S&S Armsman??

[macddon]

Being a rarity in Albion Excal, having a real difficulty working out a decent TOA template - yeah I know there is nothing decent about a S&S armsman, but some of us still love them. SO some help and advice would be nice

Macddon, lvl 50 armsman legendary AC, ML3 Battlemaster, lowly rr 3L9 (cant get rps for monkeys)

 

[Xplo]

hmm Calamore is retired, but maybe he still reads the boards, he had a nice s&s template and switched to battler for 2h dmg.

I'll try to find it ;o

 

[Lumikki]

What is it about S&S Armsmen that makes them bad like people keep saying?

 

[Sendraks]

What is it about S&S Armsmen that makes them bad like people keep saying?

The have few significant advantages over the other melee classes in Albion. Paladin does comparable damage with its chants and provides end to the group. Paladins are also probably the best defensive class in Albion, so your Armsman is redundant from the get go. I.e. it isn't a significantly better block bot than a Pally and provides nothing extra to the group, i.e. it has no chants.

Mercs do more damage, Reavers have funky spells and shields too.

S/S Armsmen are not inherently bad, but they really don't have much to offer the current FOTM groups sadly.

Armsmen, be they Pole, 2-h or S/S need love from Mythic now!

 

[Filip]

and according to the mid TL a 50 pole 50 crush HO armsman does less damage over time than a skald ...

 

[NetNifty]

Thanes too apparently.

 

[Ctuchik]

The have few significant advantages over the other melee classes in Albion. Paladin does comparable damage with its chants and provides end to the group. Paladins are also probably the best defensive class in Albion, so your Armsman is redundant from the get go. I.e. it isn't a significantly better block bot than a Pally and provides nothing extra to the group, i.e. it has no chants.

Mercs do more damage, Reavers have funky spells and shields too.

S/S Armsmen are not inherently bad, but they really don't have much to offer the current FOTM groups sadly.

Armsmen, be they Pole, 2-h or S/S need love from Mythic now!

should switch names of the pally and armsman imo.. as the pally is doing one hell of a better job at acting heavy tank then a armsman does :/

 

[Lian]

Won't a S/S arms have a much higher weaponskill than a pally, and thus be more likely to land slam more regularly?

 

[NetNifty]

Yes, but a pally with end chant will have more chances to end slam due to having end chant :/

 

[Bracken]

Yes, but a pally with end chant will have more chances to end slam due to having end chant :/

End pots As a bg in caster group, s/s or hybrid armsman > pally (currently..). That might change with nf though

 

[NetNifty]

Best end pot without special components = end 3 isnt it? Still can run ooe with that if your spamming slam

 

[Tractartus]

Go X-bow

 

[Kagato]

Nothing wrong with a s/s Armsman, your just always going to find yourself living in the shadow of paladins (pretty much like every other armsman really).

When it comes to pure tanking, guarding, slamming and damage you will be more reliable, but that just isn't enough to compare with the advantage of Chants in pve or rvr.

The main point is, most groups only have 1 pure defense tank, the rest are usually damage if indeed any at all, and those guys are gonna want endurance chant, if you have the defensive slot someone else also has to go for the paladin... you see the problem?

 

[Bubble]

Hargard has a 50 Sword/shield armsman.
Personly i think hes great.
a Det tank with BG and grapple can basicly be used the same way as hibs use heros (Chain grapple and BG)

 

[Zarklech]

The have few significant advantages over the other melee classes in Albion. Paladin does comparable damage with its chants and provides end to the group. Paladins are also probably the best defensive class in Albion, so your Armsman is redundant from the get go. I.e. it isn't a significantly better block bot than a Pally and provides nothing extra to the group, i.e. it has no chants.

Mercs do more damage, Reavers have funky spells and shields too.

S/S Armsmen are not inherently bad, but they really don't have much to offer the current FOTM groups sadly.

Armsmen, be they Pole, 2-h or S/S need love from Mythic now!

An Arms got one advantage, can concentrate on getting MoB III and MoP III pretty fast, since Palas need to get FH So an arms can be a really good block bot if specced correct.

Oh and.... I love to win over Palas in duels

 

[cougar]

plate is cool, my savage wants :<

 

[Bracken]

Best end pot without special components = end 3 isnt it? Still can run ooe with that if your spamming slam

With small shield and invig pot running you can get occasionally ooe, but you arent having to slam all the time, especially with battlemaster ml . Run alot recently in caster gg as only tank and can say end use isnt a problem. Only time lack of end chant is an issue is if there are other tanks in group - but for pure caster groups where they want a defensive tank then it just doesnt come in to it. SoB, det, cheap purge, more hp etc etc all add up to making armsmen better guard bots in such groups (imho ofc ) - and I'd go as far to say that having tested pure offense, s/s and 50/42/39 hybrid spec that the hybrid spec is currently the best available for armsmen. But each to their own

 

[Lumikki]

... you see the problem?

Yep I see it now. Can only hope they get some much needed loving soon..

 

[Bracken]

Paladins are also probably the best defensive class in Albion, so your Armsman is redundant from the get go. I.e. it isn't a significantly better block bot than a Pally and provides nothing extra to the group, i.e. it has no chants.

I disagree. Until NF comes, in pure defensive terms armsmen have significant advantages over pallies. Det and cheap purge are the most obvious (you cant slam or switch bg when you're mezzed...), but also throw in SoB and more hp along with other more debatable advantages (such as potentially getting mob or ap sooner and higher ws) and you can see the advantages. This is offset against FH, ghetto rezz and chants. Group make up will determine which they prefer.

