server takeovers?

C

cosmos

Guest
Yes i find it perfectly acceptable. I do not find it acceptable that you play q3/cs Ch3tan
 
E

Embattle

Guest
You may but I'm positive that BW doesn't.
 
O

oldman

Guest
ooh this cock formed the cs clan i was in? pld trying to discredit somebody in a forum yuo've never posted in before :(((

yeti rocks, u dont
 
O

oldman

Guest
oi und also, in yuor cunning a-team gif thing below yuor name face looks like anne robinson :(
 
C

Ch3tan

Guest
Nice to see you bring game related rivarly nonsense into this. Thought you might actually have a reason as to why its a acceptable.

Cosmos did, well kind of, you just resort to attacks instantly.

Not discrediting him, i posted that in general forum, public servers are for the public not for clans to ride roughshot over.
 
O

old.Yeti

Guest
Hello!

Not sure how 8 people entering a server then one selfish person entering and refusing to drop, well aware that he was disrupting the game can be defined as a takeover.

Ah well.
I am pleased with the hate i have provoked :D
 
N

natrat

Guest
A similar incident happened yesterday; a Q3RA player was waiting for players on a public, when two clans entered the server and voted him off.

Public servers are just that, public. It is a clans responsiblity to ensure they are organised enough to arrange a server by booking one, or borrowing one or setting one up themselves. It doesn't even matter if the clans were there first. Public is public.

That said, I have no problem with a clan asking people joining a public they wish to play on to leave, but nobody is under any obligation to.

nath
 
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old.Yeti

Guest
That is NOT similar.
We were there first. Capische?

And I disagree with this:
It doesn't even matter if the clans were there first
Click to expand...

If 8 people want a game, 1 person should not be allowed to spoil it. Public or not.
 
N

natrat

Guest
You're entitled to your opinion of course, and you can enforce it when you are runing your own servers. I'm stating the way it is on Barrysworld publics.

cheers,
nath
 
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old.Dynamic

Guest
So what your saying natrat is that Barrysworld believe the player who joined the game after the other 8 people is entitled to sit there, abuse, and stop the server being usable while hes there?
Since that "was" what was happening :)
 
C

Ch3tan

Guest
Sorry as the toher htread has been closed as all and sundry
Anway Rcon.

You've mis understood me. Totally. Cosmos said people didnt know how to use rcon, I was not talking about the rcon for public servers. I wouldnt expect you to have that. In irc cosmos argued that clans could use pubbie because teh bookables were not configured properly.

Meatballs booked one and changed the settings, proved him wrong. Cosmos said, but not many players know how to use rcon.

This is my point, how hard is it to go learn rcon so you can use the bookables? The qw is hardly used so getting a last minute booking would be easy especially for a "organised bunch" like you.

So can people stop ininuating I belive you should all know the public rcon?

Make sense now?
 
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oldman

Guest
pretty lame to close the only interesting topic on the whole of the barrys forums
 
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old.Skum

Guest
Natty, I'm not sure how you can compare the Rocket Arena 3 system to the Quakeworld 4v4 system. Different games, different settings, completely different way of doing things. RA3 is designed for first-come, first-served. QW team games certainly aren't.

Also, I don't condone asking someone to leave if they're waiting for teams to arrive. If they're just sitting there on the off chance that people might turn up then they should leave, but that's because unlike other games, in QW you could be waiting for several weeks :)

The fact is, if you read the thread, the guy was wilfully disrupting the start of a game that was ready to go before he arrived. If you're condoning that, then you may as well allow teamkilling on CS public servers, because it's public and thats how some people want to play.
 
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old.Skum

Guest
Ch3tan - because it aint necessary for us to know RCON. We leave it to people who need it, most of the time there's a public server free for us to use.

Honestly, it isn't a problem for us to use public servers. All QWers agree on it, it's "other" people who disagree, and that seems... stupid.
 
C

Ch3tan

Guest
Yes well for my part I apologise for the other thread. I honestly didn't think it would turn into a massive flame war.

