Sidi raid block-announcements

[Flimgoblin]

Should we have some sort of system to share time out better? Tilda's week-block-booking and AoP's every-thursday-for-a-month bookings kinda exclude other raids not arranged a month in advance...

(at least raids run by people who care about not disrupting other raids)

So, for the sake of this argument assume that you respect other people being in Sidi - what limits if any should be placed on advanced "booking"
(since for the purposes of people that respect it it's effectively a booking, if you don't respect it then go whine in another thread this is purely for the people that actually give a damn)

Right enough waffle...

Should we ask people not to "book" more than 2 weeks in advance? or more than 2 nights at once?

 

[Jiggs]

burn them and toast marshmallows over their cinders!!!

 

[Bleri McThrust]

Originally posted by Flimgoblin
Should we ask people not to "book" more than 2 weeks in advance? or more than 2 nights at once?

YES

Dont have time to expand much more than ...... Who knows what a person is doing in a months time anyways ? Or ..... asking for it for a week means very little opportunity for any off the cuff raid.

 

[old.Ramas]

Personally I don't think anyone has done anything extreme enough that I would mind seeing it repeated.

Block announcements for week-day mornings is different to block announcing every Saturday afternoon for the next 6 months for instance.

And limits on how far forward people book are pointless. If there is demand for slots to fill 2 months out, and we ask people to only announce 2 weeks out, then you have 'who can post first' contests, and you give advantages to those willing to imtimidate others out of posting by declaring their intention ahead of time - before long you need an 'intrention to announce' announcement thread etc.

It's fine as it is imo.

Both announcement threads have already prevented any number of raid clashes, and both threads have plenty of space for people to add more raids in the next fortnight. So I don't really see any issues for now.

 

[bob007]

I would prefer a limit of a single booking per time, Once your booked raid is over, Book a new 1. This wouldn't have much effect on the regular guilds that hunt. It just gives everyone a fair chance to partake in a sidi raid.

As it is now, Its he who books as much as he can get away with before anyone else. As said thursday is out for a month now due to 1 single booking. If it carries on escalating like this, Whats wrong with someone just saying "I'll book every 2nd sunday from this date to this date." For now its a little unfair and poeple fell the need to scramble for a place before someone else posts a booking for the next 4 weeks.

I believe there should be no set delay on when you going IE, Booking ahead. At KoP we go once a month as an alliance. So we always book 1 month ahead, But we limit this to 1 booking, So as not to have a long list of KoP invite raids streaming down the page.

With this said tho, Theres always work arounds anyway. KoP could book its single raid 1 month in advance, Another alliance member could book another 1 and so. But i feel something needs to be done to limit the "bookings in Advance" Coz even die hards for this sheet like me are feeling its being abused to the point were am even tempted to start focus pulling it just for the chance to get some items.

In short, Limit the booking to 1 per Alliance. Once that hunt is done, That alliance can book a new raid.

Poeple will get round it, But its a start.

 

[Flimgoblin]

it's the whole-week-at-once and the every-thursday aspect of it I'm not so keen on - just wondering what everyone else thinks...


e.g. a lot of different people have been booking thursday raids in the past, I know a lot of guilds have trouble getting everyone online for a particular night...

I've avoided booking every sunday till the end of time for the fellowship because I think it'd be rude (and end up with people just ignoring it and going there anyway)

I think you're right that time-limits would be a bad idea, maybe we should just ask people to be a bit more considerate - book every second week, or every second day, take it thursday one week, wednesday the next.

 

[Flimgoblin]

If we were to go with that I'd say one per organiser - an HG guild raid is different from a Fellowship raid for example..

but that said we shouldn't have everyone in an 8-man focus pulling group booking a different day each

One per raid-group sounds like a good scheme, you don't have the place completely booked in advance but you also don't have the "rush to book" that we could get with a simple time-limit.

I think if we go with that we can probably work out when someone's taking the piss (and organising 3 of the same raid just with different names)

 

[old.Ramas]

Just looking at the sheet again, yeah, maybe the AoP thing is borderline.

But if someone really wants to do something like that, we can't stop them, they'd just get a guildies to announce the second and subsequent weeks, and I don't think we can reasonably start asking people restrict it to one per raid group since that can't be tracked in a transparent and equal manner. So you give the advantage to those willing to lie.

