SB's and left axe

[nobrot]

Any SB's out there specced in LA?. reason I ask is that I am curious as to how a typical RvR attack would go. Currently I am using a 2h sword, and open with PA, CD and then the assault chain... how would this differ from using LA, is the only advantage the LA styles and poison stacking?, do LA specced sb's open with a 2h sword with PA, and then switch to LA styles?...

Any advice greatly appreciated....

 

[old.Runolas]

A full specced SZ will use Snowsquall – Icy Brilliant, then Doublefrost and Comeback – Frosty Gaze if target evades. Some will Doublefrost from start.

A SoulBlade/5-spec will open with PA – CD, then dual for Doublefrost and Comeback – Frosty Gaze if target evades.

 

[Vell]

Heh....and I assume that makes sense if you actually play a shadowblade....

 

[Damon_D]

Aye it does mate

 

[old.Iunliten]

Originally posted by nobrot
Any SB's out there specced in LA?. reason I ask is that I am curious as to how a typical RvR attack would go. Currently I am using a 2h sword, and open with PA, CD and then the assault chain... how would this differ from using LA, is the only advantage the LA styles and poison stacking?, do LA specced sb's open with a 2h sword with PA, and then switch to LA styles?...

Any advice greatly appreciated....

why not use garotte/AH chain instead of assault chain?

 

[klavrynd]

Because Garotte hogs end even more then assault

 

[old.Iunliten]

if it stands up after PA CD garotte ah garrote ah garrote ah(end out)
then you are in trouble

Btw achilles heal got a slow attack speed. which is nice.

 

[nobrot]

Thanks for the feedback.. any of you LA specced SB's able to solo oranges?, A lvl41 SB in spin was showing me that he could solo yellows and most oranges and rekons he can one shot an orange caster in RvR, he is not specced in LA, he is classic crit blade with maxed out crit,...

I just dinged 36, and its aboot time to decide critblade or 5 spec.... so I would love to hear from any of you that are playing these SB's in RvR, and just how good they really are.

 

[old.Iunliten]

LOL a 41 shadowblade got the epic sword

Not hard to solo with that one.

 

[Solid]

a 5 Spec SB can get all skills up into the 40's using good items and a couple RR, means they are highly versatile and got the most bang for the buck from the skills they invested in, eg:

40+ Axe
40+ LA
40+ CS
40+ Stealth
40+ Envenom

Left Axe styles = RvR viability if u ever miss PA or CD

makes for one helluva versatile class.

your average critblade only sacrifices LA mind, and gets all other 4 skills 45+ usually

eg

50+ Axe/Sword
50+ CS
45+ Stealth
45+ Env

High CS/Weapon = massive weapon damage cap and very low damage variance = potential for 1 shot kills on even cons and even higher.

Depends what ya wanna do, I aint no expert and am going with the 5 spec as it sounds more fun, and is easier to level as well.

 

[nobrot]

Aye Solid I was considering 5 spec, even have 5 in LA now, but after watching an SB solo oranges it made me wonder if classic crit-blade wasnt the way to go..

also I have no clue how to spec for the mega-nerf of future patches that will mean no more one-shot kills without dropping stealth.. after one-shotting a caster, you drop stealth and now have to get into a proper fight with tin wearing albs (who are probably peeved you just killed their rezzer).. would a 5 spec perhaps be able to deliver some kinda snare or stun to make a clean getaway?, or would a critblade be able to have an even chance waving his lvl40 epic sword around??.

even with the respec, some decisions have to be made at 35 to end up with a usable sb...

I'm sooooo confused....

I just want to stealth in RvR kill even or higher con's and live to tell the tale....

 

[old.Iunliten]

if you are happy with your critblade why change it to 5 specc?

 

[Solid]

if IGN guys were to believe, and they have had a few polls on this, most SB now are 5 Spec or Critblade.

both are viable, Critblade being harder to play because of the very careful choosing of targets.

5 Specs can usually Melee toe to toe with most classes if they get the jump, even if they miss the opener.

Critblades absolutely rely on a successful PA against all even con classes cept robed casters.

5 Specs can fire off 3 poisons in their opening 2 moves, whereas critblades cannot, they are stuck with 1 poison.

So a 5 Spec usually runs about with a Snare on the 2H, DoT Poison and Debuff Poison on the 2 1H weapons.

Successful PA and CD (with 1x 1H) = 3 poisons off then you can Doublefrost or Frosty Gaze, Comeback till opponent dead.