Anyway, I didnt know that yeti and his clans were in the server first, he never said that, i didnt find out till page 4 or something.

oldman, you were enjoying that argument weren't u?
 
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old.Yeti

Guest
I admit I didnt make that clear in my original complaint on irc, but did when i first found out about the thread (incidentally when it was on page 4).
That oversight on my behalf was basically because I went looking to grab sheeps attention, knowing he would understand the problem without me going into the details of joining times.
 
H

HangTime

Guest
originally i was gonna post this in the "definition of an arsehole" thread ( http://forums.barrysworld.com/showthread.php?threadid=12410 ), but it was closed while i was typing, gg :)

* * * WARNING * * * - Long post imminent

Well well well, the longest QW thread ive seen in a while :) Seems to me there are two key issues being raised here, the original debate over public servers and also a few QW types disgruntled with the way QW is done at BW. I'll briefly deal with the latter first;

WE HAVE POSTED, EMAILED, IRC'D, BEGGED, REQUESTED, AND PETITIONED requests for changes to BW QW servers for a very long time, back when CS was just a twinkle in Gooseman's eye. Some changes have of course been implemented, for which we are of course grateful; yet in the main there is a air of futility which surrounds such requests. Take a glance to your left and you will see I registered for this forum when it was setup, May 1999, and have been posting ever since. I am perfectly aware that far more people play newer games than QW, and so it's right they should get most attention as far as server upgrades go, but when we make some requests and 6 months+ down the line nothing at all has been done, you can surely understand how we become frustrated and lethargic. Even worse, changes are promised/agreed to by the liasons (CeNoBiTe) and server admins (Dr Chris, Deathace), yet STILL aren't implemented. Once again, I don't expect all suggestions to be carried out, nor do I expect instantaneous changes. Just that promises would be delivered on within a reasonable timescale (a month perhaps), and some portion of decision making power be in the hands of currently active players.

Anyway, that's not really the primary focus of this thread. The case described above is certainly not uncommon in QW, altho I've seen it far, far more often in other games. Let me start by explaining to those outside the QW community how the servers are used:

1) Clan games, be they official or just practice
2) Pickup teamgames, usually 4v4 but sometimes biggames (6v6+)
3) Casual duels, 2v2s etc

I should point out, that these are not the only public QW servers available. There are also duel/2v2 servers, FFA etc. If players want to just jump in and play, FFA is the place to go. As has been pointed out above by Skum and others, a newbie with 150+ ping and 30fps with no team binds will totally ruin the experience of 7 others if they play in a 4v4. THIS DOES NOT MEAN they can't play QW at BW, there are plenty of other servers they can go to and play at. In fact, most people leave when asked to politely, eg I will tell them how to spectate, or give them the ip of an ffa server so they can go and play there. This solves one problem - the player who is there "by accident", without really understanding that the servers are there for 4v4 teamgames. However, there is a 2nd type (fortunately quite rare) of person, who just sits on the server refusing to leave, thus wasting 8 other peoples time and perhaps money. The point Dynamic makes above is vital - THIS PERSON HAS NO INTENTION OF ACTUALLY PARTICIPATING - they are just a troublemaker, pure and simple, who gets some kind of sadistic pleasure from disrupting other people trying to play a game.

So yeti comes on irc, asks SPECIFICALLY for sheep as he knows him, and says come kick this lamer off. The languague used is much more loose since they know each other... he wasn't asking for any old admin, he was asking for an acquaintance. Perhaps this is unique to the QW community - the vast majority of UK players know each other. Sometimes I fancy playing a teamgame, refresh my server list and see a 4v4 about to start on BW TDM 2. However, I don't just barge in on the server demanding to play (even tho I want to), I have some common decency/respect and join as spectator to wait my turn. Even if the server doesnt have 8 players there yet, I will ask if its a pickup game or clan game before assuming I can play.

