Realms versus Realm

[Turamber]

What do you think of RvR in DAOC?

Not particularly referring to the state of Prydwen RvR, but rather the quality of the end game and it's long term appeal.

Discuss, flame, but be *interesting*!

 

[leviathane]

nufin special, especially when your a lowbie realm rank trying to attack a high rr person, stand no chance

 

[mirieth]

When I am grouped with Guildies in Emain running with 1 full group, or sometimes 2, it's always very fun - until we get zerged. Other than that, it's not too great. Zerging is annoying, but it happens. Solo'ing is not an option for non-stealthers.

All in all, it's okay... just not great.

 

[Ardrias_Mid]

Trying as a solo runie to get past say... a camped milegate can be boring... *pokes Turamber*

 

[Jonaldo]

Can be fun once or twice a week for maybe a few hours, then you realise you're doing the same thing over and over again and it becomes exactly the same as xp'ing.

It was ok for a while but as an end game it's ultimately a disappointment.

 

[pudzy]

Well, they spent so long planning every part of the game.. to be thrown into a playing field, which is imo quite boring, their should be some games .

 

[SilverHood]

yeah, RvR aint that great as an end game. More fun is had by doing hunts, or small scale fights in secluded areas.
Getting steamrolled is no fun either. Some parts of mass scale RvR is great fun.... I remember being in a fight with 8 fg middies, vs about 6 fg albs and 5 fg hibbies. Since middies was in the middle, we lost, but it was fun

Imho, the 1-2 fg balanced group shit in order to even have a chance at RvR is what makes this game tedious, repetitive and is the reason why it will, eventually, fail.

 

[Derric]

Different RvR areas would be cool,like cities and stuff.

 

[SilverHood]

yeah... like that mansion just outside beno.... a whole city like that, with no aggro of course....

 

[Myddrin]

A 100ft dragon you can fly with air to ground fire nukes would be pretty cool, always thought Emain would be quite cool scenery for a flight Sim

Seriously though, a nice post Turamber I think a lot of people get a little lost once they hit 50 and come to the conclusion 'hrmm what now then?'. Personally Im stumped for any useful ideas but then again I'm not a games developer so.....I better get my coat.

 

[Jonaldo]

Originally posted by Derric
Different RvR areas would be cool,like cities and stuff.

I think this will be why many might want to play Planetside if they put in different and varied combat zones which it sounds like there may be, of course there won't be any kind of melee which will also put a lot of others off.

 

[granny]

What I think RvR needs is structure. The random zerging gets old fast. Gifv arenas. Events. Refereed 2fgs vs 2fgs. Pitched battles with set objectives and limited numbers.

Everyone seems to think Thidranki is the most fun RvR these days - which speaks volumes about the quality of the endgame imo.

 

[Brunore]

You all talking about zerging, that all you do?

Go take a keep, upgrade it to L10 and wait for a cs.

Nemesis do this quite often and its great fun, usually 3 or 4 fg of albs come to try and take the keep back.

Much more fun taking defended keeps and defending keeps than running around in emain all day long.

 

[old.Tyraette]

<hopes noone notices the title of the thread...realms vs realm>

shush turamber...the cunning plan must not be revealed!

 

[Jonaldo]

We'll be on page 2 soon.

Can I turn it into a flamefest or whine thread please?

 

[Meatballs]

Originally posted by Brunore
You all talking about zerging, that all you do?

Go take a keep, upgrade it to L10 and wait for a cs.

Nemesis do this quite often and its great fun, usually 3 or 4 fg of albs come to try and take the keep back.

Much more fun taking defended keeps and defending keeps than running around in emain all day long.

Alot of classes dont have ways contribute actively in a keep defence, and keep takes with tanks is like hitting a door for 30 mins before it opens :d

 

[Turamber]

Originally posted by old.Tyraette
<hopes noone notices the title of the thread...realms vs realm>

shush turamber...the cunning plan must not be revealed!