And while the sheet still typically has several evenings free over the following fortnight, personally I'm not too worried.

If so many people wanted to raid that we were at a point where the slots were not available, then it's worth looking at again.

 

[bob007]

I would even go as far as making 2 days clear of any booking at all. Leaving these 2 days clear of "booked" raids would give the spare of the moment groups and focus groups a clear 48+ hours to go in a farm the place without fear of the "I booked sidi" whine. This is about 5 respawns of said tomb, And as long as the first 1's in Kill the first keylord to start the timer as fast as they can, Everyone who is unable to amass a large group of poeple to take it on in the alotted 8 hours respawn can go and have a crack at a few mobs/lords. Thus making more poeple happy.

Tho maybe thats for a new topic.

 

[pbaz]

The very nature of the "booking" or "announcement" threads would be destroyed if we started placing qualifications or caveats on how far in advance or how frequently people can give notice.

As we've said all along, this is about respect for your realm-mates. I'd simply ask that those people who clearly care enough about the rest of their realm to use these announcement threads apply some common sense to their posts.

Sure, announcing an invite-only raid every (insert day of the week here) for the next month/two-months/year/etc might seem (to some) inconsiderate or greedy... But the purpose of the announcement sheet is not to solve these softer, political issues! The sole purpose of the sheet is to provide a space where people can see who is planning what. If you see a problem from these sheets (for example, your guild can only ever get the numbers needed for Sidi online each Tuesday and Sidi has been block-booked by one guild every Tuesday for the next year) that problem needs to be solved by dialog. This is what GM's are for! You can see who is planning these raids from the announcement sheets, but any problems or conflicts need to be resolved by people talking to each other.

I'm opposed to expanding the remit of the booking sheets beyond simply using them as an announcement vehicle. Let people use the space to make announcements. Let them "book" multiple weeks if they are certain they will get the numbers week-in, week-out. Let them post a retraction the very first week they have to cancel their raid due to lack of numbers. In short, let people "announce" whatever their genuine plans are. From this list of announcements, guild GM's and Officers know exactly who to speak to if they want to resolve a conflict or clash.

If we place rules on how people use the announcement sheets we make it less likely that people will announce their full plans or intentions. Under the current system there is no need to hide your intentions - and that's exactly what we want.

All of this is, as ever, imho.

 

[Flimgoblin]

this is good btw point of this post isn't to say "DAMN YOU FOR SAYING WHAT YOU'RE DOING!" it's to stimulate a discussion.

 

[mawina_HB]

Bob and Pbaz (among others) have good points:

1) Schedule several ( I would say 2-3) nigths a week that cant be booked.

2) We cant set up rules for how often and how long in advance ppl can book. They can always be circumvented. Those who gain something from the booking should not push it. IMO 4 bookings is pushing it way over the line. AoP please consider this.

mawina
Herfølge Boldklub

 

[acei]

Once every fortnight would be acceptable... everyday is extremely unacceptable... once a week might sound ok for a while.. but there's only 7 days in a week so once a week is also unacceptable unless their raid is for the entire realm.

 

[Flimgoblin]

I think I agree in that once per <time limit> won't work.

One booking on the calendar at a time could work - but again it's down to people being honest.

 

[Kagato.]

As some said above, book 1 event at a time, rather then booking that day every week, so 1 person/guild cannot book a 2nd event till they have had the first one.

This would give anyone else a chance to book that day if they wanted it yet is still fair to the other bookers.

 

[Tranquil-]

Book 1 event at a time. Finish it and then book another one.

 

[-frostor-]

1 week in front

 

[old.Kian]

How about one CONFIRMED booking, plus as many provisionals (which can be bumped by confirmed bookings) as people want? The point of the AoP blook booking is that there's been an AoP raid every Thursday for a number of weeks now and it saves having to do a new booking post every week.

So... AoP would have next Thursday (30th Oct) booked, and Thursdays thereafter pencilled in. If at some point before that raid someone who didn't already have a booking came along and asked for Thursday 6th November, for example - he'd get the spot and the AoP raid gets bumped. Once Thursday 30th is past, the next AoP raid on the calendar becomes their confirmed booking.