Good thingwith 5 spec is you can do all things well (not excel at any 1 thing) and in the hope of respec, you will be able to then respec to a full Critblade, or a full Shadowzerker or even a Soulblade

 

[nobrot]

Good info Solid, thanx, I have settled on two possible lvl 50 templates for RvR... if anyone has any comment or sugestions, I will listen

5-spec lvl 50
Stealth 36
Sword 39
Envenom 29
Crit Strk 34
Left Axe 39

Critblade lvl 50
Stealth 36
Sword 44
Envenom 25
Crit Strk 50
Left Axe 5 (mistake)

 

[Solid]

Excellent builds

my 5 spec will go same build as the one youn propositioned, very balanced build imo.

 

[Danya]

Nice thing about critblades is they have to stand there for 5 secs after their PA before they can get a CD in... makes it easy to slap a stun on them

 

[Farnis]

Eh up Nobrot matey....

I was thinking about this myself. What I want to know is will the fact that I have a Norseman base level QUI (for the big one hitter) be detrimental if I ever equip a left axe?

Fink.

 

[Solid]

at 50 what is the auto gained Qui for a shadowblade? its every 2 levels, so +22 Qui.

add to that most SB items give +Qui, it wont make a noticeable detrimental impact at all.

Use the Slowest right hand axe u can find, and the fastest off hand (usually Ebony Axe of Mindless Rage) and you will have 50% chance of having the left hand delay.

Dont mean didly imo, something like 0.01 seconds faster (or something ludicrous) for a Kobold than a Norse.

Does anyone have an idea how actual damage (and range) is calculated? (general melee now not LA specific)

I know Weapon DPS, Quality, Condition, Speed, Bonus/Encantment, Weapon Spec, Strength, your Quickness stat value (50 being base, below means slower swing=more damage, above means faster=less damage)

I also know the opponent armourn stats, quality, condition, AF all come into play in the final damage.

Also 2H Weapon bonuses apply when wielding 2H weapons

Anyone wanna hazard a guess as to a formula that churns out realistic results?

For example I am a norse Hammer specced Thane, and can hit robed casters for 560+ damage using 2H, most tin cannies of even conn for 380+.

I wanna set a challenge for the maths guru's out there to derive a possible forumla factoring all these variables that churns out realistic Damage ranges

 

[old.Iunliten]

Originally posted by Solid

Use the Slowest right hand axe u can find, and the fastest off hand (usually Ebony Axe of Mindless Rage) and you will have 50% chance of having the left hand delay.

What are you talking about?

You swing your 2 weapons after your slowest weapon...

If you got one weapon that got speed 2 and one speed 5 you will do damage for a speed 2 every 5 sec. Which is worthless... you need weapons with closely matched speed to be as effective as possible.

 

[Solid]

I suggest you go read how left axe works Iunliten

 

[old.Iunliten]

"The skill level in Left Axe determines how much damage you do with each weapon while you are wielding weapons in both hands.

When you use weapons in both hands via the left axe skill, the following happen:

• You hit with each weapon every time you hit an enemy
• You automatically do half damage with each weapon
• You do 20% more damage per round (10% per weapon)
• Half your skill level is added as a % bonus
• The attack delay is determined by an average of the two weapons

So, if you have a 30 skill in left axe, your two weapons will hit every round for half damage each, plus 20% more base damage, plus 15% (30 / 2) more for spec damage.

In effect, Left Axe works similarily to Albion and Hibernia's two-handed weapon skills."

daoc.catacoms.com

It was an average instead of slowest still have no clue what you are talking about.

50% chance off having the offhand delay?

 

[Solid]

Originally posted by old.Iunliten


What are you talking about?

You swing your 2 weapons after your slowest weapon...

If you got one weapon that got speed 2 and one speed 5 you will do damage for a speed 2 every 5 sec. Which is worthless... you need weapons with closely matched speed to be as effective as possible.

This is wrong:

Sanya has not mentioned how style damge is applied using Left Axe, but on IGN they claim it works like this:

Your style damage is calculated off the delay of the weapon you wield in your right hand.

Style damage is ONLY applied to the right hand.

Using the slowest right hand weapon means you get the biggest style damage.

To prevent you from swinging slowly due to the slow delay of your right hand weapon you should wield the fastest left hand weapon you can find (thats got the DPS you need of course) because (as you riightly corrected me) your effective delay in swinging is (RH delay + LH delay) /2.

Because style damage is NOT applied to the Left hand, having a very fast axe is beneficial because you will do Slow RH style damage but swing significantly faster because the fast left hand axe decreases your average weapon swing speed.

(ok so its not 50% chance to swing with fastest weapon, but as you stated its the average of both weapon delays)

The key message is the Damage you do using the right hand is independant of the axe you use in the left hand.

Faster left axe means quicker weapon swings without compromising right hand style damage, at the expense of lesser left hand base damage (compared to a slower left axe)

Basically you will do more damage over time using the Slowest RH and fastest LH axes compared with using 2 medium, or 2 slow axes.