Yes, I noticed that I had misspelled ... however I don't see a way to edit the thread title. So maybe I should pretend that I did it on purpose for some obscure reason. Some suckers should fall for that ... oh, wait...

 

[zapzap]

My spirit hitting doors is boring, waiting till albs find a map of the way to the keep can take so long.
Make small rvr zones where max 16 people can port in from each realm.
But remove milegates or make 4 of them in each realm would really help.

Careless-Zapsi

 

[Derric]

Originally posted by Omniscieous
We'll be on page 2 soon.

Can I turn it into a flamefest or whine thread please?

Shut up and stop using radar!

 

[sieben_dapoet]

a complete variety of BG's for lvl 45+ would be good,

say 5-10 different looking, small maps with a single keep, or town or some such feature that high levels can access. Having a max. limit on each BG, or having ALOT of them should keep numbers down...

i think this would be more fun, would allow you to enter RvR at high level and fight alot quicker, but would definitely kill off main RvR areas.

I guess Mythic are working on ways to improve RvR, without doing the above and killing off the main zones.

 

[AzuratMinimus]

Originally posted by granny
Everyone seems to think Thidranki is the most fun RvR these days - which speaks volumes about the quality of the endgame imo.

I have never been more bored then in thidranki. Yey a bunch of mids runing back and forth between CK and PK. If you get left behind, your bound to get 3-4 stealthers on you.

In my opionen the end game could have been a lot better if mythic had learned to balance things right and added some more terrain to fight in.

If they had really used the brain and thought about the RA system it could have been a lot better to. Specially thinking about some of the ridicoulus active RA´s.

 

[The Real Redi]

See, i'm new to this game, hence why Redi isnt 50th yet, i've only been on here an ickle while...

OK, i admit it, you got me, im just lazy, but RvR has changed so much since i started, i feel i have the right to draw some comparisons. I remember times when to take a keep was to muster virtually every able body in the realm - to be 40+ was as akin to being 50 now. Times when it was possible for a well timed mezz to give your hugely outnumbered group the chance to leg it. Now the mezz is a method to hold everyone still whilst the assassin accomplace kills all, including the tank (who by common sense should take two three hits and have assasin goo all over his arms)

Tanks have had a lot of love, but since the buffbot craze took off, it seems EVERYONE not in a robe is now a tank anyways.

We have the BGs, out of which only Thid gets used and the other two remain as empty as my piggy bank. If there was perhaps more bonuses offered to those who hold the keeps; Maybe a +5% to resists in that particular BG to benefit both the casters and the tanks, the bonus going up with the BGs level?

What about a Caster BG? Three suspeneded platforms in the air, or perhaps three pillars rising out of lava or something - which sway/float freely in and out of range of the other two? Dunno, im just specualting, but it may work.. <shrugs>

Basically, i get the impression that Mythic are going to have to do a hell of a lot of work to justify the raises in subs, and the growing apathy towards the game in general...

 

[darzil]

If you find you don't have anything to do in keep takes or defences, consider siege weaponry !

They aren't really that expensive, and if you keep one or two in your vault, you can easily have 2-3 per group. They'll really make life more interesting !

Darzil Siegecrafter (after business - nah, not me )

 

[Jaem]

I prefer pve latey, hunts with SoR rock, might not work out right, but damn good laugh.

BG1 is fun too, just wish BG2 and BG3 were active
I've had great fun with my zerker, capped in less then a day, until albs zerged me all the time huntress I was so Zzzz, my thane is my next one in there, don't want to play much until bolt is off timer
Want to get a RC runie in there soon, 1-2 hit casters

As for Emain, I dislike it, run out pwn or be pwned, repeat until next rr. Just got IP on my zerker for pve hunts mainly.

 

[Wile_E_Coyote]

RvR is fun! Although I was a bit disappointed you couldn't actually invade the other realms. Would be fun if it was possible to fight your way through the fronteir-keeps. Although it would have to be very very difficult and the guards should just keep respawning (maybe faster and faster) so eventually even the weakest realm could push the invaders out. Imagine fighting the invading hordes throughout your realm. Would give realm defence a new purpose.

