RVR Tactics guide For Albion

Red HATred

Fledgling Freddie
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Jan 25, 2004
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813
This is defenatly needed if Albs want a Chance in RVR in general.

Personally, wandering solo, you get confronted with the incompetency some players run by in RVR. (may sound offensive but if you only want rp's..; stay away. Doing what you should be doing will give you rp's. Messing up makes ppl lose. I do understand everybody wants to have fun in their own way, but try to have fun by showing you know what you are doing, we don't need jesters in a field of battle. The occasional hero is wanted but hardly ever found)

It seems it is impossible/verry hard , for Albion RVR players to create decent groups, all beceides the Ganking squads we have in FG guilds. So this advice here may be extremely handy for unorganized defence/offence. (which are about 80% of the offence/defence situations)

So pls Just RTFM and i hope it may be of some use.


Towers:

Instance 1: Recapturing a Tower

When Albion is in the offence on a tower, two major things are needed. And one , also important but not always needed add.
1: Troops to invade the tower upon opening the door. Most effective groups are the Pbaoe groups/bombing groups. If you have no Pbaoe troops availble you will have to relly on a combination of Tanks and interrupting troops to gain the upperhand. (Timing is the golden word)
2: ranged attacks: they focus on the ranged occupants to let the non-ranged troops get in range of the tower without getting shot down. (killing ranged defence will debuff them for a while so they are less hard to deal with until they are fully opperational again)
3: Defence support : ppl that patrol the area of the besieged tower ( ideal are the FG gank groups) to watch for incomming support of the enemy.

If you lack one of these two factors ( 1&2 ), your chance upon conquering a defended tower is practically ZERO. (unless you are dealing with an incompetent defence in that tower, low numbers, just bored players wanting to farm a bit of rps). This combination is also called a TEAM.

Ranged attacks: use:
1) Ballista's (be they deminutive of plain constructed once) these are extremely handy for tanks to use while they are defending the troops while either the tower is beeing destroyed or the gate is beeing opened. They can be used in combination with Hookpoint-Palintons to destroy the besieged tower's defence aparatusus. (remember only X siege apparatuses / object)
2) CONSTRUCTED trebuchets: This to save HOOKPOINTS OF BEEING WAISTED IN THE TIDE OF BATTLE. (If you CBA to learn how to build one, or you CBA to spend your gold on one, don't bother using a hookpoint on a tower/keep since you could be enrisking a full battle with you RP-farming attempt)
3) Archery: the best of the best for disabling enemy ranged troops. I've seen a LOT off verry good archers in Albion. But seeing that i realize they can't do all...

Hookpoints on Tower / Central keeps in range of the besieged tower:

NEVER FIELD A TREBUCHET ON THESE HOOKPOINT. There is only ONE instance where a trebuchet is handy, that would be if the Albion troops have the upperhand and have NOTHING to fear (as in: they are the Siege INITIATOR). Hereby i mean that there is NO THREAT of a counter siege. Personal judgement is required here( NOT :"huh huh me want rp's , me farm like moron" judgement, but a Winning spirited one).
If there is but ONE enemy trebuchet firing upon a nearby Tower/Keep use Palintons to disable the enemy trebuchets and siege equipment.

In general when conquering a defended tower it is a lot faster to disable the defences (hookpoints: first oil then interrupt roof campers via enemy treb or palinton) and open the door using a ram then it is to Completely destroy a tower and then start to work on the gate. (green con towers are going down pretty fast, but mostly if the offence has a plan they will have it levelled)

GOLDEN PIECE OF ADVICE WHEN TARGETTING:
In some instances it is hard to target the enemy Ram with a palinton, use the following trick to bypass all problems.
Walk to the ledge and pan-view till you have visual of the ram ( only a small corner is needed to target the ram ). Don't become a target when doing so :)
Then leave the CAMERA in position , default key is F11, and walk back to the apparatus, click the aparatus to re-open the USE menu and then use the camera position to aim for the ram). If you practice this two time you'll master it and be able to target all rams.

