Relic Raid / ML3 Raid

Amadon

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
280
1) Those of you who hate me, your opinions are irrelevant to me, but no doubt you're welcome to them. The people who's opinions matter to me (and they are very few) don't judge me on one action regardless of circumstances and other actions. If you choose to have no respect for me because I disagree with your perspective and expressed myself inelegantly, that's fine by me, I'll treat you the same.

2) Adari was the leader of the raid. As a leader, you lead, people follow, that's what a leader does. If the leader of the raid had committed to defending the relics instead of continuing a PvE exercise which could have been completed after defending the relics, I seriously doubt the majority of people would not have followed his lead. If you can convince me that the majority of people on the raid would've stayed and completed ML3 if Adari had committed to defending, then I'll apologise to him. His actions DO influence those who are following him on a raid, to think otherwise is naive.

3) I was the first person to suicide from the ML3 raid, I spent 30 minutes summoning wood to repair the doors. I tried a number of times to organise a retake of scath last night when it was feasible (and there were many opportunities where we could have retaken it), but there was little to no interest, that's fine, I can't force people to help, nor can I force them to defend.

4) Yes I think defending our realm is paramount in the game, since the game is nothing without the community.

5) I had to go out, which is why I only spent 30 minutes summoning wood at Dagda (for those of you who think I "need a life", and just by the by, I highly suspect I've experienced more of life than most of my detractors who make unsubstantiated assumptions based on my passion towards whatever I commit myself to at the time, if you don't understand that, then you haven't experienced much of life at all, sadly.)

6) My comments in Saadyst's bg were inappropriate, they should have been expressed to everyone not in his bg, so I apologise to him and the other hibs who did come to defend and really shouldn't have been the recipients of my negative attitude to the 160 other level 50 hibs who cba to defend.
 

Adari

Part of the furniture
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Dec 23, 2003
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1,649
Amadon said:
2) Adari was the leader of the raid. As a leader, you lead, people follow, that's what a leader does.

raidppl.JPG


Did they follow?

No.

Amadon said:
3) I was the first person to suicide from the ML3 raid

Does the above screenshot and the fact you and other left the raid for realm defending not prove that I do not control everyone, and that the majority wanted to to finish the ML?
 

Vodkafairy

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 23, 2003
Messages
7,805
Stop feeling so goddamn superiour and give the guy a break. Not everyone is 100% prepared for anything that can happen at any given time, Adari was surprised and didn't know what to do - would you if you had never been confronted with the same thing before?

Adari did a good job leading his raid, he gets nothing but respect from me for that, maybe he didn't act like he "should" when the RR was confirmed, but it doesn't matter shit. Next time adari will know what to do if something like this will ever happen again, if he even wants to keep raiding in the first place.

Stop the hatred, losing the relic won't hurt you or anyone else, it's just things that happen. Don't scare a good person off just because he wasn't 100% prepared.

Personally I think it's a good thing the relic has been taken, it forces (;)) Saadyst to pick up raiding again and it shows relics can be taken at primetime as long as the plan and coordination are good.

<3 adari, use your brain before you bitch at him next time, because its a fact that the majority of people who whined are way, WAY less competent leaders than he is.

vf

ps, amadon grab a medal and stroke your e peen, and while you're at it stroke mine because the group i was in ported out as soon as we could, am i not of the r0x now?!?111 :puke:
 

Exiled-Mighty

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Apr 20, 2004
Messages
266
people pay to do what they like in the game. You cant force someone to do what you want, as it says in the s/s adari posted, he did say that they should leave to defend relics. Im guessing he felt obliged with it being his raid to stay.

imo instead of whining between yourselfs go whine at mids for giving albs an easy relic ( we all know albs cant take them other wise ;) )

The relics are a realms responsibilty, not a single person. If amadon whines at adari he should be whining at everyone who stayed in the ML3 raid...

on a side note (not aimed at amadon in anyway), i find it funny that so many people complain when we lose relics but only a handfull of people are willing to arrange defences/keep takes. Unless you have done one of these, successful or not, you have no leg to stand on (yes i know amadon has been involved in them before)
 

Amadon

Fledgling Freddie
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Feb 17, 2004
Messages
280
Adari said:
raidppl.JPG


Did they follow?