 

[inqy]

holy crap. thats confusing ;[

 

[old.Iunliten]

No I got it but that means that left axe is only a speed boost to your right hand...

Feels kinda silly don't it?

 

[Solid]

The actual Left Axe (assuming you use a fast one) is a damage over time boost actually.

With a fast LA you swing for same styled damageon right hand but FASTER.

IE over a standard melee fight, you will do more damage using a fast LA than a slow LA.

It may only be the difference of a single swing more, but thats around 200-300 damage at level 50.

Remember as you posted above, the Left Axe skill offers good bonuses to damage, namely 60% of both weapons and half skill
So any 50 Zerker should do 60% + 60% + 1/2 skill in LA = 145% damage?

A Shadowzerker or 5 Spec blade with 39 Left Axe would do a little less, but significantly more than a 2H weapon.

The speed of swinging bonus achieved by using a very quick left axe and very slow right axe is an additional bonus of Left Axe skill.

The principle of Left axe is good, tho I pray for 1.51 when they tweak Left Axe (and at the same time nerf DoubleFrost )

 

[nobrot]

Well not that silly, coz you stack poisons on the LA, and thats the kicker for me...

I am not yet familiar with LA styles, but would everyone agree that if you are 5-spec, then a typical attack would be to open with PA and CD with the 2h, perhaps with a snare poison, and then switch to dual weilding the RH Sword and LA, using whatever styles you have, and stacking DOT/Diseas poisons?...

And what about melee, would you be better off with the 2h, or dual weild with LA styles?... coz sure as shit, once the caster is dead, you are gona get ganked by his tin-wearing m8's...

I think I will stick with the 5-spec, I remember my first one-shot in bg, yellow caster type, smacked him with 2h PA and he went down soooo fast, still stealthed I couldnt help but laugh at the (assumed) look of total surprise on the faces of all the other albs standing around that one of their casters just seemed to fall over dead for no apparant reason; but sadly that ability will be ripped away from us, which imo leaves the classic crit-blade a bit nerfed....

 

[Solid]

Open with PA using 2H laced with snare, switch to 2 axes (in a later patch a single hotbar button will switch you to both axes);
CD using 2 axes laced with DoT and Debuff.

Use doublefrost and when you evade (prolly wont use this post 1.51 nerf) use Comeback/Frosty Gaze chain.

as a 5 spec your LA styles will do more damage than a Garrotte/AH combo, making that CS chain largely redundant, esp with the amount od end used up by a single Garotte.

You Hotbar would possibly look something like:

Stealth; PA; 1H Axe switch; CD; Doublefrost; Comeback; Frosty Gaze; /Stick

Question: After a PA using a 2H, does the delay stay at 2H weapon delay even after you switch to 1H axes? ie will you CD same time in the battle regardless if u use 2H or 2x 1H after a 2H opener?

 

[Danya]

Delay is calced from the time of last hit based on the last used weapon's delay. You can't shorten it by quick switching (or you could switch between your 6 speed polearm and your 2.2 speed dagger and get uber damage )

 

[nobrot]

Solid, I am using LA in conjunctions with a 1h sword, so I assume the same attack sequence still applies...

Are there any major disadvantages to combining 1h sword with LA?, I assume with that combo the LA is the weapon doing all the style damage (as frosty gaze etc are LA styles)..

So that begs the question, if you are using 1h sword and LA, how is damage calculated when using either sword or la styles?, would you even bother using sword styles in preference to LA styles?.

I didnt know you could switch weapons in the middle of a chain!!!, thats handy.. so effectively you can open with a big 2h hello with snare, then the second attack (CD) with 1h sword and LA with DOT/Diseas/Debuff poisons...

Is this something you have used?, is there a higher chance of fumbeling the CD if you switch weapons immediately after PA?

<the confusion begins to abate as NobRot applies a thin sheen of snare poison to his brand new 2h sword>

 

[Solid]

I aint used it personally as I aint got CD yet, but Hoster, and now Cuba (playing Hoster) used/uses it all the time.

Switching weaps doesnt effect your chance to fumble, miss, crit, its the same as not switching.

As Dannyn has kindly explained, you will setill have the huge delay that 2H opener creates before CD, but apparently will hit the CD using dual wield for a massive damage (I assume 2H Delay factors into Style damage as opposed to the right hand axe/swords delay?)

Regarding Sword/Axe, not Left axe styles will still do style damage off the right hand, even if the right hand weapon is a Sword.

Sword styles are similar to Axe styles wrt Left Axe, ie noone use em, they are rubbish compared to LA styles for a SB thats specced in good LA skill.

Only disadvantage of using Sword in right hand is that no sword gives +LA skill and no Left Axe gives + sword skill, whereas there are axes out there (aka Golden Alloy Axe: +5 Axe, +1 LA I believe) that gives both + Axe and + LA.