Should modemers bother? (long)

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old.Qster

Guest
Ok, the fact that modem users are at a disadvantage in online games doesn't usually bother me. I can do quite well with my astro-ping, and am usually content with this fact.
However, today I was rudely awakened to the fact that modemers really *are* at a massive disadvantage under certain circumstances. This enlightening moment was brought about by a duel which took place between me and an lpb on one of the Barrysworld servers today. Actually, this was 5 duels - as I will explain momentarily. It is worth noting that today my connection was especially bad, with frequent redjacks and a ping which bounced between 190 and 500. This doesnt usually make a difference, as I have learned to compensate for lag in all its forms (as best as can be done).
This lpb was stood outside our base in medium armour, destroying stuff with his rocket launcher. I was wearing a light/energy loadout, and so decided to go put him out of his misery. He was watching my approach, I assumed this was his 'please dont kill me' play, but as I approached he whipped out a chaingun and shot me out of the sky using about 10 bullets total (he himself had also taken off). Angry at this defeat, I ran back outside to duel with him again, over and over this went. I would hit him with a disk each time, and while it was still cycling he would chaingun me out of the sky/floor/wherever. I had no way to kill him. With this ping sniping really was out of the question - and this guy knew how to move. Other armours would just be slower and let him chaingun me even more. So what can I do? (don't worry, this all has a point).
And the point is: As lpbs get better and better at this game, they will be able to use their constant, low ping to learn how to properly use each weapon. They are always aware of the true position of other players, and thier reaction times are not limited by propagation delays. In short, with practice, an lpb can learn to kill hpws with the chaingun/laser/anything and needs never miss. And they wont miss - as the low pingers of the community play more and more, their aim will simply get better and better - they have no limits placed upon their ability. All the time, hpws are putting up with a variable ping giving variable lead times, inaccurate information about player positions, and are given a minimum reaction dependant upon ping. Example for the last statement - sometimes I will come around a corner and see an enemy, I pull the trigger on my disk. Nothing happens.. the enemy shoots a disk at me, knocking me back around the corner.
Disk goes off against wall.
**Qster killed himself with disk, what a knob huh?
Even worse, there are times when I see an enemy land next to me, but I know that he will have taken off again before I could possibly let the server know that I want to fire at him. Better not do any flag D I suppose.

Basically, modem users have a limit placed on their maximum ability. If the community just becomes more and more elite (like T1), then all modem users will have a lower maximum ability than lpbs. So should we even bother to invest our time in the game at all?

This has perhaps gone on for a little too long, as you can probably tell, I am quite pissed off at the time of writing this. Tonight my connection has been especially bad, but this only exaggerated the already present disadvantages posed to the modem user.

Usually this is the part where lpbs come in saying "I used to own on a modem!". Well, I can own on a modem right now. But neither me, nor you could ever own against an lpb with the same skill.

Q
Not sure why he got so worked up about this.
 
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Scouse

Guest
Get cable ;b

I got pissed off with my modem - so £25/month saved me money on Dialup (like LOTS - I wouldn't play on those crappy 0800's) and got me a nice 512kdownstream/256up :)
 
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throdgrain

Guest
wise words scouse.
forget it m8,get cable.or isdn.or dsl.
or play counterstrike, dont matter what connection you got for that game:)
 
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old.Stabs

Guest
Geez, harsh, might as well tell him to go play Spades card game on internet gaming zone :)
 
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throdgrain

Guest
ya sorry.should have added or q2 , or..... well q2 or c.s. really.
with better conections so easy to get these days i'm suprised we still have these conversations.
never played tribes 2 tbh,(or tribes 1!) but from what ive read on these pages it's a pretty comp-intensive game .i wouldn't fancy q3 on a modem,so t2? christ dont bear thinking about!
maybe it goes some way to explain all the empty q3 servers and full c.s servers?
 
