:53:21] You hit Zarbix for 1647 (-140) damage!

GIVF NEW SIEGE AMMO NOW!

 

[Silent Shadow]

lol

 

[Garaen]

I was in keltoi yesterday helping some guildies level. I took off all my armor and pulled a banisher room and let them pick of the mobs (with the help of a level 50 wiz) when i was standing i wasnt hit once, but as soon as i sat down i was getting hit for 20 every time (in my epic armor) and 100 a pop without my epic armor. As soon as i stood they couldnt hit me again.

 

[Pixie.Pebr]

So if you plan on using a catapult on Epic Armor wearers, take the catapult and ammo to an Enchanter first

 

[Col|]

I personally think that siege equipment is an under utilised part of the game, ok rams get made and used frequently, but the rest is hardly ever touched. I remember a while back when Alb had all 3 strength relics, and Mids came to get em, the guild I was in then had a Trebuchet waiting for them, was great fun, hurling rocks at em and seeing the blast effect go off. I know Mythics strike team are meant to be looking at increasing the applications for such items, but only thing I've seen so far, are the different types of ammo and thats about it. Bit of a shame really, since the game is set in a time when siege engines were used a fair amount. Wouldnt mind seeing something like scaling ladders, so tanks can get over the wall, or say, boiling oil to pour on those tanks hacking at the door, would certainly give those tanks inside a keep something to do instead of just sitting in the courtyard waiting for the gates to be breached. Oh well, we can but hope.

 

[Sharma]

Originally posted by Roalith

[21:53:21] You hit Zarbix for 1647 (-140) damage!

NERF TRUBUCHETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Roalith]

They're upping the damage on catapult/ballista shots, Carn - it's in one of the later 1.55 patch notes.

 

[Col|]

Originally posted by Roalith
They're upping the damage on catapult/ballista shots, Carn - it's in one of the later 1.55 patch notes.

Which is a good thing, but its not like they are going to be used that much really, after all, who wants to lug all the parts and ammo around, just to take a some pot shots at keep defenders, or, leave a char logged in say Excal, with all the parts and ammo on it in the event someone decides to have a go at your relics.
This was the idea behind Mythics strike team, to look at and intice people to use the siege gear more, but as usual, instead of coming up with something, they just tweak the game dynamics. As in my earlier post, I think something like a siege ladder would be a great idea. Think about it, what do tanks do when trying to take a keep, they hack at a wooden door til it opens, wouldn't it be more fun to make something that allows said tanks to climb up the walls? Too many times I've seen people attacking doors keep attacking the same one even when it opens, cos they've gone afk, know ing that they have the time to do so.
I also think the ladder thing would make it a bit more exciting for the defenders too, think about it, at the moment, the only ones who can climb into a keep are assassins, all well and good, but alot of the time, when a keep is defended, all they do it PA the first person they come across and then jump over the wall, because they know if they stay there, they will more than likely get nuked/mobbed.
Now imagine if the attackers had several scaling ladders at various points along the walls, if its a big enough attacking force, you could swarm up them ladders and invade the keep, making the defence that much harder and possibly more exciting. As Mythic like to balance the game (heh ) keep defenders could have along with them, as I said in the earlier post, pots of boiling oil or large stones to drop from the battlements, this to a degree would alleviate the attackers ability to get up them ladders.

I don't know how other tanks feel about this, but I am not a fan of whacking a keep door down, especially when its defended, mainly because it's so easy for casters, talking PBAE and now GTAE, to spam their spells on the door and nuke said tanks into oblivion. Wouldn't it be more fun and exciting having to keep an eye out behind you just in case some cocky sod builds a scaling ladder at the back of the keep to sneak in? It also might stop the RP farming in keep defenses too. As it stands at the moment, 2-3 full groups can easily hold off double that amount from taking a keep, if they do it right.

'Scuse the long post, just I really do believe that the siege stuff, apart from rams, is the most underrated part of this game, which is a shame, since in the period this game is set, all types of siege gear was used to take a keep, not just rams :/

 

[Garaen]

The seige ladders sound interesting

The main reason i dont use seige is because of the cost and weight. Theres nothing worse than spending a few hundred gold on a trebuche or catapult and spreading it across 3 or 4 people, By the time we reach the destination the people have usually logged, or it takes 10 or 15 minutes to get the parts on one person.

It would be interesting to try on americas equivalent or Gorre, cutting down the cost of seige by at least 1/2 maybe 3/4, and doing the same with the weight. I am not sure if this would work or not, but just imagen emain, trebuches and catapults being used to rid MG campers, or to assist in keep taking

 

[Col|]

Yes it's true, trebuchets are a pain, although you can get the parts relatively cheaply from crafters, the wood can get a bit expensive and having to have a merchant keep at hand to buy the ammo is a real pain. What might make people take trebs etc out more would be the ability to dismantle it as well as put it together. Ok, again, the weight thing and parts distribution would be the main sticking points, with ammo coming a close second, but imagine if you come to a camped MG, with your trebuchet you could easily pelt a few stones over it and nuke the campers HP down so they either have to run off, or charge through to kill the operator, it would also gives those on your side the incentive to charge through the doors en masse, instead of in dribs and drabs to get picked off. Then, once the trebs job is done, the maker just hits the dismantle button and that nasty green craft bar creeps along to show he is dismantling said treb, then he can dish out the parts and wood to whoever was carrying it, perhaps put in a small amount of wood loss, not much or it would never be used as you would have to carry more wood than is needed to make the trebuchet in the first place, hence defeating the object of making trebuchets more attractive to use.

Hmmm, probably won't get any reply, but I might email Mythic with some of these ideas, I'm sure they have thought of them already, but one never knows.

 

[Gabrial]

Anyone know what sort of range these suckers have compared to say a longbow?

