Question Should someone be locked up for this offense?

[tierk]

Saw this late tonight.....

BBC NEWS | UK | MP backing for 'Holocaust denier'

And it has got me thinking to ask peoples views on this matter. Should he be locked up or not for holding the views he has or not?

Is it an issue of freedom of speech or is he commiting a crime?

 

[Cadelin]

No

He didn't commit the crime in Germany and it wasn't a crime in the country he did it in.

 

[kirennia]

No way. Why should this be any different to an english person being arrested for having an abortion because it's illegal in other countries. He served the law of the country he resided in so there is absolutely no chance this should fly.

 

[old.Tohtori]

If i'm gonna go to jail for saying something like "it wasn't that bad", the world has gone squirrel bonkers sh*t-mad

 

[Billargh]

That Dorimor, he wasn't that bad.

 

[tris-]

if he didnt commit a crime where is the problem?

 

[Cadelin]

if he didnt commit a crime where is the problem?

Well its probably because the German authorities don't like him (as he is a holocaust denier).

Germany and the UK (as well as the rest of the EU) allow other member states to issue arrest warrants. That person will then be arrested and an extradition proceeding will take place. In this case the extradition won't happen but the individual concerned is unlikely to ever return to the EU which is probably exactly what the German authorities want.

 

[tierk]

It seems strange to me that in a society that fosters freedom of speech and expression people are getting locked up for expressing there points of view.

It should be a pretty simple, clear cut, case of proof that it has happened - the holocaust - with the wealth of material available proving it happend.

Why on earth would you want to lock them up for? This only makes it seem that they are being persecuted and gives the impression that there is actually something to hide.

 

[Iceforge]

Seeing how Germany is themselves refusing to hand over people to other countries in simuliar cases, I would say the UK should not hand him over.

He did not violate UK crime, which further means he shouldn't be handed over; Really, the internet is not bound by the laws of every country in the world and should never be.

While he is an unlikeable fellow if he did indeed do the crime he is being charged with in Germany, he is not a criminal in the UK so the UK should not even have arrested him.

BTW, for those curious, start of my post refers to the WW2 criminal Søren Kam that Denmark has requested handed over for the last 30 years for the murder of Berlingske Tidende's cheif editor (i think thats the translation of the title) back in 1943, but Germany is still refusing to hand him over as he has not violated their laws.

 

[Ezteq]

It seems strange to me that in a society that fosters freedom of speech and expression...

only if it is the same as theirs tbh, i have had several occasional where having a discussion with right on lefty liberals have turned in to right nasty buggers after seeing that i held a differing opinion to theirs.

I believe it is dangerous to censor peoples beliefs but then you could say that a pedophile has the belief/opinion that child molestation is a good thing, for example, look at some of the cults where they keep a hareem and children (and i consider anyone under the age of 16 to be a child) are sexually abused but the abusers say the children were willing participants and enjoyed it (and when i was at school i knew several girls who were sexually active at 12 they went out and sought such relatins, they were not being forced). Many murderers believe they were justified in their actions and members of the KKK all think they are right (just as any extreamist group), we (on the whole) do not agree with this and so condemn it.

Another example is the female circumcision that is performed as a matter of course in many countries, in the west we see this as barbarism and condemn it (actually we condemn most things) and the way I see it is that I do not agree with acts that force others in to something (female circumcision i don't have a problem with IF it is done on adult females with their knowledgable consent for example). A belief can not hurt someone on its own, you need people willing to act on that belief for it to do damage, insisting that the haulocaust did not take place or was not as bad as they made it out to be can not physically hurt anyone, I disagree with the opinion but i am not physically hurt or in any danger from it.

Believe what you want but don't use that belief to hurt others and don't try and force the beliefs on people who do not think the same way is a rather general feeling but it is how I feel abut these subjects and the moment you start arresting people for their thoughts that is when things turn dangerous (i'd be in the slammer like a shot).

 

[tris-]

well if he hasnt violated a UK crime he cant be trialled for it in the uk . im pretty sure that is one of the human rights?
dont know, i havent read it for about a year or so.

 

[Raven]

No he cant be and shouldn't be.

 

[Thadius]

Whats next, the Jewish population suing the Eygptian authorities and stacking a claim on the pyramids?

 

[Mey]

we should give him a truck load of cash! After all he believes something that not everyone believes, and that's what we do right?

 

[Hawkwind]

No, he should not be extradited from the UK and German Authorities should get a clue. You don't stop antisemitism by trying to lock them up. you do it through education and debate.


What's Germany so pissed off about anyway. Could understand Israel taking out court orders but Germany! Maybe they are pissed off because they did not finish the job with usual German efficiency!

 

[Azurus]

imo he should issue a statement-

'The accusation that i am anti-semitic is the biggest lie since the holocaust!'

 

[Gorbachioo]

Short answer - No.


But i have to ask. Is there anything anti-semitic about saying that the holocaust didnt happen? If i said that the crusades didnt happen would that make me islamophobic?


If the man thinks he has a case then he should be allowed to present it. Its called science.

 

[DocWolfe]

He prolly being arrested for inciting racial hatred rather than because he is denying the holocaust... though at the end of the day isn't being racist expressing free speech?

 

[Lamp]

There's a line between freedom of expression at the point at which its perceived to be offensive. Different people will want the line drawn in different places. Some people are deliberately provocative and harbour particular views and either don't care if they cause offence or go out to deliberately offend. Some people see racism at every corner and take offence where none was intended. All laws can do is to define as accurately as possible where that line is. Cross it and you're in trouble. Stay behind it and in the eyes of the law you're ok. You can't please everyone all of the time.

 

[chipper]

think lamp hit the nail on the head there tbh

saying the holocaust didnt happen well ok if thats what you believe your entitled to your oppinion the facts say otherwise but whatever your statement isnt really hurting ppl just ruffling a few feathers


saying hitler was justified is a different kettle of fish that is crossing the line because your insighting hatred and that is a crime in my eyes