Reavers - Time to tell Mythic what you want!

[acei]

http://vnboards.ign.com/Reaver_Forum/b22325/69441453/?24

Topic: Clarifacation on WP/DT and Leviathan's Proc

Official word: At the moment, those aren't working correctly and it's bugged.

Basically, the proc is NOT supposed to crit. Sorry guys, but I think a few of us saw it coming.

That was a post made by the reaver TL leader...

In New Frontiers reavers receive Wild Power and Duel threat, both of these RA's are designed to increase spell crit's (duel threat also increases melee crit's), the recent changes on new frontiers means the only spells that are crit'able are the instant-lifetap, instant-DoT, wrack and our weapon proc's. Dragonpup (the reaver TL leader) has basically told Mythic that weapon proc's crit'ing is a mistake and should be fixed. This is a serious mistake.

In New Frontiers Avoidance of Magic will be one of the most used passive RA abilities because the cost is the same as determination and they both have almost the same effect on crowd control (they both lower crowd control duration) but on top of lowering the effect of crowd control it also lowers spell/proc damage. If reavers damage is not boosted by counter RA's (such as wild power/duel threat) effecting leviathan proc's then we will soon be seeing leviathan do 50-70damage... this is wrong and if these changes are put into effect and our counter-RA's that allow us to critical on proc's (which are in essence counted as spells) are removed then Leviathan/Cobra/Indigio Snake will become the worst styles ingame and the reaver class will be useless.

If you agree on the points i have made i urge you to backup my opinions on VNBoards and make it clear to the reaver TL and to Mythic that we want all of our proc's to crit with duel threat and wild power.

Edit: This is also a problem for Valewalkers i hope to see their support on VNBoards as well please.

 

[Draylor]

Obviously it was a bug that these procs were allowed to crit. Even the most optimistic of reavers should've realised that.

10/10 for exaggerating - fixing this bug will not make Leviathan the worst style in the game. Itll still be among the very best.

 

[Leleith]

Edit: This is also a problem for Valewalkers i hope to see their support on VNBoards as well please.

Glad you added that, or you would have had me flaming your ass off

 

[acei]

Obviously it was a bug that these procs were allowed to crit. Even the most optimistic of reavers should've realised that.

10/10 for exaggerating - fixing this bug will not make Leviathan the worst style in the game. Itll still be among the very best.

Doing 50-70 damage on a rear positional that is meant to do 300-400 is a huge nerf. That is what NF will bring when people start reliasing AoM is one of the best RA's to possess in NF.

 

[Vindicator]

this is wrong and if these changes are put into effect and our counter-RA's that allow us to critical on proc's (which are in essence counted as spells) are removed then Leviathan/Cobra/Indigio Snake will become the worst styles ingame and the reaver class will be useless.

hahahhahahah

Sorry Acei but wtf ?

No they will still be excellent Moves, probably will still be some of the best styles in the game and perhaps this is a way of bringing Reavers a little more into line because if Reavers had Det they would be overpowered and in NF they will have it .

lol a style that is supposed to do 300-400 damage ? Im quite happy to hit 400 damage with my Rear move with my Polearm which is a 2h weapon with a big slow ass delay and you want to do your 300-400 damage every 1.5-3secs no doubt ^^ ?

Sorry but no. I think a Reaver that doesnt want there Class nerfed in a few weeks / months after NF offical release will be happy with this, your class will still be very viable and perhaps your damage wont be so insane now while still leaving your class unique and special etc.

 

[Draylor]

You give levi damage as being "300-400". Capped resists + capped resist buffs give a total of 50% resists: reducing this to 150-200.

AoM5 in NF (28%) would reduce this to 108-144 as a worst case. AoM5 will cost 34 RA points: not something many people will be able to afford to spend on 1 ability.

Like I said: your figures of 50-70 damage from Levi are just over exaggreated crap. Even adding the effect of Empty Mind 3 (a further 30 points) onto the numbers above wouldnt get the damage that low.

 

[Kreig]

lol a style that is supposed to do 300-400 damage ? Im quite happy to hit 400 damage with my Rear move with my Polearm which is a 2h weapon with a big slow ass delay and you want to do your 300-400 damage every 1.5-3secs no doubt ^^ ?

