RvR - Server weighting

[Roo Stercogburn]

Been thinking about this since last night.

As everyone on Prydwen knows there were a couple of relic raids. One planned (and well organised, thanks to Onslaught's Kolja, er or Noita, or both, um I was speaking to Noita through Kolja at one point and was very confused ) and one just done on the back of it as a look-see since we had a lot of Mids looking for something to hit

Now I know there are more things coming soon to balance things like the realm guards squealing on GU and stuff (e.g. Corpse Summoners), but I wondered if perhaps Mythic haven't gone too far this time in aiming the product at high population-base servers.

The number of players online on Prydwen at any time is significantly lower than pretty much any other server, yet it is still a vibrant, busy community of players in all 3 realms. Given that the high population-base servers require a lower percentage of their total population to achieve a relic raid, I'm wondering if now its going to be nigh on impossible to do prime time raids on Prydwen since an increasingly significant portion of the player base is going to be needed. In fact, is it going to be possible to do anything much more than skirmish on small to medium scale?

I'm basically wondering if there is any balance in the changes to help lower population servers, or if its all aimed at the large player-base servers, and if so, are Mythic really looking after their entire customer base, or simply making life easy for themselves by going with the please-the-majority approach. If so, this has disturbing long term implications for Prydwen.

I'm also wondering what the future of RvR on lower population servers is going to be like and if its damaged or enhanced by the changes RvR is going through. Is the new content welcome and brings more flavour to RvR, or does it just make realm level warfare too difficult to organise?

This is in the general section rather than Prydwen, since though I'm using Prydwen as an example, it could affect many servers as more international servers are brought online around the world.

 

[Nightchill]

I didn't think the level 50 playerbase was that different between Prydwen and Excalibur?

Regarding relic raids, surely it just takes that bit more organising on a lower population server? The hibs manage them, the albs manage them, the mids certainly can

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

I could be wrong but I don't think any relic has changed hands since 1.54 went in on Prydwen.

Granted, its early days yet.

 

[mavericky]

You are right Roo, the changes have made it almost impossible for a Prime Time relic raid at the moment. I dont think any relics have changed hands since the patch either.

When we get corpse summoners though things will change there are tactics you can use with these that make it easier again, so it looks like Mythic realised they went to far in relic defenders favour.

I am a strong believer that relics changing hands often is a good thing for the game and at the moment it is way to hard.

 

[Validus]

now thats a whine with style! look and learn ppl!

 

[Esoteric]

As I recall on prydwen hibs and mids have never attempted a good prime time raid they always do it at 3 in the morning and I log on to see relics gone (shrugs)

 

[old.Hellskor]

Originally posted by Esoteric
As I recall on prydwen hibs and mids have never attempted a good prime time raid they always do it at 3 in the morning and I log on to see relics gone (shrugs)

pardon me ?

actually it's only the Albs that totally rely on raids-at-ungodly-hours.

Hibs got the Power Relics on a prime-time raid, Mids haven't done an early-morning/late-night raid for like half a year.

Guess how many Prime-time Raids Alb has (atleast) tried in that time ... not one.

 

[wumba]

dont worry ill come help u out at mid prydw creating alt now..

 

[mavericky]

Originally posted by Esoteric
As I recall on prydwen hibs and mids have never attempted a good prime time raid they always do it at 3 in the morning and I log on to see relics gone (shrugs)

I am guessing that you are talking about the excal server then but if not then.....


:chortle: lol maybe you get AM and PM muddled up so that you think 3pm on a sunday is a 3am raid.

The last successful few relic raids Mid made were all primetime, and since 1.54 we have attemped several other primetime raid, I am sure that you might be able to look up a few other posts that mention 250 mids in emain at primetime.

 

[Aule Valar]

relic raids are virtually impossible on excal too at the moment, although we can muster the number necessary more easily, once we have done so all the defenders need to do is appear and weeeee down goes the zone
although hopefully the new servers will counter this a little
once corpse sumoners come in its gonna be hell trying to take keeps without assasin legions to kill the resser by the corpse master, should make relic staging a little easier, although its more likely to just lead to repeated huge zerg vs zerg fights

 

[Generic Poster]

Originally posted by Esoteric
As I recall on prydwen hibs and mids have never attempted a good prime time raid they always do it at 3 in the morning and I log on to see relics gone (shrugs)

Of the last 4 successfull relic raids on prydwen, 3 were primetime.

Albs took STR relics from hib(early evening, I think)
Hibs took Power relics from Mid(evening)
Mids took STR relics from Alb(evening)
Albs took STR relics from Mid(~10am(GMT))


That's to the best of my memory. There were a couple of 'single' relic takes in between, and both were late at night(~3am).


All three realms are capable of prime-time raids.

 

[old.Hellskor]

Originally posted by Generic Poster



Of the last 4 successfull relic raids on prydwen, 3 were primetime.