No.
ask xfear what he does when there's a threat to relics, ask him what happens when the raid leader leaves instead of just saying he's leaving.
Does the above screenshot and the fact you and other left the raid for realm defending not prove that I do not control everyone, and that the majority wanted to to finish the ML?
I never said you control anyone, I feel that of the 60 hibs that didn't come defend, you could have influenced maybe 40 to come defend, that would've been 50% more than we had. Whether that would've made a difference is debateable and on that score I'd probably agree that the plan was executed too well for Hibs to have defended regardless of 50% more. So if it makes you feel better, I apologise for my comment, I still have no respect for you for not standing by your principles, but I'm sure you can live with that since doubtlessly my opinion is irrelevant to you.
 

Exiled-Mighty

Fledgling Freddie
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Messages
266
Adari was the leader of the raid. As a leader, you lead, people follow, that's what a leader does

you kinda did say he had control over people :) not gonna pick sides cause i class both of you as friends, even though adari's many perverted PM's during last nights ml8 raid were odd :p
 

Amadon

Fledgling Freddie
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Feb 17, 2004
Messages
280
Vodkafairy said:
Stop feeling so goddamn superiour and give the guy a break.
www.rent-a-clue.com
Not everyone is 100% prepared for anything that can happen at any given time, Adari was surprised and didn't know what to do - would you if you had never been confronted with the same thing before?
I would suicide, you know it. All other raids I've been on have suicided the moment there's a confirmed report of enemies on Dagda. XFear has lead raids deep into Galla which are just as painful as ML3 and suicided once the threat to Dagda has been confirmed.
Adari did a good job leading his raid, he gets nothing but respect from me for that,
I've been on better ML3 raids, that's irrelevant tho, I never doubted his leading ability, in fact the whole premise of my opinion is based on him having leadership ability. Try the above url.
maybe he didn't act like he "should" when the RR was confirmed, but it doesn't matter shit. Next time adari will know what to do if something like this will ever happen again, if he even wants to keep raiding in the first place.
next time I'll know not to bother in a realm where 80 people of 240 level 50's online at the time bother to respond to 100 enemies attacking Dagda
losing the relic won't hurt you or anyone else, it's just things that happen.
As always with me, it's the principle not the result. I'm glad the Albs decided to keep it so I wouldn't have to try defend something I feel we shouldn't have in the first place. I don't need the relic bonus, it's the principle of a leader giving sanction to the concept of letting other people do the dirty work from which they benefit.
Don't scare a good person off just because he wasn't 100% prepared.
if he's scared off because 1 person who he's never liked and who's opinion he's never given a damn about, then he really should consider why.
Personally I think it's a good thing the relic has been taken
gee I agree with u
<3 adari, use your brain before you bitch at him next time, because its a fact that the majority of people who whined are way, WAY less competent leaders than he is.
I never questioned his competence as a leader, see above.
ps, amadon grab a medal and stroke your e peen
the points I posted which may be seen as e-peen enlargement were in direct response to comments other people made so that I wouldn't have to repeat myself indefinitely. If you think it's because I need to increase my standing on an online community which is irrelevant in my life in the larger scale of things, then maybe you should stop projecting your own motivations on others.
 

Adari

Part of the furniture
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You make it look like I control people.

Also, there were people there from LA & other guilds that were capable of leading ML3 and _desperately_ needed the encounter because they got tired of not finishing ML3. One of them would of taken over had I left, no doubt.

Apologies are not what I am looking for, basically I lost the respect and better rep I got from leading a few ML's I didn't even need, partly due to myself, but mostly due to people stirring up shit with idiotic comments.

That I can never regain.
 

Amadon

Fledgling Freddie
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Exiled-Mighty said:
you kinda did say he had control over people :) not gonna pick sides cause i class both of you as friends, even though adari's many perverted PM's during last nights ml8 raid were odd :p
there's a difference between controlling and influencing people's decisions
 

Tallen

Fledgling Freddie
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Mar 2, 2004
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3,358
Ok, enough of this.