Have had 800 hits regularly on my Reaver when i played him (this was post SC also), whois in hybination atm. Only problem when det became a requirement for grps kinda killed off friars/reavers/champs/valewalkers/Thanes?.

So NF will be very refreshing for RvR imo as it will bring a lot of classes and many many more viable grp set-ups back into the active RvR system, instead of the stale situation atm.

 

[Kalid]

So in 1 swing you want to be able to both crit on procc and weapon dmg?
Sounds fair? Not in my eyes LOL!

 

[PJS]

then Leviathan/Cobra/Indigio Snake will become the worst styles ingame and the reaver class will be useless.

yeah right ........................ NOT!

 

[Skilgannon]

hahahhahahah


lol a style that is supposed to do 300-400 damage ? Im quite happy to hit 400 damage with my Rear move with my Polearm which is a 2h weapon with a big slow ass delay and you want to do your 300-400 damage every 1.5-3secs no doubt ^^ ?

Well, a point here is that Reavers get several decent styles, all of which are positional/reactionary and of which the best rely on a magic componant to do damage.

Flex Reavers do not have an Amethyst Slash or a positional stun, and neither do VW. If the decent styles go then I would expect a revamp of the anytime and the addition of a positional stun. Having said that, I don't think Reavers have too many problems and just need to rethink playstyle.

I saw this coming and respecced 50SR several weeks ago. It doesn't really bother me when solo (90% of my RvR atm) as I was finding slam was being purged alot. Basically stealthers wouldn't go near unless purge was up.

Since respeccing out of slam most of my solo fights have been face to face slugfests and I generally hit unstyled whilst twisting auras. Not lost a 1 vs 1 melee fight yet. My only problem comes when I get kited, but I am working on that Crits on debuffs with WA rock and I feel Reavers damage in NF is going to come from the SR line. All Magic damage is gonna take a hit so Reavers aren't alone. Reavers forte I believe will come in debuffing for the train whilst using the nerfed positionals.

Solo then Reavers will be stronger than ever.

 

[Tuppe]

zerks behind 3chains last style has proc, and dont critting.
zerk is allso positional fighter? atleast so mythic tell us.

if mythic allow reavers levi crit? why not let zerks aurora borealis proc allso crit and allways critting when vendo mode?

levi is huge and nice style what hybrid have, whit changes what inc in frontiers? its obvious reaver is near or allready? overpowered.

this "whine" allso include vw if valewalkers styles really crit?.

 

[Vindicator]

Flex Reavers do not have an Amethyst Slash or a positional stun, and neither do VW. If the decent styles go then I would expect a revamp of the anytime and the addition of a positional stun. Having said that, I don't think Reavers have too many problems and just need to rethink playstyle.

VW's have a Side 5s stun which is an anytime to a decent Tank.

They also have a Rear 8s stun <omg that is soooo sweet>

They also have an insta snare to stop supp running so they can catch to do there side / rear stun ^^

Reavers have a Ranged Move from how far ? 300-500 range ? They is like a form of PF < Although No where neaaaaaaaar as good ofc but its free >

The most damaging proc a reaver has is in his 3rd move parry chain right ?

2h Flail Reavers with 50 parry would be fun .

I really dont think This will effect decent Reavers at all tbh and asking for anything more isnt fair to the rest of albions tanks as it would leave them being unferior to the reaver in everyway.

Blocking Reaver > pally
Damage Reaver > arms or Merc
Interupts Reaver > all xD

 

[Kreig]

I saw this coming and respecced 50SR several weeks ago. It doesn't really bother me when solo (90% of my RvR atm) as I was finding slam was being purged alot. Basically stealthers wouldn't go near unless purge was up.

Since respeccing out of slam most of my solo fights have been face to face slugfests and I generally hit unstyled whilst twisting auras. Not lost a 1 vs 1 melee fight yet. My only problem comes when I get kited, but I am working on that Crits on debuffs with WA rock and I feel Reavers damage in NF is going to come from the SR line. All Magic damage is gonna take a hit so Reavers aren't alone. Reavers forte I believe will come in debuffing for the train whilst using the nerfed positionals.