Instance 2:Defending a besieged tower

Hookpoints: Do NOT waist a hookpoint on a TREBUCHET... the main reason is that a trebuchet has a MINIMUM range and you have waisted the UTMOST valuable hookpoint on something that can only be off service for about 10 seconds of the defence.
If you want to splatter some AOE damage to gather a bit of RP's... group up with some suicidal PBaoe wizzy and a couple of healers and let him bomb the enemy.
If you field a trebuchet on the main hookpoints YOU are a possible cause of losing that defence fight. If the enemy makes a small ram, disables the oil, stays near the edge of the tower... all are screwed.
If this hookpoint remains open until it is NEEDED... when the enemy fields a ram, the person fielding a Palinton on that hookpoint IS the main reason why a defence could be won and a tower could be saved.
There is only ONE instance where a trebuchet on these hookpoints is usefull and that would be when the tower sieging equipment can be used in an OFFENCE versus an enemy central keep/tower. Even then, it would be a lot wiser to field a palinton and destroy the enemy sieging equipment to save the lifespann of the tower. The longer you keep a tower healthy the longer you will have the upperhand in an offence. IF you do outnumber the enemy 3/1 letting the tower go down won't matter if you focus on getting the main keep. Keeping the tower in shape, makes it defendable at all times when the tide of war changes. (offence becomes defence)
Always keep in mind that a tower used for a Central keep offence always will have about 2 enemy siege aparatusses on it. If the enemy fields two trebuchets and are both in range, they can cause havoc and the offence loses the upperhand because the tower will be destroyed in a minimum of time.

After this littany...; if you STILL deceide to use a trebuchet for some purpose USE it wise... DON'T use it to aim for players unless there is NOTHING else to destroy. Some ppl just can't help it to aim for the Rp's instead of the result.
I just hope that they do realize... if you aim correct you gain rp's.


Most of the albion sieges i have experience are not won because of style or competency , but only by numbers. Most offences i have esperienced from other realms are anticipated upon the knowledge of Albions weakness, disorganization, chaos. Albion only seems to win when they have numbers, i just hope my writin here could wake ppl up and fight like it should be. So some can win in style. (there are a couple of verry competent siege guilds out there but they are a minority, there are a lot off players that know how to judge accordingly but a majority doesn't.)

What would help also it for the Gm's of guild to inform their guildies with some minor tactics usable in warfare.

And again i repeat.... i do know all ppl go hunt to have fun.. but if ALL would jsut fight with the sam knowledge and the same ATTEMPT to obtain results they would realize they had fun in doing so.


sidenote:
PPL wouldn't have to go measure their "e-peen" by cheating an cross realming.. they would know it is fun to fight a war (in here) and win... upon logging-out they would also realize they have obtained nice results if that matters to them.
If you don't agree with me, i can predict you will be heading for certain death, either, you will cross the lines of CoC and violate the basic priciples to keep your spirit running, ending your toon before you reached your goal, or you will start using cheats and trick to gain the upper hand and keep you feeling good because you "think" you are a good player. Also getting bored of this eventually and just dissapear or go on a "holliday" . All those that sponsor solo play, full group play ALWAYS end up in the main war.. because there is no room for that and they realize that without violating principles it is impossible to obtain what they would want in here.

cheers
 

Puppet

Part of the furniture
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Dec 24, 2003
Messages
3,232
It's actually all quite useful comments and most of it its 100% true. No matter if you like Ironheart or hold a grudge against him: Personally Im always laughing when the enemy use a treb on a hookpoint and it gets destroyed in 2-3 mins by a Warlord using a Palintone :)
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
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Red HATred said:
GOLDEN PIECE OF ADVICE WHEN TARGETTING:
In some instances it is hard to target the enemy Ram with a palinton, use the following trick to bypass all problems.
Walk to the ledge and pan-view till you have visual of the ram ( only a small corner is needed to target the ram ). Don't become a target when doing so :)
Then leave the CAMERA in position , default key is F11, and walk back to the apparatus, click the aparatus to re-open the USE menu and then use the camera position to aim for the ram). If you practice this two time you'll master it and be able to target all rams.


:)

some good stuff in there.
 

