revised PC spec

[Titan Moist]

I posted not so long ago regarding a cheap but effective gaming rig, at the time my budget was around £500-700.
Things have changed and I am now able to to afford £1,500 MAX.

I went to my local pc store and here is what the guy on the counter recomended..

DESCRIPTION QUANTITY PRICE INC VAT
____________________________________________________________________

COOLERMASTER AQUAGATE WATER COOLER (1) £ 58.69

512 FX7900-GTX SLI DDR3 PCI-EX TVO+DVI (2) £469.88

ASUS M2N32-SLI DLX nF590 AM2 SATA2 GB LAN (1) £152.69

AMD AM2 ATHLON DUALCORE X2 4600+(WINDSOR) (1) £199.69

1GB KINGSTON 677 (PC5400) DDR2 DIMM MEMORY (2) £187.88

MS WINDOWS XP PRO X64 EDITION OEM (1) £105.69

150GB WD RAPTOR 10K RPM SERIAL ATA 16MB HDD (1) £198.28

BTC BLACK 16XDVD 48 CD-ROM IDE OEM (1) £ 17.57

SAMSUNG SH 182D 18X-/+R DL DVD WRITER (1) £ 37.54

SYSTEM LABOUR CHARGE 1 £ 47.00

TOTAL--------------------------------------------------------£1474.91

as you can see there is a labour charge involved should i wish it to be built or me.
Unfortunatly the GFX cards come as a bundle pack and include a couple of free games, the assistant told me if i didn't want the games he would reduce the cost or upgrade one or more of the components equivilant to the price of the games.

What do you guys think?

im not a PC whizz so your help is much appreciated. If you think my money could be spent better in other areas please say why, rather than just saying (xxxx) is better than (xxxx)

 

[Ballard]

- Where is the case and PSU?? Never skimp on these, especially with that setup you will need a good 650W+ PSU.

- The ram is rather expensive for DDR2-666. What are the timings on it?

- I think the CPU is too expensive. Its the about the same price as a E6600 but no where near as good. You will also get better oc'ing results with a conroe on air compared to that CPU with a water cooler.

- I think the graphics setup is badly chosen.
One 8800GTX will cost about the same as that SLI setup but also;
* consistently beat any pre8800 SLI setup in allmost all benchmarks
* be DX10 compliant for better performance on vista
* Use less power

- If you are a PC novice and are going to pay for the PC to built, its reasonably safe to say you wont be OC'ing it so you really dont need a water cooler or an expensive Mobo like that.

 

[Ballard]

Yep thought so;

here is that CPU at my local store;

http://www.playtech.co.nz/product.php?action=showdetail&id=2239

$NZ432, which converts to 149.29 pound. 50 quid too much that is a fucking rip off my friend. Dont shop at that store they will most likely be ripping you on the other parts aswell.

 

[Hawkwind]

My second Rig has following:

M2N32Sli Delux Mobo
Athlon X2 4600
2Gb of Corsair XMS2 PC 6400
2 x BFG 7900 GS 256Mb in Sli
2 x 100 Gb Sata Drives
1 x Imation DvD/CD Writer
Thermaltake aluminium case - can't remember model
Antec 550W PSU

Its great, got most of the bits from Overclosckers.co.uk and rest from dabbs.com.

Playing DAOC on this rig rox no lag or zerg lag and frame rate is excellent. However I do get disconnected occasionally. Seems to happen after at least 1 hours play and all PERF indicators are Green. It does not do the usual Red on Con/Loss for 20 secs then to Disconnected page. It literally goes from running around emain to instant LD. Other Rig and Dell XPS lappy remain connected through the same router. All machines wired to the 4 port hub of a netgear router (new but cant remember model right now - its white )

Also get lockups in iExplorer more often on this rig than other two machines. Again usually after its been on a while. Done all the usual RAM/disk/virus checks. I now suspect the On-board Ethernet chipset and will steal a board from work to test this. Just wondered if anyone with similar setup had any experience with this?

 

[Titan Moist]

must have not pasted it all in correctly.

case is EYE-T model number 9980 and comes with PSU 450W but im replacing it with 650+ anway.
(650W Akasa power plus V3 4x12V SLI ready PSU) = £93.94 inc VAT.