They will need to reduce the power cost firstly as atm 50SR eats alot of power, ive always had 50 flex/50 SR spec never have any problems 1 on 1 really, but power is always an issue. Also as most of the styles are positional or reactionary it leaves very little choice other than to swing unstyled or just end up Spaming python which as u will know kains end and makes u ooe very quickly.

 

[yaruar]

My thane cries for you.......
Really...
Althoough as a fellow hybrid I know what it feels like to be left out of strong groups, but at least you have a style which can do decent damage. I'm lucky if I hit for 100 maximum one handed these days. That's when i hit anyway.

 

[Kreig]

My thane cries for you.......
Really...
Althoough as a fellow hybrid I know what it feels like to be left out of strong groups, but at least you have a style which can do decent damage. I'm lucky if I hit for 100 maximum one handed these days. That's when i hit anyway.

Hopefully we will see the return of thanes to RvR with the addition of Det to them, not sure what kind of role or spec they would take/need. Perhaps in the assist train speced 48 SC 50 Sword (530 left) or mayb replace the warrior block bot speced somit like 50 sheild 34 Sword 46 SC 7 Parry.

Dunno the viabilty of any of those specs but at least with Det in on hybrids we can move away from the cookie cutter grps a bit more.

 

[acei]

Crits on debuffs with WA rock and I feel Reavers damage in NF is going to come from the SR line

Sorry to disappoint you but NF removes crit'ing debuffs.

if mythic allow reavers levi crit? why not let zerks aurora borealis proc allso crit and allways critting when vendo mode?

Zerks are light tanks with stocism and all the other light tank abilities. The reaver has multiple positional proc styles and 1 reactionary i consider our proc's more of a spell (as does the game at the moment it seems ) than a proc.

The most damaging proc a reaver has is in his 3rd move parry chain right ?

No, that's a 9sec stun, our most damaging move is 4th part block which is a 110% lifetap

I really dont think This will effect decent Reavers at all tbh and asking for anything more isnt fair to the rest of albions tanks as it would leave them being unferior to the reaver in everyway.

Unlikely, a merc does relatively the same damage as us in a front positional but they won't be damaged by AoM as their damage is melee based...

Reavers have a Ranged Move from how far ? 300-500 range ?

350 rear positional no proc just normal melee.

Spaming python which as u will know kains end and makes u ooe very quickly.

And would get you booted out of a group instantly for breaking all crowd control in the area...



People seem to be missing the point that spells for casters have a chance to crit and melee for tanks have a chance to crit. Why don't a reavers main source of damage have "any" chance to crit? It's not like we're asking for a 100% crit chance just the normal crit chance that casters get.

 

[Azathrim]

Why don't a reavers main source of damage have "any" chance to crit? It's not like we're asking for a 100% crit chance just the normal crit chance that casters get.

For the same reason no Hybrid's spells crits.

Go buy Wild Power like any other Hybrid in this game.

 

[acei]

For the same reason no Hybrid's spells crits.

Go buy Wild Power like any other Hybrid in this game.

I would if it effected our proc's (that's all of which the thread is about lol)

 

[Pin]

If reavers damage is not boosted by counter RA's (such as wild power/duel threat) effecting leviathan proc's then we will soon be seeing leviathan do 50-70damage...

My proc hits ~400 damage against level 50s with 0 resists. 80%+ resist - yes you'll frequently see this against high RRs, but you do already... And it's not like a crit for 20dmg is going to make much diff there anyway - adding another 100-150 on a soloer might make a difference (wouldn't really, as he was going down anyway).

this is wrong and if these changes are put into effect and our counter-RA's that allow us to critical on proc's (which are in essence counted as spells) are removed then Leviathan/Cobra/Indigio Snake will become the worst styles ingame and the reaver class will be useless.

k
In a group, Levi is not the most valuable tool a Reaver hsa by a long shot. And solo we didn't really need the boost.

If you agree on the points i have made i urge you to backup my opinions on VNBoards and make it clear to the reaver TL and to Mythic that we want all of our proc's to crit with duel threat and wild power.

Edit: This is also a problem for Valewalkers i hope to see their support on VNBoards as well please.

VWs have always had the chance to crit on their DD procs, btw.