Enli

Fledgling Freddie
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most of the tricks u can discover by staying calm and take time in what u're trying to accomplish
patience and brains are a lethal combination
 

Bugz

Fledgling Freddie
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May 18, 2004
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Although its all generally true, messing up and learning from mistakes is generally what comes with RvR.
 

Red HATred

Fledgling Freddie
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Jan 25, 2004
Messages
813
a little addition to my speech.


REPAIRING STUFF

YES!!!! If something is broken it MUST be repaired. Pick up a tradeskill, gain some woodworking, and ASSIST repairs. (it only take a couple of hours to gain a decent level)

As it is now.... there are only about 2-3 ppl that bother to repair or spend their time into fixing the broken stuff. While ALL others rush off towards their possible next 1k rp spot they leave all:
1) undefended
2) unrepaired
3) unprepared


Try to look at it this way, if an enemy has started a siege, there are two possible reasons why they did/do so:

1) just some bored hoodlums seeking attention
2) main purpose of achieving a major goal like crippling our realm

If a defence was succesfull it means that all there will gain rp's (not always a lot but nice and for free) If something is destroyed and you leave without taking responcebilities, you lay all responcebilities in a couple of ppl their hand and you treat them like fools. It is not because you THINK they like crafting or repairing that they DO like it. Most just do it because it is a responceble act to do.

If EVERYBODY at a defence puts in five minutes of their time into it, all repairs would be done in a MINIMUM of time and ALL ppl there could move out as a unit again. Or they will be ready for the next siege if the enemy returns.
Do a wood run with your group, because moving as a group willmake it safer for all to return , and not be intercepted by some fledlings.

If your keep is under siege, keep an eye open at the enemy siege
If our sieging Materials have illiminated theirs or the times on their aparatusses have run out there is a GAP.. During that period, with group efford, a LOT of the damage can be repaired.

To make sure a Gate is not beeing attacked, do two things

1)Save the OIL hookpoint till it is really needed.. there is a timer on sieging equipment, if you are dealing with a patient enemy they will use that. If the oil is up, it is a target for enemy fire, this also causes interruption of all troops on that platform hindering all casting , shooting.

2)Since there prolly always will be about 5-6 archers around try to get them organized and get a decent Groundtarget set in front of the gate. A combined volley can really scare the **** out of the gate attakers. Chaos will make them scatter and open for the finish. A simple , unstealth (to be sure all can assist you), /B archers Volley gtaoe assist me on the count of.. blabla .. you know what i mean. Talk to your realm-mates, it will makes things go better, not always faster, but better.



Tower NPC's.

If you are solo, or with a few ppl they are extremely handy from time to time. If 4 archers have a tower a cleric NPC for exemple on top of the tower is a MUST. The healer can heal enough to make you survive the Warlock DOT. Set the cleric for heal [more] and you will see , she/he heals better then the average buffbot. These NPC's also act like a decent radar if an enemy enters their radius (fairly big one)

If you are in a serious defence, do not bother to field them when the siege commenced. The NPC's can not move and are a vurnerable target to enemy AOE attacks, those interrup and cause havoc on platforms. The only spots where a NPC can be off use would be at the non besieged side, for exemple a cleric at the rear of the tower, on top of the tower... place the healers out of sight of the enemy... same reason as mentioned before, AOE attack.

Central keep NPC's

feel free to experiment with these. Since there is a LOT of room to avoid attacks in a Central keep... mistakes can be minimized. But still try to set up things with common sence, as in ..; healers out of vieuw... casters on ledges, scouts on ledges etc...
Experiments with the different options that the NPC's have availble, they can do funny stuff no other alb toon can do.


ok, this concluses another minor add, just some info what could help us all out there. Still feel free to do as all like off course... just a pov.


i took the liberty in writing this constructive posts because Flamers of these posts (looks two posts upwards) are always the FIRST to nagg if something goes wrong in there... typical off course. Easier to call someone a noob or an idiot, then to give some advice or a point of vieuw on how it could have been.
 

Calvin

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
96
One thing you should add to this is a point about rams.