Those doing ml3 were well on their way to the FE mob, a few did leave the raid to defend daggda (or at least try and defend), myself included...but i bear those who remained to complete the ML no malice at all...in fact i applaud them for completing what is a horrible ML, prolly the worst of them all.

I left the raid when called upon and didnt make it to Dagda in time, none of those on the raid would have made it to dagda either in time...so the fact they stayed is beside the point.

The blame cant be laid at the feet of one person, one guild, one raid or one alliance...the fact is that we as a realm should have retaken Scath long before this could happen, it is the fault of the realm as a whole for our complacency and general apathy.

Dagda doors were lvl 8 for a start, not lvl 10 like they should have been (the door the mids didnt knock down was lvl 8 still anyway, which lead us to assume that the rest were all lvl 8). Again, apathy on the part of the realm as a whole!

If this defeat serves as a wake-up call for Hibernia, then losing a relic is worth the cost.

Oh, and some people who are whining did nothing to repair Dagda after the event, while others spent 5+ hours repairing and upgrading....so put-up or shut-up.
 

Amadon

Fledgling Freddie
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280
Adari said:
You make it look like I control people.
I repeat, a leader influences the people following him, that's not control in the sense that you imply by your statement. It's a question of degree, everything everyone does influences everything else, to one degree or other. That doesn't mean that everything controls everyone else (taken to the absurd to indicate the pont). A leader's influence over others is greater than a follower's influence.
Also, there were people there from LA & other guilds that were capable of leading ML3 and _desperately_ needed the encounter because they got tired of not finishing ML3. One of them would of taken over had I left, no doubt.
Experience has shown otherwise (ie. XFear's raids)
basically I lost the respect and better rep I got from leading a few ML's I didn't even need, partly due to myself, but mostly due to people stirring up shit with idiotic comments.
As far as I know I was the only one who commented. Thus you've only potentially lost my respect, and as I've said before, my opinion of you should be pretty irrelevant since you don't even know me, and nor do I know you, so my opinion isn't relevant and obviously highly biased towards the minimal experience I've had of being on your raid.
 

Coim

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Amadon said:
everything everyone does influences everything else, to one degree or other.
Amadon said:
As far as I know I was the only one who commented. Thus you've only potentially lost my respect
I'm finding it hard to believe anyone could contradict themselves so badly in just one post.
 

Adari

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Stop bringing up Xfear and his raids, what he does on his raids and who joins his raids is beside the point. The people I had in my group leaders cg alone were able to take over and finish the ML, and would have done so. Killing Medusa is the easiest part and considering TOA has been out quite a while, this will not have been the first time of doing ML for lots of people on that raid.

Also, I find it funny how you say that everything everyone does influences everyone else, seeing as you, with no doubt, have ranted to not only me in pm, but in Saadyst's bg, guild chat and god knows where else also, without me having the opportunity to defend myself, means that I've lost respect from more people than you alone.
 

censi

Can't get enough of FH
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quite simply you acted like an asshole, you owe an apolagy but you wont give it, even if it means generating so much random waffle you might even confuse yourself into thinking you are actually in the right.

the real fact of the matter is you take the game far to seriously to the point where you made the game unjoyable for a lot of people that day (especially adari who is a pretty quite and nice guy).

At a time when hib needs to be positive and make plans on counter attacking, your primary concern was to lay blaim and point the finger. These are bad bad traits in a person.

hope one day you sit back take a chill pill, apolagise and remeber its just a game peeps play for some fun.
 

Exiled-Mighty

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the problem is, from what i can see (not a great deal tbh) but mids/albs finished ML's quite quickly after getting ToA, and us hibs seemed to have lagged behind a bit ? correct me if im wrong btw,
 

Amadon

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Coim said:
I'm finding it hard to believe anyone could contradict themselves so badly in just one post.
Context is your friend. Try read beyond one sentence.
 