"The ram is rather expensive for DDR2-666. What are the timings on it?"
I don't know, will the shop be able to tell me?

this card is £500, is it the one your speaking about? to replace my X2 512's

BFG GeForce 8800 GTX OC 768MB Silent WaterCooled GDDR3 HDTV/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-037-BG) £514.99

 

[Ballard]

ye thats it should be able to find it slightly cheaper than that. Costs NZ$1200 here (about 420 pound). The performance of that beasty is obscene.

First thing i would do is shop around a bit. That store has high prices and then they have the cheek to charge you to assemble it... Either ditch that store or check all the prices against what you can find on the net then take the best prices back to that store and ask them if they can match them.

 

[Naffets]

I'd also use a conroe as Ballard said

A64 x2's suck by comparison. Conroe pricing starts at about £130 and you can oc the shit out of it

 

[scorge]

for SLI i would reccommend going with ATI cards if you can, so far the out perform the nvidia ones, in some cases a single ati sli card (non crossfire mode) had better FPS than a quad nvida SLI. In all the benchamarks i have seen ATi was the same if not better in about 8 out of 10 tests.

 

[Ballard]

for SLI i would reccommend going with ATI cards if you can, so far the out perform the nvidia ones, in some cases a single ati sli card (non crossfire mode) had better FPS than a quad nvida SLI. In all the benchamarks i have seen ATi was the same if not better in about 8 out of 10 tests.

I think anyone who has put two 8800GTX's in SLI would beg to differ

 

[Tesla Monkor]

If you're willing to buy this:

512 FX7900-GTX SLI DDR3 PCI-EX TVO+DVI (2) £469.88

Then you might just as well buy a 8800GTX, which will be just as expensive and faster than your SLI cards. And it can go in SLI as well, when you feel like buying a second card at a later date.

 

[scorge]

I think anyone who has put two 8800GTX's in SLI would beg to differ

Maybe the 8800 will make a differance, still as far as i have seen ATI in crossfire beat Nvida quad SLI, the 8800 does appear quiet a good buy though, even if you just buy the one card for now


http://uk.gamespot.com/features/6156171/p-7.html

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4812

http://tomshardware.co.uk/2006/11/08/geforce_8800_uk/page6.html

http://tomshardware.co.uk/2006/08/08/get_quad_sli_before_it_is_hatched_uk/

http://tomshardware.co.uk/2006/08/09/a_tale_of_two_gts_uk/page5.html#benchmark_results

 

[Titan Moist]

I didn't think to ask them to pprice match some parts. Wonder if they would?
I know where I work we don't price match to internet prices because technically E-shops don't have a geological location, and price match TC's in most retail will not price match goods unless they're in a 7mie radius or whatever. BUT! since they are trying to squeeze that much cash out of me, they are loosing a big sale to refuse me.

On a side note, done a bit of shopping and i can find some of the componants cheaper.

if i can avoid it I don't want to OC my machine, for 1 I don't know how to do it and 2 Ive heard bad things about it, shortening the psu's life and frying them ect

whats better about te conroe over AMD by the way?

 

[Ballard]

I didn't think to ask them to pprice match some parts. Wonder if they would?

You shouldnt be shopping at a store that is trying to rip you off Any store that trys to sell a CPU for 25% more than its retail value is trying to rip you off. The link I provided is not for an E-shop, its a bricks and mortar store not far from where I live.

if i can avoid it I don't want to OC my machine, for 1 I don't know how to do it and 2 Ive heard bad things about it, shortening the psu's life and frying them ect

whats better about te conroe over AMD by the way?

- The operating temperature of a conroe is lower, all things being equal this will mean a longer life for the CPU.
- Out of the box Conroe's out perform their AMD equivalents by a significant margin. It is an expensive PC you have priced out (500 quid more than mine cost to build) it should have a very good CPU in it.
- I have always favoured AMD chips but honestly AMD need a complete overhaul of their chips to become competitive again. At the mid-to-top end of the market there is no reason why you should get an AMD chip at this time.
- Even if you dont want to overclock, the potential is there. Even on the stock CPU cooler a relative novice can OC there CPU by 10-20% with very little if any change in the operating temperature (hence no extra risk of damaging the CPU). At the moment my OC'ed 6600 (a $500 cpu) runs faster than a stock E6800 (a $1800 cpu) in all the benchmarks I have tested (Super pi, prime, etc..) while operating at 35 degrees, a comparison is my semperon at stock speed operates at 45c!!.