Many a time my group has brought 3 rams with us to take down a door only to find some (insert random words here) jumping into the 1st ram and starting to drive it off while were building and trying to combine them to make a war ram. Very Very annoying especially if ur dealing with some really bugged keeps and trying to survive warlock dots.
 

Red HATred

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
813
Calvin said:
One thing you should add to this is a point about rams.

Many a time my group has brought 3 rams with us to take down a door only to find some (insert random words here) jumping into the 1st ram and starting to drive it off while were building and trying to combine them to make a war ram. Very Very annoying especially if ur dealing with some really bugged keeps and trying to survive warlock dots.

I have to be honest, when i first read it i was laughing my heart out. No offence meant though. Could picture it in front of me... a couple of ppl are sweating getting all rams sorted.. suddenly.... 6*6 tracktion.. vroooooum one ram takes off :)
I fully agree, it is extremely annoying if someone goes Joye-riding with ur tools.
 

Kagato

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 22, 2003
Messages
3,777
Couple of points to add

Another targetting trick for palintones when trying to target a ram *certain* enemies deliberatly try and hide out of view at an angle is to simply target the ram first before you open up the hookpoint.
right clicking and buying the palintone wont clear your targetted object so you can still aim at the ram you have targetted and walked out of sight off.

Salvaging rams does take awhile, but you get 100% wood back, i.e 900 ironwood for salvaging a war ram.

If your curious the salvage times are:

Siege ram 5 mins
Battle Ram 10 mins
War Ram 15 mins

Yes I was bored enough to try once.

Last but not least it IS possible to repair a field trebuchet thats being attacked by a palintone.
The arming and fire time of a palintone is 15 seconds, the combat timer is only 10 seconds, repairing the trebuchet takes about 5 seconds, which gives you the travel time of the bolt to get the timing right, yes it takes practise and is a bit of a knack, but its quite possible and bloody annoying for the enemy.
The best thing to do is count to 5 after the last hit on the treb, then tap repair once every second afterwards being careful not to cancel the repair by double tapping when the timer is up, if you timed it right the repair will finish just before the bolt lands and your back up to full again, and some poor bastard on the palintone is swearing.

note - this only works if a normal person is on the palintone, a Warlord with siegemaster is impossible to repair between.

Lots more to add but I just finished work and cba at moment.
 

Karatakus

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
43
One or two things I'd change m8, but a couple of good points made too.

Red Hatred said:
GOLDEN PIECE OF ADVICE WHEN TARGETTING:
In some instances it is hard to target the enemy Ram with a palinton, use the following trick to bypass all problems.
Walk to the ledge and pan-view till you have visual of the ram ( only a small corner is needed to target the ram ). Don't become a target when doing so :)
Then leave the CAMERA in position , default key is F11, and walk back to the apparatus, click the aparatus to re-open the USE menu and then use the camera position to aim for the ram). If you practice this two time you'll master it and be able to target all rams.

I don't think u can target a ram that close to a tower (from what I've experienced anyway). If the rams at distance, then its no probs whatsoever, but when it gets close to the tower, u'll get the message "the ram is too close to be attacked" or something like that, even with a palintone. I've had that happen to me a few times. U would be far better off by having archers set a gt in front of the doors where the ram is and volley the hell out of the occupants along with a ample supply of oil dumps on their heads.

When sieging a tower, rather than keep killing their oil and siege piece, concentrate on the tower itself, and treb it to bits. As soon as the tower dies, so does all its siege equipment. If ur attacking a keep, first kill the two towers closest to u so u disable most of their siege weapons facing u. Once they are dead, blow a hole in the wall and hit the inner keep, to take down the siege points on that too. I do agree with the choice of weapon for a siege point however. A palintone is an awesome siege weapon killer, and although trebs are more than handy, u can buy a mobile 1 and bring it with u to a siege, where as the palintones baby brother, the ballista, is nothing in comparison with the original in damage or range.