 

[frogster]

I disagree. Until NF comes, in pure defensive terms armsmen have significant advantages over pallies. Det and cheap purge are the most obvious (you cant slam or switch bg when you're mezzed...), but also throw in SoB and more hp along with other more debatable advantages (such as potentially getting mob or ap sooner and higher ws) and you can see the advantages. This is offset against FH, ghetto rezz and chants. Group make up will determine which they prefer.

Armsmen cannot offer groups the utility that Paladins can, this is before RA's are taken into consideration... its all very well saying blah blah blah with this RA Armsmen make better tanks, when the simple fact is Armsmen struggle to find RvR groups, and therefore RP's, due to their lack of utility.

 

[Belomar]

This can't be the original Macddon--he had the attention span of a six-year old.

 

[Bracken]

Armsmen cannot offer groups the utility that Paladins can, this is before RA's are taken into consideration... its all very well saying blah blah blah with this RA Armsmen make better tanks, when the simple fact is Armsmen struggle to find RvR groups, and therefore RP's, due to their lack of utility.

Huh? RAs aren't taken into consideration?

And btw, you'll note I didnt say better tanks, I said in pure defensive terms (which in specific group set ups is what they want)...

 

[Sendraks]

An Arms got one advantage, can concentrate on getting MoB III and MoP III pretty fast, since Palas need to get FH So an arms can be a really good block bot if specced correct.

Which is another big YAY for NF imo. I'll miss FH, but I'll not miss the expectation that as a Pally I should have it. Come NF it'll be bye bye FH and no way on earth am I getting VR.

Also looking forward to the new ways that Mythic will be fixing the ranged combat issues for heavy tanks like Pallys and Armsmen in later patches. No idea what they will be, but a reliable source says that they are pretty exciting.

Oh and.... I love to win over Palas in duels

And all the other victories are hollow and meaningless to you? Were you taunted by a Paladin as a child and now your only source of solace and revenge is to beat them in duels?

 

[Zarklech]

And all the other victories are hollow and meaningless to you? Were you taunted by a Paladin as a child and now your only source of solace and revenge is to beat them in duels?

haha. Well, actually...

 

[Kreig]

. I.e. it isn't a significantly better block bot than a Pally and provides nothing extra to the group, i.e. it has no chants.

Thats not actually correct, any armsmen who put any points into dex at char creation will have greater dex than a paladin of equal race/stat input.

Saracen Armsman have a base cap of 113 dex (no equipment/buffs etc) if they put 29 points into dex on creation, this will also be the same for a Paladin.

BUT the difference in increase is Armsmen have STR ,CON ,DEX increases per lvl - Primary Secondary Tertiary.
Were as Paladins get CON ,PIE ,STR increases per lvl - Primary Secondary Tertiary.

Meaning an Armsman will always be a better blocker, stat for stat.

The problem with DAoC is that RvR is based on utility, trying to achieve the best combo of grp with the best overall utility and effectiveness. Albion is fuck for utility which everyone all knows with the current spread of skills/classes.

Armsmen have FA utility compaired to a Paladin. Simply they will never be equal or close to or even better until Mythic give them something which is desirible that a Pally hasn't got.

 

[Sendraks]

Albion is fuck for utility which everyone all knows with the current spread of skills/classes.

Everyone....apart from a good number of Hib/Mid players who would disagree with you. Purely because they dislike the fact that our classes are at a disadvantage.

Totally agree with your other points, though in practice I (and others) don't notice a significant difference between a Pally with 50 shield and an Arms with 50 shield (both with Mob I). Mathematically the difference is there, but in real game terms its not that obvious.

 

[Kreig]

Everyone....apart from a good number of Hib/Mid players who would disagree with you. Purely because they dislike the fact that our classes are at a disadvantage.

I think this will become even more apparent with NF with the mixed utility of class specific RAs like BoF/BoAD/SOS/PR. Personally i think Mids are the overall winners then with more healer classes, meaning they will a wider range of spread utility.

Again i think Alb gets shafted purely becuase every class is so specific. :touch:

 

[old.windforce]

i have an armslady with mob5 and mop4 and she rox (pve :<)

 

[[SS]Gamblor]

This can't be the original Macddon--he had the attention span of a six-year old.

quit trolling here and get back ingame imo Belo =)

 

[Heath]

Well...pre ToA i had a lvl 50 s/s armsman...but really felt that my sole purpose was as a blockbot. Which, got me the RPs but didnt let me do damage. And, PvE was a pain in the ass...every other move was block or parry. Ok, the mob didnt hit me..but taking 5 mins to kill an orange con mob was doing my head in. Now, i have respecced to 50 pole, 42 shield (for the slam) and 39 thrust and i find i am much happier with that spec. With the added combo of end/healy pots killing red cons is no trouble at all. But, all in all..i feel that armsmen are the bastard child of Mythic. And the favourite sons seem to be Pally, merc and reaver. They all get loving of some sort or another and armsmen get squat. And for all the people who say take ML and RA into consideration....how the hell are we supposed to get decent (if you call MoB decent..only if you WANT to be a blockbot all your life) abilites.
It's about time Mythic game armsmen some sorely needed loving. How about End chant..just to help with the endurance sides of things...oh yeah..double speccing...wtf is that all about !!!!.
/why !!!!!