Albs took STR relics from hib(early evening, I think)
Hibs took Power relics from Mid(evening)
Mids took STR relics from Alb(evening)
Albs took STR relics from Mid(~10am(GMT))


That's to the best of my memory. There were a couple of 'single' relic takes in between, and both were late at night(~3am).


All three realms are capable of prime-time raids.

You call that Prime-time ?

10:00am on a Sunday morning ... roflmao

 

[old.TeaSpoon]

We'll keep praticing so we can be teh uber and take them primetime like rest of you.

We got them, the end. All the Excaliber defending is wubbly for the old RPS

 

[old.Atrox]

Originally posted by old.Hellskor


You call that Prime-time ?

10:00am on a Sunday morning ... roflmao

maybe he meant:
Albs took STR relics from hib(early evening, I think)

Anyway relics are way harder to take now, you can still do it, it only takes some planning.

 

[decline]

Originally posted by Generic Poster



Of the last FOUR successfull relic raids on prydwen, THREE were primetime.

#1) Albs took STR relics from hib(early evening, I think)
#2) Hibs took Power relics from Mid(evening)
#3)Mids took STR relics from Alb(evening)

Irregular time one:
Albs took STR relics from Mid(~10am(GMT))


That's to the best of my memory. There were a couple of 'single' relic takes in between, and both were late at night(~3am).


All three realms are capable of prime-time raids.

Originally posted by Old.Hellskor
You call that Prime-time ?

10:00am on a Sunday morning ... roflmao

Read again Hellskor.

Also, I think without corpse summoners atm, it's impossible to get relics now, and even with, it'll be a problem with loads of assasins on the healers at the keeps rezzing the corpses...

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Guys, the question asked is basically are Mythic looking after lower population servers and the players on there properly. Its actually a fairly fundamental long term issue.

This affects all realm level events: dragon raids, relic raids, Darkness Falls epic mobs etc. Not sure if the new SI beasties will require a whole realm or not but I'm betting its a resounding yes for many of the epics there.

It was just the relic raid that got me thinking so posted on here to ask what you all thought and perhaps get some kind of answer if anyone knew or had evidence.

The answer could quite easily be Yes: suppose they did their stuff on the test server deliberately with a lower population test prior to implementing these changes or put in place mechanisms to weight the difficulties by population base.

I'll be more than happy if the answer is Yes.

Kinda figured before posting there'd be the odd , given the nature of the post, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise

 

[Aule Valar]

I'm pretty sure they lowered Apocalypse's hits and magic resits in one of the later patches, so that problaby indicates that either he was too hard for anyone, or they lowered it for the smaller servers

 

[mavericky]

What would be good is for epic mobs, and to an extent relic keeps to change in difficulty depending on how many people are in the zone/online, so that a dragon would be just as hard to take out with 75 people as compared to 300 people. Hopefully make it that tactics count rather than who zergs hardest.

 

[Aule Valar]

thats a very iffy idea, all you need is a exp groups in the same area and bye bye raid, most especially legion with over 100 people often exping in df

you'd have to put a minimum cap on it too, or the dragons would end up getting soloed

 

[kr0n]

Low-server population has it's upsides and downsides.

Less people attending raids, thus creating a better environment for people to actually manage to PLAY instead of watching Diashow of 5 seconds per frame.

I understand what you mean, Mythic designed the ruleset for 2-3000 players @ peak, while Prydwen has maybe 1500 tops.

Possible solutions? Weren't they planning already to make some adjustments to certain servers rulesets to compensate on single realms inability to compete with other realms? I dont know if they came through with this, I haven't heard of it afterwards tho.
Would it be possible to change some settings, like, amount of guards, hitpoints of Relic Keep doors... Probably yes, but balancing it would be hard I guess.

And to the Relic Raid primetime issue, every realm has done early morning, night and primetime raids. Just all havent succeeded in "Prime Time" raids.

With current ruleset its near impossible to snatch a relic, ESPECIALLY from Hibs @ Primetime.

1. Guards annoucing they got killed.
2. Emain is the only way to relics and its usually HEAVILY populated during primetime. Last time mids tried, we got notified before they even left MMG.

Game is on 24/7. Anything can be done during that time, there is no rule, should be no moral disputes with doing a nighttime raid.

I'd suggest, that we "write" a Code of Relic Raids, "Must do at least 3 Prime Time relic raids before you can attempt a raid between 01-10GMT." Or something as stupid. Just raid when you want to raid, they'll get it back with the same cheeky way.

 

[rynnor]

I dont think the corpse summoner can compensate for the recent changes - I really dont think primetime raids are viable anymore unless you have the determination to raid again and again and again until defenders are exhausted/doors knackered.

Certainly sneaking a quick raid in primetime is out.

Quick raids will only happen outside primetime now.


Alternatively forget about relics changing hands although the game loses a lot without it.