No they will still be excellent Moves, probably will still be some of the best styles in the game

They are only 'some of the best styles in the game' against solo/stealth/low-rr gimp groups. In group RvR Cobra and Indigo are basically useless and Levi is merely above average.

and perhaps this is a way of bringing Reavers a little more into line because if Reavers had Det they would be overpowered and in NF they will have it .

Nope. In NF Reavers will get the nerfed form of Det. Det5 being less than half as effective as now and costing almost twice as much.
If you want Det5 on a Reaver (34 points), you won't be getting Dual Threat3 (30 points) and Wild Power5 (34 points) anyway, so that's a moot point.

lol a style that is supposed to do 300-400 damage ? Im quite happy to hit 400 damage with my Rear move with my Polearm which is a 2h weapon with a big slow ass delay and you want to do your 300-400 damage every 1.5-3secs no doubt ^^ ?

But you've always been a gimp
Even Justin hits over 300 with his pally

Sorry but no. I think a Reaver that doesnt want there Class nerfed in a few weeks / months after NF offical release will be happy with this, your class will still be very viable and perhaps your damage wont be so insane now while still leaving your class unique and special etc.

A class won't be nerfed because, for example, I can top 1k damage on stealthers when lucky.

So in 1 swing you want to be able to both crit on procc and weapon dmg?
Sounds fair? Not in my eyes LOL!

As above, VWs have had this for 15 months...

Flex Reavers do not have an Amethyst Slash or a positional stun, and neither do VW.

VWs have side and rear stuns. Even 50SR Reavers (should) have 23shield.

If the decent styles go then I would expect a revamp of the anytime and the addition of a positional stun.

The styles are not going anywhere - merely the 'removal' of chance to crit on 3 styles (only 1 of which is ever really used in lvl 50 rvr).

Having said that, I don't think Reavers have too many problems and just need to rethink playstyle.

My playstyle has been that of a cross-guarding duo for a long time because 2-3 shades with purge up can be a problem for a soloer reliant on slam-levi.

I saw this coming and respecced 50SR several weeks ago. It doesn't really bother me when solo (90% of my RvR atm) as I was finding slam was being purged alot. Basically stealthers wouldn't go near unless purge was up.

I wouldn't choose 50SR mainly due to power constraints (not an issue for 1v1, but anything bigger it is) nd squeezing Pie into ToA templates is tough.

Crits on debuffs with WA rock and I feel Reavers damage in NF is going to come from the SR line.

WA doesn't exist in NF, but it's been nice to have for the last months I'll certainly miss the 120/tick armour and weapon dot procs

Reavers forte I believe will come in debuffing for the train whilst using the nerfed positionals.

And the difference in debuff amount going from 36 - 50 SR is negligible (15% vs 13% abs, for example).

Reavers have a Ranged Move from how far ? 300-500 range ? They is like a form of PF < Although No where neaaaaaaaar as good ofc but its free >

350 range, only does melee damage (good damage, mind you), uses end, doesn't snare (how is this like PF?)

The most damaging proc a reaver has is in his 3rd move parry chain right ?

4th in block - only ever see it in duels vs non-defensive classes (well, landed it on Novamir in a 1v1, but he's gimp too).

I really dont think This will effect decent Reavers at all tbh and asking for anything more isnt fair to the rest of albions tanks as it would leave them being unferior to the reaver in everyway.

Blocking Reaver > pally
Damage Reaver > arms or Merc
Interupts Reaver > all xD

It's not a major change (or non-change, however you look at it), but it would have been a nice little boost for those who wanted to max their damage (I would have probably specced for improved defense anyway, as I feel my offense is fine without it).
Blocking Reaver > pally? You won't find many 50shield, MoBlock4 Reavers - though I will probably have high Aug Dex.
Damage Reaver > arms or Merc? Depends greatly on the situation - if they are in the same train, the arms/merc will outdamage the reaver due to assisting on the debuffed target.
Interupts Reaver > all xD ? Yup

People seem to be missing the point that spells for casters have a chance to crit and melee for tanks have a chance to crit. Why don't a reavers main source of damage have "any" chance to crit? It's not like we're asking for a 100% crit chance just the normal crit chance that casters get.

Style proc damage probably only makes up 30-50% of damage from my reaver in general, but yes, it's not really fair.