When sieging a keep, if u have no siege targets for ur palintone, don't let it rot, target FOPs and SoRs so u can aoe around them. I've even targetted a portal stone once when we knocked a hole in their wall by it. Was fantastic way to keep the hole clear. :D

Once u've used siege weapons on a tower or its doors and have destroyed the tower/opened the doors, have someone still shoot at them (even if its just with a bow). This will keep the tower/door in combat so people inside can't repair it. Ofc with the upcoming patch, now u'll just knock the tower down around their ears, but useful up to that point. Oh and if u just killed the oil with a ballista, don't change ur aim. Even tho the oil is no longer there ur ballista wil aoe that point, which is handy in keeping their heads down on the lower battlements. Lovely for annoying locks and keeping the lower battlements clear of shrooms :D
 

Matteh

Fledgling Freddie
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381
Can I get an estimate on the amount of wood needed to repair a little piece of door or wall please cuz whenever I've tried in lvl 50 rvr I never have enough. Also you can't have more than one person repair at the same time is that right?
 

Karatakus

Fledgling Freddie
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Matteh said:
Can I get an estimate on the amount of wood needed to repair a little piece of door or wall please cuz whenever I've tried in lvl 50 rvr I never have enough. Also you can't have more than one person repair at the same time is that right?

It depends on the level of the keep/tower and the level of the wood u use. When repairing a keep/tower u require a set amount of units for each repair. For instance when I was repairing a mid level tower the other day with my scout (think the tower was around lvl 5ish at the time tho might be wrong) it required 717 wood units for 1 repair. That worked out to be roughly 200 oaken boards or about 50 stonewood boards (very rough figures here :D). Needless to say I was going thru wood like nobodys business, and if it wasn't for all the convokers that kept me in wood supply, the repair attempt would have been very short lived (really grateful to all those guys that hung around supplying me with wood :D).

More than 1 person can repair at the same time, but due to the higher levels of woodworking skill and wood units required on the higher level towers/keeps, it is frequently more practical to have 1 repairer working on the damaged area. :)
 

Matteh

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Karatakus said:
It depends on the level of the keep/tower and the level of the wood u use. When repairing a keep/tower u require a set amount of units for each repair. For instance when I was repairing a mid level tower the other day with my scout (think the tower was around lvl 5ish at the time tho might be wrong) it required 717 wood units for 1 repair. That worked out to be roughly 200 oaken boards or about 50 stonewood boards (very rough figures here :D). Needless to say I was going thru wood like nobodys business, and if it wasn't for all the convokers that kept me in wood supply, the repair attempt would have been very short lived (really grateful to all those guys that hung around supplying me with wood :D).

More than 1 person can repair at the same time, but due to the higher levels of woodworking skill and wood units required on the higher level towers/keeps, it is frequently more practical to have 1 repairer working on the damaged area. :)


ok thx I hate the 'wood unit' thing cuz it's just not straight forward for me.

btw u got the biggest wannabe on daoc here <--- so ur ok
 

Red HATred

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Another small add to ther notes.


When You have managed to invade an enemy tower or keep, clear the keep or tower from enemies first.

if you fail clearing the enemies and the retake the Lord the keep willb e reset to full health , fully operationel.

if you capture the lord first you will prevent support from entering that i a fact, also prevent those still inside of fleeing.

If you would however fail in retaking the keep , because some realms are better roof campers then albs are, the full fight will have to start from scratch. Gate, hookpoints etc... all is operationel again
 

Tilda

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Can someone post a guide to rams please, whenever I try, i suck with them, would be nice to know how to work them propperly! (And drive them, it seems sometimes they can be driven, other times they cant)

Tilda
 

RandomDotCom

Fledgling Freddie
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Red HATred said:
Another small add to ther notes.


When You have managed to invade an enemy tower or keep, clear the keep or tower from enemies first.

if you fail clearing the enemies and the retake the Lord the keep willb e reset to full health , fully operationel.

if you capture the lord first you will prevent support from entering that i a fact, also prevent those still inside of fleeing.