Anyone taking the piss by putting in a provisional booking for every day should be radished. Repeatedly.

Nothing much you can do about muppets who get their mates to make extra bookings for them, except to expose and ridicule them in these public forums if they're caught.

DISCLAIMER - yes, I'm a member of Avengers of Pendragon but am not speaking on behalf of the guild, merely making what seems to me a sensible suggestion irrespective of the guilds concerned

 

[pbaz]

Originally posted by old.Kian
The point of the AoP blook booking is that there's been an AoP raid every Thursday for a number of weeks now and it saves having to do a new booking post every week.

So... AoP would have next Thursday (30th Oct) booked, and Thursdays thereafter pencilled in. If at some point before that raid someone who didn't already have a booking came along and asked for Thursday 6th November, for example - he'd get the spot and the AoP raid gets bumped. Once Thursday 30th is past, the next AoP raid on the calendar becomes their confirmed booking.

Although I note your disclaimer at the end not to speak on behalf of the AoP GM's/Officers, this is exactly what I would expect from them, too.

Anyone here who is considerate enough to use the announcement sheets will also be reasonable enough to participate in dialog with another guild's GM/Officers to find a solution to clashes.

I don't doubt for one second that if someone spoke to the AoP GM's and asked for that 4th Thursday the AoP guys would absolutely let you go ahead and take that spot.

The whole principal of the announcement sheets is based 100% around respect, trust and honesty. At present, when we have no "rules" around how often or how far in advance you can pencil in a raid people have zero motivation to lie, cheat or in any way hide their intentions to conduct a raid. If you impose rules or regulations, the situation will arise where people hide their intentions and the value of the announcement sheet crumbles.

Perhaps a note at the top of the announcement thread asking people to remember that if they block book multiple weeks at once that they be prepared to give up one of the block-booked slots should another person ask? I, personally, view even this as a bit unnecessary, because I know that problems can be solved through just PMing the relevant GM. Anything more draconian than simply asking people to be considerate towards their realm-mates will just lead to problems, confusion, cheating and, ultimately, the abandonment of the announcement sheets. And I repeat the assertion that the people who are using the announcement sheets have already flagged themselves as decent, respectful players who want to keep the rest of their realm informed. I'm convinced that dialog rather than regulation is the best solution.

 

[Tilda]

I think we need to draw a line between small sidi raids when nobody else does raids (ie morning) and booking a set day in the evening. I am sure that were my raids set in the evening there would have been huge protests

 

[Antedeluvian]

Originally posted by Tilda
I think we need to draw a line between small sidi raids when nobody else does raids (ie morning) and booking a set day in the evening. I am sure that were my raids set in the evening there would have been huge protests

Since the respawn is each 8 hours and your only-morning-when-nobody-else-go raids can piss people who want to raid at reasonable hours that afternoon...NO, you cant draw between raids.
IF you look your clock and at 10.00 AM o'clock you say: "ok guys, raid finished, lets make loot and thanks you for help me", then we can look your raids in a different manner, full stop.

 

[gunner440]

Originally posted by Antedeluvian
Since the respawn is each 8 hours and your only-morning-when-nobody-else-go raids can piss people who want to raid at reasonable hours that afternoon...NO, you cant draw between raids.
IF you look your clock and at 10.00 AM o'clock you say: "ok guys, raid finished, lets make loot and thanks you for help me", then we can look your raids in a different manner, full stop.

tilda is great and u whine too much


the raids run by tilda are early morning before half the ppl are even awake usually.. how can htey be a problem? its the ppl who raid between the evening and morning raids what should be shot in the nostrils and forced to bleed to death i r l

 

[Flimgoblin]

there are some problems - there's no guarantee that sidi won't repop in the middle of my raid this thursday - we're starting 10 hours after tilda's small raid, if he doesn't kill the named particularly quickly... we get a repop.

to be honest it'd be easier if he was doing his raid in the evening - he could kill the non-named and the first keylord we could do the rest of the dungeon.

But we're trying to resolve this, I've asked tilda to try and start earlier on the thursday morning - hopefully his group will be able to do that.