For the same reason no Hybrid's spells crits.

Go buy Wild Power like any other Hybrid in this game.

??
Errrr... that's the whole point of the thread?

 

[yaruar]

Hopefully we will see the return of thanes to RvR with the addition of Det to them, not sure what kind of role or spec they would take/need. Perhaps in the assist train speced 48 SC 50 Sword (530 left) or mayb replace the warrior block bot speced somit like 50 sheild 34 Sword 46 SC 7 Parry.

Dunno the viabilty of any of those specs but at least with Det in on hybrids we can move away from the cookie cutter grps a bit more.

Det is worthless in NF. That's the biggest advantage, almost no one is going to get det unless they really want to waste points.

What will be good though is things like static tempest. Gank groups now have ways to be countered. If I can afford ST 2 or even 3 and the purge i can drop it on an asisst train and leave then useless for 20 or 30 seconds whilst my group mops them up. Or i charge into a stunned pbaoe box and drop st and laugh at the casters sitting there like lame ducks whilst I 3 shot them...

Yeah it's not always up, but it's a pretty useful RA to have, much better than the new lesser determination.

42 shield 48 sc 39 hammer is plenty for me. Just need to get to rr4+ for the decent ra's.

 

[Vindicator]

They are only 'some of the best styles in the game' against solo/stealth/low-rr gimp groups. In group RvR Cobra and Indigo are basically useless and Levi is merely above average.

Hi Der Welcome to hot having Above Average Styles.

You will have Better styles that most tanks, above average implies that end of story.

Nope. In NF Reavers will get the nerfed form of Det. Det5 being less than half as effective as now and costing almost twice as much.
If you want Det5 on a Reaver (34 points), you won't be getting Dual Threat3 (30 points) and Wild Power5 (34 points) anyway, so that's a moot point.

Who gives a fuck about Det ? .......... no Tank in ther Right mind will get it when they can just get aom5. Same as Reavers. Meaning They are on a level playing field, which is exactly what was needed to make Reavers > all. You can try Diffuse that all you like but your bs in the end anyway.

As above, VWs have had this for 15 months...

VWs have side and rear stuns. Even 50SR Reavers (should) have 23shield.

I already Stated this.

My playstyle has been that of a cross-guarding duo for a long time because 2-3 shades with purge up can be a problem for a soloer reliant on slam-levi.

Thankfully Reavers Styles / skills / RA's / anything , isnt based on your playstyle as you seem to 99% solo/ duo with your Reaver anyway. At High RR it isnt really an accuratte opinion of the Class either so the 'Majourity' Of Reavers can get a evaluation of ther Class as opposed to RR8+ Reavers 'Deciding' how they class should go ^^.

350 range, only does melee damage (good damage, mind you), uses end, doesn't snare (how is this like PF?)

Stops the Target getting Speed and Breaks End Chant < Bard>. Sure it doesnt snare but if you have ever played a tank in rvr you wouldnt be even asking me this. The amount of times you are quite close to support but cant hit them, with this style you can and then as soon as your in range levi,levi,levi etc etc.......

4th in block - only ever see it in duels vs non-defensive classes (well, landed it on Novamir in a 1v1, but he's gimp too).

With Bodyguard it is. Again if you even thought about it you would concide. Great Style, 'Think' Dude.

It's not a major change (or non-change, however you look at it), but it would have been a nice little boost for those who wanted to max their damage (I would have probably specced for improved defense anyway, as I feel my offense is fine without it).
Blocking Reaver > pally? You won't find many 50shield, MoBlock4 Reavers - though I will probably have high Aug Dex.
Damage Reaver > arms or Merc? Depends greatly on the situation - if they are in the same train, the arms/merc will outdamage the reaver due to assisting on the debuffed target.
Interupts Reaver > all xD ? Yup

oh not a major change ? Doubling your Possible damage increase as opposed to just by increasing for the rest of tanks ?

So Then you concide that if a Reaver had 50 Shield moblock4 they would be >pally which does ? ........ ok kthx thats all that matters.

so Reaver then, depending on another Class to debuff damage for them haha ok then. Fact is the Reaver can do Crush and Slash damage whenever they want yet another free bonus ^^.