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old.Silo

Guest
Should modemers bother? (Short)

Doh! Carry on Qster! You are a great player and I think if you were to quit all those modemer peeps, with less skill than you [a hell of a lot of em], might as well give up too. If anyone can hack T2 on the end of 56k the Qmeister can :)

Silo
 
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old.Stabs

Guest
Yer right LPBs are to powerful, bring back the LPB limit!
 
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Embattle

Guest
No don't bother playing because you'll make it worse for LPBs with all your moaning :)
 
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old.D R E ad

Guest
I have never really had a major problem with using a modem. With UT and Tribes 2 I usually ping around 140 (sometimes lower) which is fine for me concidering how much more ADSL would cost. Most people don't know much about modems and think that because they get a crap ping with the shitty modem that came in thier PC all modems are crap. With a good modem, ISP and a bit of tweaking you would be suprised how good online gaming without a broadband connection can be.
The only game I have never really managed to get good results with is Q3, but then I never really got into it anyway. I'm not saying that ADSL/ISDN would not get me an advantage over modem users and it would be nice to play on non-UK servers, but with a bit of know how modem's offer better value for money in my opinion.
 
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old.PFunk

Guest
Qster man, consider yourself lucky. At least your game works. Any way, in my opinion, modem was designed to surf the net, to read...not to download 100 mb files or play online games. People with cable will always rape people with modem, so there isnt much you can do...only geting yourself cable will solve your problem. But it doesnt mean if you have low ping, you will be totaly invincible, other lpb's will be still slaughtering you.....it all depends on your skills realy.
But would it be cool if they would design servers where ping or number of people doesnt matter, where it will be always fast.....
 
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haggisman

Guest
Pfunk, it isnt the end of the world with a modem, you just need to tweak, tweak and tweak again. Your ISP should be fast eg BW dialup and you should have a nice hardware modem, and if you happen to have a 1.4ghz athlon with an isyncronis motherboard all the better. trust me modemers can beat LPB's especially on T2, you dont need to have a low ping to destroy the gens or cap the flag, though i can see a problem with the lag which could easily be fixed, maybe if you post some specs we can help?
 
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old.Zenith

Guest
Originally posted by throdgrain
... with better conections so easy to get these days i'm suprised we still have these conversations.

We still have these conversations because better connections are NOT so easy to get these days. My personal experience is that I am stuck with being a modemer for some time to come.
  • BT won't fit my phone exchange with ADSL
  • No cable in my area and none planned for the next 3 years at the very least
  • ISDN is just not worth the cost of installation and maintenance. The gains are not that great.
  • Satellite is a no-go for gaming online
Did I miss anything out?

therodgrain, I'm guessing that you live in a city area or an area that has cable. Consider that more than 40% of the UK population cannot get ADSL because they live in an area that is not supplied with an ADSL enabled exchange.

I'm not having a go at you yourself, but when you post a comment making a sweeping statement about comms in the UK, expect some feedback. :)
________________________________
-Zenith-
silly.gif

Providing ShockLance treatment since April 2001
Tribes 2 Admin @ Multiplay UK i-series LAN parties
Tribes 2 Admin @ Jolt.co.uk
 
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Perplex

Guest
Originally posted by Scouse
Get cable ;b

I got pissed off with my modem - so £25/month saved me money on Dialup (like LOTS - I wouldn't play on those crappy 0800's) and got me a nice 512kdownstream/256up :)


Errrr, 256 up on cable? Nope son, you're thinking of DSL. Make your mind up
 
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Milkshake

Guest
I'm a HPB.

I enjoy being an HPB.