I get the impression some posters on this topic think that clans are "taking over public servers" by just marching in and demanding others leave. This doesnt happen, if a server is already in use we either find another server, wait, or ask the current players politely if they would mind using another server (if they are playing 2v2/duel for example, for which other servers are provided at BW). The problem yeti is describing is when 2 teams of 4 were set to play, and then some idiot just barges in. Again, let me emphasise these servers are called BW "TDM", for team deathmatch. NOT FFA (Free-for-all), which is open to anyone provided they don't cheat. Last time I checked, the TDM servers don't have the word "public" in their title.

So you see, the way these servers are used in QW differs slightly from other games. There is basically no such thing as a totally casual team game in QW, with uneven teams, players joining/leaving midgame, complete newbies with no team binds etc. If people want that style of quake, I suggest they try FFA, or in the case of newbies with no binds, putting in the effort like everyone else has to make a cfg, and perhaps learn their teamplay trade in 2v2s and/or a clan environment to start with. QW pickups are REAL teamgames, not like the Q3 I tried which was almost universal FFA without shooting teammates, compounded by the teams changing every minute.

Besides, the idea that one player should have the right to ruin the experience of 8 others is crazy to me. Maybe in other games it wouldn't do, but believe me, QW is exceedingly hardcore when it comes to teamplay and the actions of one player can have a HUGE impact. The fact is, the people being asked to leave are "never" an established member of the community, because those players have the common sense not to expect to play. It's always aliasing troublemakers, or sometimes newbies who just refreshed gamespy and joined without really understanding what the server was for. If I had a penny for every time I'd heard somebody with 200 ping, 20 pl and 20fps say "WHY ISN'T ANYBODY DYING?!?!?!?" during prewar, I'd be a rich man by now. Of course, ignorance is not a crime, so I ask them to leave politely, giving them other ips etc as I described above. But sometimes they won't, and theres no way we should have to put up with no game at all. Heck, its not like these guys are actually getting to play anyway by idling on the server in prewar, they are just holding things up for 8 others.

Another argument put forward in this thread is that if two clans want to play a game, they should use the booking system. Great in theory, but in practice most games nowadays are arranged on the fly, i.e. one clan asks a few others if they have 4, when they find an opponent they jump on an empty server and play. Who wants to wait around for ages while somebody struggles with the complicated booking system, looking up their passwords, and then waiting for the booking to become active? By then 20mins+ has passed and we could have already played one game. Then what if two different games are happening at once? Since the "new *splutter*improved" booking system was introduced, we now only have 1 bookable QW server instead of 3, and 2 publics instead of 0-3.

Then of course bear in mind that clan games arent the only serious teamgames played on these servers, we have pickup games too. By their very nature, pickup games are arranged on the spur of the moment and so are played on these servers, not booked. However, in QW pickup teamgames DOES NOT MEAN freeforall, it's first-come-first-served until enough players are present (usually 8). On occaision I have run BW megames, which are on a pre-arranged server, advertised on newssites/irc specifically as "join in and play we dont care" type games, where anyone and anybody is welcome (16v16 death32c, players joining in midgame whatever its just a bit of fun).


So there you have it, congratulations if you read all this through :) FYI I don't claim to speak for the entire community, but I view myself as an adequate representative since I've played for years, and currently run the UKCL, the premier QW league in UK (and probably the longest running team FPS league in the country, if not the world for that matter).
 
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old.corax

Guest
well said ht, i don't think any QW player who knows what they're talking about can disagree with anything you've said there
 
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oldman

Guest
wish you hadn't left southampton now so i could fluffle yuor hair :(
 
N

natrat

Guest
this is responding mainly to hangtime's eloquent post :)

ok 2 points, publics and the feeling the QW servers have been neglected. I'll mention them both:

I'm talking about the basic principle of a public server. The thing that I disagree with is that some of you seem to think it's a god given right to use a public for a clan match if you so feel like it. Obviously some of you are older (you are quite eloquent, and handy with sarcasm and abuse) and have been playing for a long time, but that doesn't give you any more rights automatically.