 

[Titan Moist]

thanks everyone for your advice, especially Ballard

might have covered it before but what GFX set up do you think i should use? burget for the gfx was £500 but I could probably go a little bit over that.
If i can buy 1 card for the price of 2 SLI cards but have a better bang fr my buck, ill do it

 

[Ballard]

thanks everyone for your advice, especially Ballard

might have covered it before but what GFX set up do you think i should use? burget for the gfx was £500 but I could probably go a little bit over that.
If i can buy 1 card for the price of 2 SLI cards but have a better bang fr my buck, ill do it

There are quite a few options for the high end market; in rough price order...

1) If you want great graphics at moderate screen resolutions then a single 7900GTX or X1950XTX will deliver amazing graphics. Both cards can easily run the latest games at max or close to max settings on moderate resolution settings ( generally 1280*1024 and less). A single card will also be a lot more friendly on your PSU and wallet while still generating amazing graphics.

2) SLI or crossfire the above two cards (or lower models like the 7900GS or x1950pro). This will deliver the same very high quality settings as above but you will be able to push it all the way up the extreme resolutions. Cons are the extra price and extra drain on your PSU.

3) A single 8800GTX. Will perform better than a top of the line SLI setup in many benchmarks. Will have native support for DX10 under vista (i.e. performance advantage once dx10 features start appearing in games). In future as prices come down you consider upgrading with another. Cons, very expensive for a single card.

4) dual 8800GTX. Too expensive to be considered. Extreme drain on PSU aswell.

or alternatively eskew the top end and save yourself some money in the process. Go with a 7900GTO, 7950GT or a X1950pro and overclock it a little and still get really good graphics performance. If you have an old pc currently you will still be blown away by just how good these cards are. Could also be used as an intermediate step while you wait for the new ati dx10 cards, or for the 8800 to drop in price.

There are lots of choices if you have some $$ All the options are good just different degrees of good..

 

[Cromcruaich]

You shouldnt be shopping at a store that is trying to rip you off Any store that trys to sell a CPU for 25% more than its retail value is trying to rip you off.

Small specialist shops cant sell cpus or other components at the same price as the big wholesalers who shift thousands of units. When buying from a small retailier you are buying into their support and expertise, and being able to go down and knock on their door when things go wrong. They have nowhere near the same economies of scale, and if they prepurchase any kind of stock, with the way the market moves, within weeks they can find themselves having to sell stock at a loss.

I'd say support local IT shops, and do what you suggested - see if they will price match. If they cant, simply tell them if you buy the components will they assemble them?

 

[Titan Moist]

sorry i took so long getting back to you on this subject

The ram is rather expensive for DDR2-666. What are the timings on it?
I don't know but ive ditched it in favour of this..

KINGSTON DDR2-800 (pc2 6400) CL5 240 PIN DIMM

Clock Cycle Time (tCK) CL=5 2.5ns(min)/8ns(max)

Row Cycle Time (tRC) 60ns(min)

Refresh to Active/Refresh Command Time(tRFC) 105ns

Row Active Time (tRAS) 38ns(min)/70,000ns(max)

Single power supply of +1.8V(+/-.1V)

power 1.872W(operating per mdule)

UL Ratng 94V-0

any good? and a similar price to the ones above

 

[Ballard]

Since you dont want to overclock, any half decent ram is okay. Tight timings on the RAM actually make very little difference in performance but what they do add is a buffer and allow you to push the timings out when you want to raise the FSB (one of the ways of overclocking a CPU) above the rated speed of the RAM.

In other words that RAM is more than good enough However if you can find cheaper branded ram use that and save yourself some green (dont go no name generic tho!!).

 

[Mauness]

what gfx card have you chosen in the end? although the 8800 is by far the fastest card around, from reading reviews you do already need to have a full on water kit or buy one etc, which may put the price upto what his original price was for his SLI.

Just something i noticed thats all.

 

[Ballard]

what gfx card have you chosen in the end? although the 8800 is by far the fastest card around, from reading reviews you do already need to have a full on water kit or buy one etc, which may put the price upto what his original price was for his SLI.

Just something i noticed thats all.

One of my friends is running one in combination with a Aegia physx card as a Demo PC in his store (about 8 hrs a day running 3d demo apps) and that doesnt need any cooling above the stock coolers for the GPU.CPU and PPU. Its the XFX manufactured version of the 8800GTX.

Running at standard factory speeds in a decent case there should be no need for any special cooling on a 8800.