Why? Cuz I like knowing that I can beat people, and not need to rely on Ping :)

I was quite a good T1 player :D
 
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Scouse

Guest
Nah Perplex. Got cable - telewest. 512 down/256 up. Even says so in the manual (not that I read such things) :D

Looks like they've sorted a few problems aswell - because in the last 2 days my bandwidth has doubled :)

Milkshake - QUITE a good T1 player?????? I thought you sucked
;)
 
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Perplex

Guest
Errrrr, no. TW (BY) only offer 512/128. NTL only offer 512/128. Both will be offering 1024/256 soon, but not yet. You don't have a 256 upload on TW/BY
 
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Perplex

Guest
go look at TW and BY website. They only offer 128 up. This is not up for debate, go look at the OFFICIAL sites.

Look here dunces
 
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old.Kurt_Angle

Guest
I give a toss about uploads, For reasons ill not go into;)

But to quote 'Zenith' 'ISDN just ain't worth it because the gains ain't that great'

Well no offence, maybe a couple of years ago that might have been true for Halflife, when i could ping no better than 100 ish, on barrysworld servers. But these days my isdn pings at a VERY stable 50, bottoms out at 40, rises up to 60. For sure in this day and age i wouldn't get isdn if there is another option, but if there ain't then, just about the only thing isdn is still good for is gamming. I get 80-100 ish pings when playing tribes 2, i can go a stable 30-40 when im playing quake 2, and it's allways around 50 in quake 3. Take your pick it's either a nasty unstable 56k or a stable isdn line.

Btw for the record my longest connection time is over 124 hrs without a reconnect on one channel on a bt 24/7:)

Also isdn is great if you have 2 boxes, like me. Downloading something and playing on the other computer online is banging. Im gona miss that when i get cable in a couple of weeks:(
 
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throdgrain

Guest
kurt u beat me to it m8 lol
i still use isdn and will at least until next year ,and to say its not much better than a modem is madness, and while it prolly is a bit more expensive than cable or dsl it still gives as you say 40-80 ping for gaming.my bill is NEVER over forty quid a month from bt,and that includes all the calls from all the lines in the house-not just my computer lines.u can use bt 0800 and thats what i get the pings above with.
maintenance?there aint none.in fact i must say my isdn has proved quite a lot more reliable than my m8's cable modem until recently.(im sure that will change as time goes on , mind).
so, in conclusion zenith m8 :) give it some thought,if its all u can get its still immesurably better than a modem.
:D
 
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old.Zenith

Guest
Fair enough on the replies about ISDN. I was quoting opinion at that time, not fact.

I suppose it's a case of "What you never have, you never miss". I've never been an LPB at home. The only time I've been an LPB is at LAN parties where it is a level playing field pingwise.

It's also economics for installing ISDN in my case. I'm not working atm (mature student type person) so I need to keep costs down. When I'm working then I might be able to look into ISDN. Hell, if I was working, I'd move to an area that had ADSL. There's a town 10 miles from me that has it. :)
________________________________
-Zenith-
silly.gif

Providing ShockLance treatment since April 2001
Tribes 2 Admin @ Multiplay UK i-series LAN parties
Tribes 2 Admin @ Jolt.co.uk
 
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Scouse

Guest
Kurt m8 - I dunno why you think you're going to miss sharing your internet connection over cable - mine works just fine over 2 computers and a lappy :)

As for it being 128 up - furry muff - I'm big enough to say I was wrong - but I'll tell you what - it feels a lot faster ;)
 
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old.Kurt_Angle

Guest
Yeah but thats the point, it ain't shared, it's 2 completely seperate setups. I know i can 'Share' my bandwith with a cable connection, but it just ain't the same :(
 
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Milkshake

Guest
Damn.

Your right Scouse.

I did suck :/

*Milkshake goes off to cry...
 
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old.Hobbes^^

Guest
In light of the recent LPB complaints Sierra have been recieving, the next patch will make the game play more equal for everyone by putting everyones ping to 500 for the whole game.
 
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old.Qster

Guest
Originally posted by Hobbes^^
In light of the recent LPB complaints Sierra have been recieving, the next patch will make the game play more equal for everyone by putting everyones ping to 500 for the whole game.


Cool, how do they plan to decrease my ping like that??

Q
 

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