RvR Eldritch vs Enchanter

[oblivion_6]

lol

has it been so long since ive played ?

those em albie things with bows hunters?/?

man i need to log in tonight and get back into this game lol

 

[Nemue]

Originally posted by oblivion_6
u dont mention void elds

my voidey can 1 shot rangers and other mages if i spot them soon enough

No chanter can do that at long range

I did mention void

"Void: supposedly to be a pure dmg-line, apart from the great dmg of the bolts when used in the right situation the dmg of this line pathetic, decent utilities in certain situation, GTaoe is always very useful in stationary fighting, and the debuffs are quite good, altho not nearly as useful as the chanters as few have spells that deal energy/spirit/body, energy being the most useful as pbaes and DoT's are energybased, body is good to increase mezz-time and assassinpoisons, but those situations where are rare to nonexistant."

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Aldias: My argument still stands , Elds have great utility, as you point out, but when it comes to dmgdealing they won't even be near tha _capacity_ of a manachanter. My arguments does not aim at pointing out which class is the _best_ class, simply pointing out their strengths (and weaknesses in some cases ).

Don't know about the mezzbreaking idea you and tyka mentioned, afaik all negative effects break mezz, where only dmg of any kind break root, the fact that debuffed ppl can't move after debuff may simply be coz they are heavily encumbered due to the str/con debuff., but i won't argue that, haven't tested it.

In anycase, in order to deal any of it's heavy dmg the manachanter must use it's debuff, there's simply no compromise there, no debuff = no dmg (if the target has resists near 40%+)

debuff + stun makes the stun last it's full duration (assuming it's not a tank with determination), so it doesn't really matter if the debuff breaks mezz, it onlty drains some extra mana for the chanter.

 

[old.Xanthian]

Originally posted by Nemue

Elds: however damagedealing capacity without having a friend debuff is next to pathetic.

I take it you have never played a lvl 50 Light Eld then?

 

[Amadon]

last time I tested, mana eld insta str/con debuff broke mez, I will check again tonight

disease is imo the most useful spell of all, it halves healers' effectiveness, reduces str and con, and it has a 10% unbreakable snare effect, combined with the insta str/con debuff, and if you have pbt, with the ae attack speed debuff it can do a great deal to nullify tanks effectiveness

regarding damage, when grouped with a void eld (thanks Garba ) who debuffs energy, my DD hits cap about 90% of the time at 570 dmg, and has a 30% snare on it. I have not found a single tank that can get to me from range before it's dead if Garba's debuffed it, and if it's not at range and is debuffed, pbaoe will destroy it (cap of 1029 dmg is nice)
it's not as much damage as 2 mana chanters or a mana chanter/light caster would do, but it's still very decent.

mana eld pbae is as good as chanter pbae with dex buff and capped dex

in a group I think elds are better, solo I think chanters are, mainly because the utility elds have is awesome

 

[Nemue]

No i have not played a lightspecced eld to 50, but afaik their speccline DD delves for the same dmg as my lightspecced mentalists, and her lvl45 speccline DD hits for shit more often than not (i see dmg like 230 (-170) more frequently than not)

so unless lightelds have a secret debuffcomponent in their DD that's not listed on the herald i recon they're in the same boat as all the other lightspecced mages.

 

[oblivion_6]

he has a point ive seen the damage a 50 light eld can do and its quite impressive

even my lv 50 light DD often outperforms my void DD on mobs but this might be due to different resists etc

 

[Nemue]

Originally posted by oblivion_6
he has a point ive seen the damage a 50 light eld can do and its quite impressive

even my lv 50 light DD often outperforms my void DD on mobs but this might be due to different resists etc

All lightspecced nukes are great with impressive damage when there are none or little resists on the target, on an alb/mid with no resist i can nuke for 450 - 500 dmg no problems, when they have 26% resists from items + resistsbuffs the damage isn't quite so impressive no more, and this goes for all casters DD except the chanters who can debuff his own damagetype.

 

[-Nuked-]

did some small tests on solo mobs with my aoe mezz .. instant debuffs did all break my mezz .. these mobs were grey con - may still be different for albs/mids though

 

[Tyka]

I'm sure it does not work against invaders. But maybe it is as someone said that they were rooted, pretty sure i tried this in a duel and the guy in question was still mezzed.

 

[Brennik]

The fact still is that there's "too many" manachanters and too few other casters out there. Then again, I'm biased because I think more utility is better than straight damage. Though you can have best of both worlds by grouping with the appropriate people.

 

[geldor]

aoe strength con debuf defenatly dosnt break mess im sure of it tested it in duels then on enemys

 

[inuyasha]

yeah yeah

Of course mana eldriches is better then a mana chanter inside a keep, case the enchanters dont really have any ranged attocks worth mentioning (the debuff is not for this uses)

If the debuff does not break mess, then that is a impressive feature i did not know off, and make elds more on the better side of this indeed.

However...the light blasts is totaly gimped out, and a single target blast dealing 250 damage pr. blast is worth...less. The area mess have its uses, but barely any with a bard in the group, and afaik you dont willingly leave DL without one

I was mostly speaking of fg on fg or 2fg on 2fg encounter, and if you mess your enemy first. If you dont, and dont use a GP, you have lost, since you are the messed part. What i am speaking of after that is simply to kill the messed targets before they have time to awake and kill your group.

The chanter can here: pbaoe slammed targets or, debuff and blast a single target where their pet alone can deal close to 3-400damage (also heat line), and have a snare equal to the mana blasts elds get in addition to having the enchanters blast as well.

