Scout – how much stealth do you need?

[old.Hendrick]

I have started an experimental Highlander Scout yesterday and now I am wondering how stealth works for scouts and how important it is, seeing all this detect hidden stuff and all. At the moment I am thinking that my main enemies are assassins, who will most likely spot me without trouble regardless of my skill in stealth.
The way I understand it, is that you have soke kind of stealth-bubble around you that grows smaller and smaller once you increase your stealth, and makes it less likely for ordinary people to detect you. But, if ever a tank or wizzie comes close enough to me so he can see through my stealth, I'd say I made a serious mistake as a scout. Also, I hear you can run at regular speed if your stealth is the same as your level - is that true? What about hiding from mobs while roaming the countryside? And finally, the stealth-skills like safe-fall, detect hidden, climb wall. They all sound nice, but I hear we scouts only get detect hidden. The character builder tells me that I have safe fall and climb wall too – true or not?

At the moment, my lvl 50 template looks like this:
Longbow 50
Shield 42
Slash 34
Stealth 20

This would give me some serious close-combat ability when facing off against an assassin or enemy archer, would it not? But on the other hand I could only go for shield 42, stun the enemy and crit-shot him to death – would that work, in theory? That would mean more points in stealth. But I like the idea of a melee-scout, I am even thinking of reducing stealth further a bit, so I only get my detect hidden at skill lvl 16 and can pump up slash another level or 2.

What do you think about that, and can someone please talk a bit about scout stealth here?
Thanks.

 

[old.stroke]

You don't even get detect hidden
It's an assassin skill that makes it easier to detect all stealth classes without detect hidden.
In 1.50 you get the option to buy True Sight which reveals all hidden characters for a 1 min duration on a 30 min recast.

 

[Addlcove]

if you havent played him to high yet delete him and make a saracen instead, you want the quickness dexterity they have, more dex and qui equals more firing speed

 

[SFXman]

Originally posted by Hendrick
At the moment I am thinking that my main enemies are assassins, who will most likely spot me without trouble regardless of my skill in stealth.
Especially when they get detect hidden in later patches...

The way I understand it, is that you have soke kind of stealth-bubble around you that grows smaller and smaller once you increase your stealth, and makes it less likely for ordinary people to detect you. But, if ever a tank or wizzie comes close enough to me so he can see through my stealth, I'd say I made a serious mistake as a scout.

That is basically how the bubble works yes... but if you have over 40 stealth a tank or a wizzy will have a seriously tough time finding you...

Also, I hear you can run at regular speed if your stealth is the same as your level - is that true?

To my knowledge even 50 stealth will not let you run at you normal speed... if I remember correctly you will always be a bit slower, but still faster than with for example 1 stealth. It doesn't go by what your level is.

What about hiding from mobs while roaming the countryside?

This is a great thing about stealth I have noticed... you no longer need a group to pick you up form the start of a dungeon. I myself can at least can stealth past red con mobs with ease and my stealth is not even near my level yet (so the whole stealth must be same level as enemy player doesn't apply with mobs I guess)

And winally, the stealth-skills like safe-fall, detect hidden, climb wall. They all sound nice, but I hear we scouts only get detect hidden. The character builder tells me that I have safe fall and climb wall too – true or not?

You do not get any of these.... safe-fall/detect hidden/climb wall.

At the moment, my lvl 50 template looks like this:
Longbow 50
Shield 42
Slash 34
Stealth 20

This would give me some serious close-combat ability when facing off against an assassin or enemy archer, would it not?

I'd say that any assassin will seriously kick your ass in melee... no matter how high your thrust is (as long as they are near your level ofc). Enemy arcehrs, well both realms have archers that are much more tough in melee than scouts, sorry to say but it is true.

But on the other hand I could only go for shield 42, stun the enemy and crit-shot him to death – would that work, in theory?

That is how it is done, much more viable option

That would mean more points in stealth. But I like the idea of a melee-scout, I am even thinking of reducing stealth further a bit, so I only get my detect hidden at skill lvl 16 and can pump up slash another level or 2.

What do you think about that, and can someone please talk a bit about scout stealth here?
Thanks.

Well, the idea of a melee-scout scares me, no offense,
This is because I have learned that us scouts are quite the wuss when it comes to killing an opponent with a melee weapon of any sort. I'd say we'd do more damage whacking them with our longbow on the head in close combat.