If you would however fail in retaking the keep , because some realms are better roof campers then albs are, the full fight will have to start from scratch. Gate, hookpoints etc... all is operationel again

1.75 changes this (given the tower is at 0% health) so this comment isn't AS important. when taking back a tower such as sursbroke t2 which has been trebed to dust, you just run in, kill the lord and then have a nice party with the local mid/hib :fluffle: or just do what albs normally do - throw RA's everywhere like morons zerg zerg zerg zerg zerg /sigh
 

Red HATred

Fledgling Freddie
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Tilda said:
Can someone post a guide to rams please, whenever I try, i suck with them, would be nice to know how to work them propperly! (And drive them, it seems sometimes they can be driven, other times they cant)

Tilda


/control

only the person controlling the ram can move it... upon jumping into the ram you should check it, either you are an assist or the driver. if no one is inside the ram, select ram and use /control

Use "set gtaoe target" to drive over land

target gate or wall, press move

when arriving at designated target you will see the bar "loading" moving

to operate a ram perfectly, all ppl in the ram should practice timing...

just before the bar is full you click , i think it is fire/assist.

Your result of support will be given by:


Your feeble show of strenght blablabla .... : means you failed to time it perfectly

You superior show of strenght blablabla ...: means you timed it perfectly

No comment..... : means you didn't help that round.


Timing isn't based group wise, just personally. You just need to click at the end of the load bar.


If all ppl assisting inside a ram practice this the damage gets added.


total damage is : base damage + X / assist + X bonus for timing assist



if you want to practice ramming, moving and targetting, the Egg of youth event is the place to be.. also a perfect moment to get some ppl to kill sillillia for the wanted drops ;-)

Duo it with: necro and heal bot (or equal combo)
Second person builds a deminutive siege ram. have fun. It takes about an hour and a half to do it alone, but after one kill you will master the ram.
 

Galoma

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Matteh said:
Can I get an estimate on the amount of wood needed to repair a little piece of door or wall please cuz whenever I've tried in lvl 50 rvr I never have enough. Also you can't have more than one person repair at the same time is that right?

Depends on the level of the tower / keep and your woodworking level...

if level 1 its almost nothing and u can repair it very cheap...

if its level 10 u need a shitload... 710-900 ironwood each time... cant remember... for that u need to have a few ppl running to get the wood... as much as they can carry... this will also help on the cost so its not the poor crafter paying it all... :cheers:
 

Konah

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high utility, high damage, high survivability alb classes:

sorc, cabby, theurg, merc, friar, paladin, reaver

pick and mix, add 2 decent clerics and your good to go.
 

mincepie

Fledgling Freddie
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215
imo stop tellin every1 how to play good in RvR.....


cause im a hibie mwahahaha >< :twak:
 

Red HATred

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Patch note...

think before you act..

if you are in a foreign region it is unwise to Destroy a tower... tactically spoken you leave a spot vurnerable. If you wish to obtain porting status , you should be able to keep it longer, since a razed tower switches owner every other minute or so.. porting can be hindered.

This may not be of use in the useless campaigns that are beeing held these days, but in a major campaign it is verry important to have no weaknesses when it comes to eg. opening relic gates.

If you are in your own fronteer, razing a tower would indeed make sure you get rid of the enemies a lot faster, eventually they will give up on capturing that point which give you the final word.


last note to add: the repairing part i wrote in an earlier post has become EXTREMELY important in this patch.
 

aaaaaaa

Banned
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Red HATred said:
if you are in a foreign region it is unwise to Destroy a tower... tactically spoken you leave a spot vurnerable. If you wish to obtain porting status , you should be able to keep it longer, since a razed tower switches owner every other minute or so.. porting can be hindered.
Can't agree more, however if it's foreign keep you can't port to, even when controling all towers as well (all foreign non-coastal keeps) razing those towers can be advisable. BURN WHAT YOU CAN'T CONTROL!

Red HATred said:
If you are in your own fronteer, razing a tower would indeed make sure you get rid of the enemies a lot faster, eventually they will give up on capturing that point which give you the final word.
I agree on razing towers of a home keep you can't port to (all coastal keeps, with Benowyc as an exeption), for all other home keeps razing towers is not acvisable and should only be done in extreme matters.
 

aaaaaaa

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Konah said:
high utility, high damage, high survivability alb classes:

sorc, cabby, theurg, merc, friar, paladin, reaver

pick and mix, add 2 decent clerics and your good to go.

You've forgotten heretics
 

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