Void: no heavy area damage (the aoe is 1/4 of ench pbaoe ) gtaoe (great for keeps, useless for fg encounters) but a good bolt for killing single targets without resist. This void eld share role with ns and ranger, and do not have stealth and their "pa" can be evaded, resisted, blocked, parried?, miss or "target in combat"

Light: Area mess, rarely usable. Nearsight: powerfull tool, but not really the one win button. No area damage at ALL in this spec, which is a big drawback. With resists, i assume they do the same damage as my light ench does without debuff on single targets, 2-300dd on most targets, which is rather crappy tbh.

Mana: Utility spec. At the setting i described, you do not get a area blast in before the bard mess your opponoment. The bard lead the group, and he mess as soon as he see someone (quite regular eh? ) If the debuff works on messed targets without breaking, this might equal the score a little, if not you simply sit there with 1 sec later pbaoe and no pet nor debuff. I have to admit i had forgotten the diesease, and even so that the fights rarely last long enough for this to matter, the mix of con debuff and diesease might be a matter to settle the fight. Respect to this. You also have the slow blast, beeing although just a little more heavy then the one of the enchanter pet, its a different line spec line, and its self castable, so its rather usable.

Taking this into consideration, the two mana specs are both decent, and i assume like others that enchanters are picked case they are: waaay better soloers, better in groups and have a kite pet and runsong, whoom both are nice tools to level with.

Void/enchantment and light however....all was great before SC, but just dont make one now .D

 

[old.Xanthian]

Insta's dont break mezz (unless its an insta DD)
So thats Dex/Qui debuffs, Str/Con debuffs, AE Attack Speed Debuffs.

Castables do break mezz
ie AE Disease, Nearisght etc..

Light Eld's DD is the same as Ments and Chanters Light DD.
In RVR with MoM2 my dmg cap is 666, I wont hit that unless sumone debuffs the target, but on buffed players I will to 300-500 dmg with it (when im buffed 287 INT). Which when you think most tanks will have 1800-2000 HP is quite a big chunk of HP. Casters usually go down in 3 DD's, sometimes 2 with a nice crit
On the high RR players with SC kits and AoM3+ and resist buffs, it will still do over 200 damage, my worst so far was on Gunnerr 210(-320)

PBAOE and DD's cannot be compared imo
PBAOE is high dmg for a reason, you sacrifice having to be on top of your enemy to do maximum dmg and risk being twatted, whereas DD's are designed to do moderate damage at a safe range (1500).
I was mana spec after SC came in, and with the high resists you get when using pbaoe, its just not worth the risk involved, since then I respecced Light and can say that ranged DD's are much better

 

[Arnor]

or you could be a dumb sheep jumping the bandwagon and make a chanter

 

[old.Aldias]

Posted by Xanthian
PBAOE is high dmg for a reason, you sacrifice having to be on top of your enemy to do maximum dmg and risk being twatted, whereas DD's are designed to do moderate damage at a safe range (1500).

Well.....pbaoe is in mana spec....

mana spec = defence

Pbaoe is a defence spell basically...not offence...its the best defence u can get for u urself if u have MoC of course...that y i chose mana from light....

Unfortunatelly there aint many good healers at least in hibernia in rvr
Mages die first all the time and healers stick to heal tanks than mages most of times....( i am talking general )...personal i dont trust healers ....only if i know them well

Where pbaoe is usefull :
Most important reason isnt for zerg but is ro keep u alive from stealthers who pop on u on time u nuke another enemy....
in that case u need a healer always close to u otherwise u r dead....with pbaoe u can solo 2stealthers who attack u without healing...of course u need MoC

Nice point Xan but....think this situation ....and happens very often in rvr ....and if u r in gimp grp .....light eld is dead....mana eld as well will be dead but has more possibilities to be alive

Mages general is very complicated class....I start this thread for this point :
When u make a mage u have to think many things not only the dmg and the cast time....1 main point is for rvr how long can a mage be alive?
....for the new guys....think about it b4 make a mage

 

[Amadon]

tbh I tend to feel pretty guilty in groups, because I seem to hog all the healing

Most healers I've grouped with will heal me if I'm not dead in 2 seconds.. if I have MoC up, that's great because it's bye-bye tanks, if I don't, it sucks because very few tanks seem to think slamming other tanks is a good idea, so I end up getting all the healing while standing around useless, it's got to a point where I actually ask healers to not waste their mana on me if no tank is rushing to my aid

imo you'd have to be mad to roll a caster for open rvr now, although perhaps by the time you hit 50 Mythic will have woken up and fixed resists.. it's not likely tho imo

if you want a rvr caster, roll a champ

 

[Nemue]

Regarding the mezz issue, here's the description taken from camelotheralds spell library:

Mesmerise (AOE)
Target is stunned and cannot move or take any other action for the duration of the spell. Spells cast by friendly players, resistances to the spell's damage type, or realm abilities such as "Purge" and "Determination" can help to counteract the effect. If the target suffers any damage or other negative effect, the spell will break. This is an "Area of Effect" (AOE) spell which can affect multiple targets in the spell's radius. The spell's effect may be more easily resisted further away from the spell's center.

<shrug>

 

[old.Aldias]

Nemue.....we talking for INSTANT deduff...not ordinary debuff with cast time......

This description is general for the game....well i have to say rvr with xp has some lil defferences

On mobs if u cast any type of debuff the mez break....but in rvr INSTANT debuff doesnt break the mezz....i did b4 many times and no time the mez broke....

 

[Nemue]

Don't blaim me for the herald-description, I didn't write it

Merely spreading mythics infinite wisdom :þ

 

[old.Xanthian]

I manage to out-live tanks in alot of rvr situations, dunno why..
But I certianly live longer than the PBAOE mages do, they are like Kamikazi mages, run in, take 10 down with pbaoe and die. Leaving ranged casters and tanks to finish the job.

I do agree there arent many good healers about, but I dont usually join random groups anyway but I must say the healers in VGN are top notch