Shineh graphics...

[FatBusinessman]

No doubt some of you will have seen the Source engine effects trailer (double linkage), and I suspect the majority of you are, like me, rather impressed by the shiny graphics (in both senses of the word).

Which will only work on DX9-compatible cards.

Which I don't have

I have but a meagre GeForce4 Ti4200 (Leadtek, for those of you who really want to know).

So, my question to the fount of all wisdom that is the Hardware Forums is this:
What will I be missing out on with my DX8.1-supporting (I believe) graphics card? I've found a couple of articles referring to "diffuse and reflective pixel shaders" being a new feature, but I don't know what that is in English.

Could someone please help enlighten me?

Cheers,

Fatteh.

 

[Embattle]

Not a lot in real world usage, first thing to remember is that in a graphics benchmark you are looking at either speed or the quality of the image/effects. In most actual games I would question whether you would be actually paying much attention to the graphics if you're playing an engrossing game or fast paced game.

I have a DX9 compatible card but as yet I don't think I've purchased a game that truly utilises DX9 functions.

 

[Cdr]

I think you do pay attention to the gfx - if HL2 looks like that shader demo on my PC, I'll certainly stop and take stock at what my eyes are seeing with my mouth open wide.

Also, HL2 is prob the first game to utilise the DX9 capabilities properly. But you do have other games on the horizon (like Lock On : Modern Air Combat) which also use DX9 to the best it can.

 

[smurkin]

Jedi Academy Demo is Dx9 ....I have to say it looks nice...only my old radeon 9800 doesnt support the dx9 fancy stuff ...I guess I'm in the same place as you, fbm. As half life 2 is here (nearly )...maybe time to upgrade.

 

[Deadmanwalking]

Originally posted by smurkin
Jedi Academy Demo is Dx9 ....I have to say it looks nice...only my old radeon 9800 doesnt support the dx9 fancy stuff ...I guess I'm in the same place as you, fbm. As half life 2 is here (nearly )...maybe time to upgrade.

erm.... old radeon 9800? Doesn't support DX9, need upgrade?

I am preying that was a typo.

 

[FatBusinessman]

Just what I was thinking, seeing as the 9800 is just about the newest consumer card on the market at the moment...

 

[smurkin]

Originally posted by Deadmanwalking.
erm.... old radeon 9800? Doesn't support DX9, need upgrade?

I am preying that was a typo.

You are, of course, correct...I was having a brain fart or wishfull thinking....radeon 8500 :bazbeer: sigh

/looks woefully at wallet full of moths :/

tbh....wish I'd taken the plunge a couple of months ago instead of waiting for hl2 to come out first

 

[FatBusinessman]

I shall wait until Half-Life 2 is released (I really hope it's in 2 weeks' time, but that hope is dwindling fast). If it looks significantly less shiny than in the trailers, I shall buy a new Radeon card (or ask Santa to get me one for Christmas... ). If it chugs like hell, I'll get a Radeon. Otherwise, I'll stick with what I have.

 

[Embattle]

Well as far as I know there hasn't even been any word on HL2 going gold as yet, so I have serious doubts that it will appear in shops etc in two weeks time

 

[FatBusinessman]

Exactly. Various people from Valve are still claiming the game is going to ship for September 30th though, so there's some hope...

 

[Embattle]

You can use the newly release Aquamark 3 to test DX9 functions if you want:

http://www.aquamark3.com/

 

[Ch3tan]

Yep that aqua mark things shows me how gorgeous gfx can look -at 5ps max :/

 

[Jonty]

Hi FatBusinessman

If you go to this Gamer's Depot page you'll find the same scene from Half-Life 2 rendered in: DirectX 8, 8.1 and 9. It's perhaps not the vividest of examples, but some differences are apparent. But there are, of course, some things to bare in mind.

Firstly, just because a card supports DirectX9 doesn't mean it can handle a full-blown game like Half-Life 2 in all it's glory (a GeForceFX 5200 Ultra may struggle, for example). Secondly, even cards that should be able to handle it (read nVidia, at the mo ) may struggle if not handled correctly.

Not very helpful, I know. If you are considering perchasing a new card, then nVidia will be releasing the NV38 (5950 Ultra) and a mainstream equivalent soon, and ATi should be updating their product line-up fairly soon too.

Kind Regards

Jonty

P.S. I'm not too au fait with pixel shaders, but essentially "diffuse and reflective pixel shaders" refers to special rendering instructions which developers can write, called pixel shaders, which alter the way a scene is rendered on a per pixel level. "Diffuse" and "Reflective" are two possible types of pixel shader which can alter the way a scene is rendered, enhancing the overall realism, by performing complex lighting calculations which accurately reflect how light is reflected or absorbed by an object, by taking into account the material of the object, the angle and intensity of the light source etc.

Doom3 shows off these pixel shaders and more in the 'shower scene' where the giant monster, I forget it's name, is eating the zombie. The swinging light above casts light and shadow over the scene dynamically, but as the light passes over the scene, the tiles, for example, carry a strong reflection and offer a lot of illumination, whereas the rough skin of the monster is not reflective at all, and as such appears dull and realistic (if you remember early CGI films, skin was always skinny; but with pixel shaders, amongst other things, the way in which objects are lit can be properly calculated. Pixel shaders can even be written to differentiate between, say, human skin and monster scales, so human skin might appear 'warmer' and more luminescent than the scales of a monster).

Not very technical, I know, but like I say, I couldn't honestly go into detail as to how it all works

Edit ~ Those screenies above perhaps aren't the best example after all

 

[leggy]

Originally posted by Jonty
Hi FatBusinessman

If you go to this Gamer's Depot page you'll find the same scene from Half-Life 2 rendered in: DirectX 8, 8.1 and 9.[/i]

I can barely see a difference there. There are some subtleties but nothing that warrants me spending 350 clams on a new gfx card. And for a single game at that. I'm personally not that concerned about how pretty the game will look anyway. As long as I get a frame rate that doesn't make my eyes and brain bleed, i'll be happy.

/edit

just saw your edit jonty

There is a better exaple of those screenies over at gamespot.com. There is also a dx9 demo available for download which shows some of the effects in HL2.

 

[FatBusinessman]

*bows down to the power of Jonty*

 

[Xavier]

Originally posted by FatBusinessman
Just what I was thinking, seeing as the 9800 is just about the newest consumer card on the market at the moment...

9800 - March 2003 (CeBit)
5900 - May 2003 (E3)

 

[Ch3tan]

Nice explanation Jonty, now I know what I will be spending my cash on next month

 

[Embattle]

Tom's Hardware had a play around with Aquamark 3 with some more interesting results. Two of the drivers for the FX5900 appear to either have a fault/cheat regarding quality of the image when compared to an older nVidia driver and the ATI drivers, this enables it to go faster.

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030918/index.html