But my template will be:
Longbow 50
Shield 42
Stealth 36
Thrust 15

Only thing that might change is that I take a bit less longbow and up stealth a slight bit.

 

[Elvewen]

My current template for Ryker is to go

Longbow 39
Thrust 39
Shield 42 - mmmmm Slam
Stealth 31

This should give you 50 (with the right items) in Longbow and Thrust, the all important slam and a decent amount of stealth for sniping.

I dont recon it worth going to 50 with the longbow as you wont get any new styles after 27.

I only put a minimum into stealth up till 28 then build it up for RvR. This allows me to get all the good RvE requirements of Longbow and Thrust so I dont get mauled by a green mob and the little that is in stelth reduces the bubble to allow me to recover after a fight with relative saftey.

From looking round all the post (US and EU) a full on Scout Sniper is no longer as desirable, the discover hidden thing will uncover you (but only to the level of the translucent figure you see when stealthed) but ignoring the stealth to go more of a tank is also a bad idea.

My template gives a balanced Scout that can Snipe and, when required, do a little tanking.

 

[old.Grymshadow]

If you really want to stand a chance against other archers/assassins, thrust will gimp you, go slash 29(amethyst slash) if you can.

also when/if ever, we get all these new rp abilities, purge will ruin a shield slam

I played a scout in beta, only time i won against someone in straight melee, was a yellow con ranger, and basically beat him to death with my shield. (I was a thrust user, nasty penalty against leather)

If i could be bothered to face the agony of lvl'ing a scout to 50, this is how i would go:
Briton
stealth 39
slash29
shield 42
longbow 41

Just have fun, thats the main thing

 

[old.Hendrick]

I AM going for slash, that's why I chose to be a Highlander. That decision was made on purpose, because everybody else is going saracen. I think that's boring. The other sensible option would have been a briton, but that's boring too I like the short skirt of my highlander-lass.

For melee, I am not planning to fight anything else than other archers or the occasional infiltrator, but the hint with going for a bit less in Longbow seems fine to me. Even more points for slash

I think I'll continue the plan, I won't be in too much trouble considering the right speccing anyway before I get to levels over 20.

 

[Elvewen]

Good point about the slash.. unfortunatly Ryker was my first character and Thrust lookd a better choice at the time due to lower strenght and the faster attack rate...

Ahh well i'll just have to wait for 1.50 and the respec ability

 

[old.cutgrass]

I started a little Scout recently and am currently level 8. I have struggled with the whole Stealth vs Tank issue but then again I am having the same issues with my 30+ Minstrel.

My current thinking is that I will take my Minstrel the way of stealth and my Scout the way of the tank. The reason for this is simply down to how I want to play.

I want my minstrel to go it alone in RvR. To be honest run song and mana song are great in PvE but people can become very demanding in RvR and at times it's a lot less hassle to solo. I also think that the Chain/Stealth combo makes us enemy stealth class killers. I don't want another Stealth class and with a 42 in Shield and that great bow I reckon I'll be a good addition to my guild in any RvR group. See a group of enemies, pepper it with arrows, get the sword and shield out and tank with my fellow guildies. In RvR there is no agro code so if I'm lucky I'll get away with this approach.

So to sum up. Spec is all about how you want to play the class. Decide what works best for you and spec that way. Don't try to become uber as it wont work and there will always be someone better than you. Just play the game the way you have the most fun.

 

[old.cutgrass]

Oh yeah - and the Thrust vs Slash debate.

I went Slash on the Minstrel - as I'll be fighting stealthers.
I went Thrust on the Scout - as I'll be fighting tanks.

Dead simple.

 

[old.stroke]

Cutgrass:
You have gone the Bladerunner path. I find it quite interesting, as do many others and people debate about their effectiveness.
Slash is definately right in this case. The DD's will be good to use as soon as you see the outlines of a stealther (F8 will be handy). And stun to catch up with them. High weapontraining is a must.
Unfortunately, the stealth will not help you that much. No matter how high you spec, the "natural born" will probably have better. But it's a way to get closer to them, then destealth, speed song, DD, stun, attack.
Chain is also quite good against shadowblades atleast, hunters have spears so will probably have + against it. But i guess you knew all this already

 

[Aeiedil]

assasains should outmelee an archer

oh and rangers wear reinforced

 

[Silence]

DO NOT MAKE HIGHLANDER SCOUT.....


slash ok u be a good hitter, but u will be ultra crap with bow, archery damage is based on dex, and with low highlander dex a bow will do bugger all damage, and u will fire slow.

everyone is sarc and brit because it makes sense, scouts need dex and quickness,

scout are supposed to use bows, not supposed to be good melees. make infiltrator if u want to be more like a stealthed tank.


trust me a highlander scout is the most pointless thing on the game.

and with yor low stealth ideas well u wont be able to sneak up to archers as thats what infiltrators do,

i advise u make an infiltrator and i advice u research more before u make ne players u dont know what u are doing.