Whilst I agree that it would be nice to be able to have a public to yourself and other players leave, the way to approach it is to ask the person to leave. If they are going to be a dickhead about it, just leave and wait for them to go; they won't stay on alone for long. If they are abusive or disruptive (beyond the disruption of your clan game) then call an admin. But you don't have a right to kick a player from a public so you can play a clan match.

I guess you will think my opinion is only so as I don't understand the Quakeworld community nor how it works now. Maybe. I do appreciate you taking the time to explain your point of view. It seems as if we have a storm in a tea cup; obviously you guys play clan games on publics quite frequently with no trouble at all if that's the way it has been for ages. I'm sure you will continue to do so in the future.

Regarding changes on the servers, it's true that some changes have taken a long time to be implemented (Quakeworld is not the only game, so don't feel like you're purposely singled out). This is due to a number of factors including Barrysworld situation as a changing company, loss of staff, Deathace not having enough time to do everything alone (hsnce me being employed recently), and of course priorities come into play also. But I'm sure you've heard reasons before; I know nobody really cares about them, they just want results.

Things will pick up speed soon, once some infrastructure stuff is sorted, and I am up to speed. If you want to have Ceno or yourself send the changes you want to see (probably best coming from the liaison) via the support system (with a note for my attention) I'll ensure it doesn't get dropped. I can't give a time frame at the moment (I'm still picking things up and there are some things Deathace has to do) but it won't get forgotten.

And regarding your comments on the booking system; i can't beleive you consider it complicated...perhaps giving it a closer look will reveal it's easier than you think. As for onthe fly games, the booking system supports starting a game from right then and there, if the slot is free.

cheers,
nath

PS. Ch3tan, it might be an idea for you to drop it soon.
 
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oldman

Guest
MAPS TO ADD TO THE 5 DUEL SERVERS AND TDM1+2
------------------------------------------------------------------

dm2dmm4 - http://www.besmella-quake.com/dmm4/maps/dm2dmm4.zip

Amphitheatre - http://www.besmella-quake.com/dmm4/maps/amphi.zip

Aqua - http://www.besmella-quake.com/dmm4/maps/aqua.zip

povdmm4 - http://www.besmella-quake.com/dmm4/maps/povdmm4.zip

DM2ish - ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/.2/idgames2/levels/deathmatch/d-f/dm2ish.zip

ADMDS (dm6mod) - ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/.2/idgames2/levels/deathmatch/d-f/dm6mod.zip

Basewalk - ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/.2/idgames2/levels/deathmatch/a-c/basewalk.zip

q3dm6ish - http://www.fileplanet.com/dl/dl.asp?aardappel/q3dm6ish.zip

And the duel servers and tdm servers are fine with kteams as it fixes the double jump
bug but the other mods such as Clan Arena and Teamfortress have this
bug in the qwsv whereby it makes you jump twice when you hit the
ground fking up bunnyhopping if your fps is greater than 58 fips or summit so for the
CA server and the TF servers replace the qwsv with zqwsv to fix
this bug :)

ZQWSV - http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/zquake/zqwsv-0.13devb.zip

Und also is it not possible to have 'bookable 1' open and free for use when it isn't booked? Just seems silly to have that server going to waste all the time. And swap the Barrys CTF server for a standard RA server and swap one of the TF servers for ktpro server or summit.
 
C

Ch3tan

Guest
I dropped it on my last post.....ahh shit u amde me post again. git.
 
N

natrat

Guest
Which part of "via the support system" did you misunderstand :) Also get the liaison to send it, then we don't have to get all requests sent to him for approval anyway.

cheers,
nathan
 
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oldman

Guest
i just pasted a male i'd already nibbed over to deathace last friday
 
N

natrat

Guest
Originally posted by oldman
i just pasted a male i'd already nibbed over to deathace last friday
Click to expand...

I didn't realise he was that way inclined ;)
 
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