 

[Flimgoblin]

1500-2500 I heard...

so from nuke range to >nearsight range

siege ladders would be cool...

but allow two handed weapon-wielders to tip them back over (a bonus to polearms/celtic spear and maybe warriors?)

 

[Col|]

Originally posted by Gabrial
Anyone know what sort of range these suckers have compared to say a longbow?

Not sure, but I would think a greater range, but that isn't the main selling point of a trebuchet, the main use for it is to hit more than one target at a time, since it is ground targetted, you just need a few enemies bunched together when you ready to fire and bingo, hit for 1k+ in the middle of the blast radius. The main drawback is, a trebuchet takes a good 2-3 minutes to ready to fire and since most enemies dont stand still for long, by the time you are ready to shoot the spot where you aimed, most times no enemies are in that spot anymore. The only real use for these pieces of siege gear, are either at a MG bottleneck, or as i said before, if some enemies are coming to your relic keep, since they will have to have alot of people bashing down the doors, they would be the perfect targets, since they will be standing in one area for a fair time, certainly enough for a good 3-4 trebuchet shots per door.

 

[Col|]

Originally posted by Fingoniel
siege ladders would be cool...

but allow two handed weapon-wielders to tip them back over (a bonus to polearms/celtic spear and maybe warriors?)

Yeah, I thought of that too, some way to push the ladders over and enemies would take some falling damage. It would give the main tanks something to do, instead of sitting about waiting, or running around the keep and making a target of themselves for AE casters, I know when I'm on keep defence, I just end up leeching RPs off the casters, or rezzing the dead with gimp rez.
But I also think the oil/stones thing would be good too, so those who dont really have any decent form of ranged attack would also have something to do. The stones could be bought at say either the merchant keep or capital city and the oil could be part of say, the alchemists contribution to siegecraft along with say a metal/wooden tub from say an armorcrafter. The ladder could be made from parts off a fletcher, who can fashion the rungs etc and a tailor who can make the twine to bind the rungs onto the ladder shafts, you could possibly add weapon crafter who fashions the lader shafts, but maybe that could also come under fletching, which doesn't have much in the way of siege items to make.

 

[kreig]

Seige Ladders

I think seige ladders would be a bad idea. Mainly because u could take keeps and relic keeps in a very fast time. Just imagine 20 or so tanks waiting at each realm keep with ladders. <Whistle blows> 20 tanks run in and kill the lord. Now atm it can be done with assasin classes, but mustering enough for 1 keep take isnt easy, but allowing all classes primarily to bypass a keeps walls would be a big mistake. In such a case a relic keep could be had in a mere few mins. It also takes the fun out of Supperior attacking force Vs a small grp of defenders.

I think a greater selection and use for seige/war machines should be available perhaps siege towers (Slightly different in ladders, ie they would cost lots and need massises of ppl to operate ie manuvering, pulling etc)

 

[Sharma]

thought for the day:

"why do we use all this seige equipment when i think it would be nicer to knock politely and ask for the key..."

 

[Col|]

Re: Seige Ladders

Originally posted by kreig
I think seige ladders would be a bad idea. Mainly because u could take keeps and relic keeps in a very fast time. Just imagine 20 or so tanks waiting at each realm keep with ladders. <Whistle blows> 20 tanks run in and kill the lord. Now atm it can be done with assasin classes, but mustering enough for 1 keep take isnt easy, but allowing all classes primarily to bypass a keeps walls would be a big mistake. In such a case a relic keep could be had in a mere few mins. It also takes the fun out of Supperior attacking force Vs a small grp of defenders.

I think a greater selection and use for seige/war machines should be available perhaps siege towers (Slightly different in ladders, ie they would cost lots and need massises of ppl to operate ie manuvering, pulling etc)

The thing about the ladders is, they would be light and portable, yes, it would bypass the keep doors, which in medievil times were probably the biggest killing ground in siege warfare. If you've been in an attempt at taking a defended keep, you would see the sense in having an alternate way in, theres nothing worse than being spammed with caster nukes while trying to take the door down and as you said, trying to get enough Infs to kill those inside including the lord is very hard, whereas, tanks are quite numerous and I think would find it fun to have a go at scaling walls every now and then.
Bare in mind, I'm not talking about retaking your own keeps after another realm has taken them to open DF, there wouldn't be much point to the ladders then, since most doors are usually left at level 1 and easily beaten down.

Your other point about a relic being taken in a few minutes is a bit optimistic, even if the first 2 doors were left alone, you've still got the third inner door to bash down, not to mention the uber guards, which if done right you can keep down, but also the new casters along the battlements too would need to be removed. Then you would have to get the ram parts to the ram builders and get them to make them, then whats left of your raid force would mop up any guards that pop.

Yes it would make things alot harder for a small force to hold off a large one with the ladders, but if they handle it properly it can be done, at the moment, if a small group defends, all that happens is they just farm RPs til the last door is almost down then go camp the Lord room, not much fun for those trying to retake the keep really. That is why I mentioned the defenders siege equipment possibilities too, climbing up a ladder only to be confronted by someone with a large pot of boiling oil that would do a fair amount of heat damage wouldn't be very nice.
Not only that, but Fin came up with a nice idea where the main tanks get the oppurtunity to push the ladders off the wall.

As for the siege tower, yes, its a good idea in principle, but as with all siege gear at the moment, apart from rams, it wouldn't get used, mainly because it would probably take a monumental amount of wood, which would need to be spread over lots of people. Not only that, but with Mythics insistance on balance you would also have to come up with a way to counter the siege tower. Only thing I can think of off the top of my head, would be perhaps an Alchemist/SC made explosive device of some sort, or maybe wizard class or realm equivalent being able to do damage to it.