 

[old.Hendrick]

i advise u make an infiltrator and i advice u research more before u make ne players u dont know what u are doing.

I am perfectly aware of the fact that Highlanders have low dexterity and are therefore at a bit of a loss when it comes to archery. As I have stated earlier somewhere, this is an experiment. As I have also stated before, I do not like to follow paths that have been trodden by all and everyone. This game is about style for me. A highlander-scout-girlie (I chose the female model) will sure stand out in the crowd of archers in the realm. I have seen countless saracen archers, many britons and up to now exactly 2 highlander-scouts. Sure, it may not be the choice if you want to "0wnz0r" everywhere, but it is a choice that pleases me. I am 10 points below a briton in dex and quick. Oh my god. This will be my downfall wherever I go.

And Silence: The only advise I can give you is not to give this "you're a n00b"-talk to everybody who comes up with anything that does not fit the usual scheme.


By the way, my next plan is a saracen armsman

 

[Keri]

Maybe Hendrick is going for the "Gimp of the Month" award.

 

[Elvewen]

i advise u make an infiltrator and i advice u research more before u make ne players u dont know what u are doing.

Just a small point... the big white (or manky brown) thing in front of you is a Keyboard... not a mobile phone...

u = You

not that hard, two extra keys, even on the same hand.

If you want to make a valid point try not to sound like a brain dead SMS message.

 

[old.stroke]

Well, it's his time, let him waste it if he wants to
Maybe he stumbles upon a hidden gem in his efforts?
I like the nisch characters, like the bladerunner. Dunno what to call this template.

For the Dex and Str. Since dex is a primary characteristic for scouts i expect it to rise 1point every lvl. (It's like that for infils anyway).
I expect you to put 10 Str, 10 Con and 10 Dex (or you will be 20 points after since most archers probably put 10 dex, 10 qui, 10?)
10 Str and Con so you exploit the edge you have from the beginning. This will make you a slow shooter, maybe not getting that many shots off before the mob/mid hits you).
You will have more HP to begin with than most scouts, but remember you will not gain that many during you leveling either.
It's a tough call. You will do a little less damage than the average scout per shot (the 10 points will matter less and less as you go up in level). You will however fire less shots before the inevitable melee. In melee you will last longer with both more HP and more hitting power, especially versus archers and infils.

I suspect your scout will always move near a friendly group, and won't attack until a stealther has revealed himself (you will have difficulties seeing them). If you're in the right position you can crit-shot and melee them out before your group has come to the rescue and/or he restealthes. A counterattacker, most likely. Maybe teamed up with a Bladerunner?
In PvE it will be similar. The ordinary puller, and will help take down the mob faster.

Interesting template indeed.

 

[SFXman]

Originally posted by Elvewen


Just a small point... the big white (or manky brown) thing in front of you is a Keyboard... not a mobile phone...

u = You

not that hard, two extra keys, even on the same hand.

If you want to make a valid point try not to sound like a brain dead SMS message.

Hehe.... I must agree on this. Although I still use full words, proper sentences and good punctuation in SMS messages

 

[Javai]

I'm a little confused

Someone mentioned using Slam then critshot - but doesn't slam then count as being in combat meaning you can't crit shot? Or is that a time delay so that after a second or two you can crit shot again?

/em searches for a confused looking smiley

 

[old.Hendrick]

Javai, that's exactly what I wanted to know, and I still don't

I put +10 in strength, dex and quick by the way, so I am only 10 points below a similiar specced briton. i seriously don't see too much trouble here. Just look at our dreaded enemies: Rowenna and Sinister are both norsemen if I remember correctly (same stats as highlanders, 50 dex, 50 quick, 70 str, 70 con). Whilst they may have the advantage of a dex-buff, I can get similiar from a friendly theurgist/wizard.