Amadon

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censi said:
quite simply you acted like an asshole, you owe an apolagy but you wont give it,
scroll up
even if it means generating so much random waffle you might even confuse yourself into thinking you are actually in the right.
If I didn't think I was in the right, then I would apologise.
the real fact of the matter is you take the game far to seriously
I am passionate about whatever I commit myself to at the time. I find life is dull if you're not passionate about whatever you're doing. It's pointless to do something if you don't care about it.
to the point where you made the game unjoyable for a lot of people that day (especially adari who is a pretty quite and nice guy).
please explain why.. and therein you'll see my point.
At a time when hib needs to be positive and make plans on counter attacking, your primary concern was to lay blaim and point the finger.
actually my primary concern at the time was to try defend what we had left
and now my primary concern is to keep my fingers warm by typing
you know very little of me, what most people see in game is the shallowest of reflections of one facade I choose to use, you see nothing more.
These are bad bad traits in a person.
Your assumptions about my motivations were incorrect, your judgement is flawed. Please try again.
hope one day you sit back take a chill pill, apolagise and remeber its just a game peeps play for some fun.
I hope one day you realise that there's no point in doing something you care nothing about.
 

Fianno

Fledgling Freddie
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148
stop the hate pleaaase, im fed up of hearing adari cry over TS :wub:

No seriously its over and done with lets just get on with things, personally I am glad that we lost the relics, its a wake up call for everyone, and I am anxiously looking forward to the retake,as it is always a time when everyone in the realm, puts aside their differences and fights together :)
 

nol

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 30, 2003
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734
I think this relic raid can be pretty much summed up in 2 words "role players".

I think the role players owned Hib today and the writing has been on the wall for quite some time. From the moment we stopped trying to take back our keeps because we didn't want to be farmed.

I think if you look deeply enough, you will also see the harsh truths of Amadon's posts, you can see how it applies to you. Yes they may be harsh, but sometimes you don't see things until they really hurt.

Maybe Adari didn't deserve the abuse, but the rest of you 80 did.
 

Coim

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 22, 2003
Messages
597
In context then. It doesn't even make a difference, you're still saying the same thing, and you're still contradicting yourself.

Amadon said:
I repeat, a leader influences the people following him, that's not control in the sense that you imply by your statement. It's a question of degree, everything everyone does influences everything else, to one degree or other. That doesn't mean that everything controls everyone else (taken to the absurd to indicate the pont). A leader's influence over others is greater than a follower's influence.

Amadon said:
As far as I know I was the only one who commented. Thus you've only potentially lost my respect, and as I've said before, my opinion of you should be pretty irrelevant since you don't even know me, and nor do I know you, so my opinion isn't relevant and obviously highly biased towards the minimal experience I've had of being on your raid.

It's exactly the same out of context as it is in.

No change in meaning, so why you mention context baffles me. If you're trying to be smart, stop, because it's embarrassing. :(
 

Vodkafairy

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Amadon said:

i don't know the exact story because i left the bg almost instantly after we ported out of ToT, but i think you missed my point

don't act like a complete asshole towards someone that organises events for the realm, they do not deserve it.. adari made mistakes, like everyone does, i think we can all agree losing a raid leader is worse for hibernia than losing a relic though.

you mentioned that you had no problems with adari leading, and you repay his effort with a hateful comment like you pm'd to him? that is the thing that is really wrong in my eyes, and all the whining later in bg (apparantly).. bah :(

give him the apology he deserves and admit show him some credit, instead of a big bitchfight this post could have been something constructive like - how to act when raids are interrupted by a RR? what should you do? that way people will learn instead of grow hate over a computer game

anyways, don't break up my post in little pieces next time and pull them out of context, you get my point and let everyone be nice again ;)
 

Elcain

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 22, 2003
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192
we lost relic
we will get it back
end of... no one's fault.
 

censi

Can't get enough of FH
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you know very little of me, what most people see in game is the shallowest of reflections of one facade I choose to use, you see nothing more.

ifinkzther4zIiz. Please get a grip, mr international man of mystery
 

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