Just you all wait, I'll rule the frontier after all

 

[Pfy]

I myself have a 'gimped' Scout (depending how you view it) ... yay me! ;D

Highlander and Thrust (supposedly thrust uses half str/half dex, so is in theory no worse than the slash but better against chain?) and think it's quite cool. Sure, I fire about as fast as Stephen Hawkins can run but can at elast take a bit of a beating and even melee a litlle when dneeds be.

Even managed to get a yellow conn Shadowblade due to about | | much health in pure melee ... although, I'm not sure how.

More so I enjoy the fact that I'm different, I myself haven't seen any other higlander scouts, but I'm sure their are some.

Also, does STR make any difference to the arrow damage? As I managed to take 753dmg off a yellow a few days ago ... shame I got no RP :[

 

[SFXman]

Re: I'm a little confused

Originally posted by Javai
Someone mentioned using Slam then critshot - but doesn't slam then count as being in combat meaning you can't crit shot? Or is that a time delay so that after a second or two you can crit shot again?

/em searches for a confused looking smiley

Woooooops, my bad.... true
It changes to a regular. But then again two or three or whatever regular shots will get rid of a pesky ASSassin

 

[old.TheAussie]

Well i'm making a

Shield 23
Thrust 18
Longbow 50
Stealth 50

or something like that

reason why i'm not upgrading Shield:


think how 'many' times you'll be able to Stun your enemy
-he has to be alone
and he has to be some kind of fighter or are you going to run into a caster's spells?


my stealth will be maxed
- i move much faster
- i can see ppl with stealth 20 very well, so better upgrade it or leave it

with my items i'll have more then 60 longbow and stealth =)

 

[Flimgoblin]

Got to remember... high stealth will only allow you to run around faster ...

It won't stop assassins finding you after 1.50. (that said a moving stealthed target is probably a lot harder to find than a stationary one)

 

[Ardwan]

So how many shots can these saracen scouts get off, using the freebie arrows from trainer, before the mobs get to them, I can get about 3, depending on the speed of the mob. That is with a highlander scout

And my final template will be something like:

Stealth 39
Slash 31
Shield 42
Longbow 39

Although I may drop stealth a bit to raise the others, as the main function of stealth is going to be keeping out of tanks and casters view, as any infiltrator is gonna see me no matter how high my stealth is.

 

[old.Laico]

Strange combinations of class/race are good... ppl will see that highlander and think from range/big battles that it is a mercenary with his bow... confussion is always a good thing

Thats the reason because I made a briton infiltrator, you cannot know what class Im unless very near (or you know my name).

Racial stats are important in the early levels, past 35+ you wont notice them.

 

[old.Grymshadow]

Originally posted by TheAussie



my stealth will be maxed
- i move much faster
- i can see ppl with stealth 20 very well, so better upgrade it or leave it

lvl50 with 50 stealth, moves just as "fast" as a lvl20 with 20 stealth.
So long as your 2/3+ in stealth, you dont get any faster.

 

[old.The McScrooges]

Hmmm. My gimped Highlander

I started with my 30 points split straight into Dex and Qui, leaving my Str and Con at 70.

At the lower levels I did miss on my critical shots and only get a second shot before the mob reached me...
But when the mob reached me I meleed fairly well

After level 10, I've learnt how to use a bow, what arrows to use and when to pick my targets and will now quite happily pop yellows.

My Str, Dex and Qui keep increasing along with the fun factor.
I'm sure at later levels I'll hit my racial cap but who cares...

My point is that after doing research and looking over dull templates, reading other people's valid comments on how to make a PWNing UR A$$ scout, I went bugger it.

I like my Highland scout, its fun to play and works well in the game. It r0xx0rs or something... Screw stereotypes, play a character because you want to and don't be put off that a level 38 you'll do 20 less damage.

Liljock - now level 12...

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Hendrick
I like the short skirt of my highlander-lass.

Exactly why I picked highlander for my minstrel (oh, and they own )
Kilts forever

 

[Farnis]

Oh my god - how arrogant is that silence guy...methinks he needs to stop studying DAOC and top up his academic and personal stills....

Anyway - my thoughts on Highlander Scout....

I love playing off centre chars also - my fave being my Kobold warrior. I dont know much about alb but im sure the same rules apply. The problem with an Jock scout is that pretty much everything you are looking at doing is based on dex (i think)...firing a bow, speccing in shield, evade. The only plus you will have is with the blades spec...but even this i think is too much of a trade off...particularly when only wearing leather armour...that said...if you want to play as a man dressed in a skirt go for your life

See you cats later
Farn.