 

[The Real Redi]

Its been suggested before, but logistically, and in the name of fairness, it would be impossible. You see the amount of whine sloshing aruond on these boards, imagine what happens when a 6th season firby gets beheaded whilst he XPs in Mularn?

Other problems involve finding a nice comfy spot nowhere near any realm guards (Dartmoor, Myrkwood etc), setting up camp and then relogging waay after the bulk of invaders have been repelled and starting a rampage not unlike that of certain realmbug abusers in the past...

can't happen... yet...

 

[case-rigantis]

IMO the problems with RvR in this game are all to do with balance which makes the end game very disapointing

perhaps after the next patch we`ll see some improvement but ATM MEZ owns all 2 realms have it 1 realm doesn`t

this causes a general decrease in single groups of albs running about due to the fact 90% of the time you`ll meet hibs..insta mezzed PBAOE dead... so zergs are formed to combat this..

i`ve seen troll zerkers 1 hit kill 4 or 5 casters in a row after a group being insta mezzed show me a merc who could hope to do that

hibs get PBAOE on a 2 second cast that has at times done 900+ damage to my infiltrator with no chance to interupt due to the cast time being so fast also look at a 10 second cast stun thats on the same class as the above PBAOE

minstrels...5 second cast AE mez..don`t even go there..why not 3 second like everyone else?

paladins even i`ll admit they`re overpowered opposed to their equivelents in hib and mid

Nightshades you gotto feel sorry for them

Earth spec theurg`s or lack of means 99% of albs do not have 6 second PBT as opposed to hibs where 99% of them seem to have 6 second pbt teh reason being earth spec theurg is just not a viable spec line

anyway could go on don`t bother flaming this is just my opinion of the problems in this game

 

[old.Tyraette]

slightly off topic i know, but the only way i can see a home invasion server working is if youre permanently diseased. no health regen at all. purge doesnt effect it etc.


that would make it fairer. with stealthers, perhaps make it so that everyone has true sight in the home realms regardless of level. would make it more interesting i think.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

With a couple of exceptions, I haven't RvR'd for some time now until tonight. When I do get online I've mainly been levelling my bonedancer.

RvR is extremely affected by the rollercoaster of class balancing that goes on and you are never quite sure if the character you create will work like that by the time you head out to the frontier, or will remain working like that in the future. Certainly, SMs have been affected by this. The balance of the end game can sometimes vary wildly after a patch day.

Regarding realm balancing, I think people underestimate how hard it is to get something this complex properly balanced and also I firmly believe that most people think balanced equals them being able to kill everything they meet, rather than being truly balanced. You can see that most people gravitate to the supposedly overpowered character classes and its obvious why: they want ownage rather than a playstyle they genuinely like or are even good at in a lot of cases. Buffbots are an extension of this thinking and proof of it. (Not talking PvE remember).

I don't think adding a whole load of new RvR areas to the game would massively improve it, it would spread things out very very thin indeed, with it becoming harder to find enemies to the point of spending most of your time doing nothing but running around. Possibly some arenas with limits on numbers that can enter, but even there I can see people ending up queing to get in to popular ones and a Malmo-style list system forming except on a larger scale. I think refining the detail of the existing areas would be better. Drop in some abandoned towns and villages on the frontiers. Make the MileGate bottlenecks a valley wide, rather than a doorway or have several MGs so you never know which route will be used.

I think Dodens Gruva was a mistake - it should have been created as a large scale underground pure RvR area with no mobs but something worth capturing and holding in the centre. When I first saw it I thought it had a lot of potential as a Quake/UT type map but I think its basically a missed opportunity.

I don't understand the thinking that says if you have a new area, it has to be populated with inconsequential mobs when the aim is to skirmish and battle with realm enemies. Take the mobs in doduns and stick them in a new in-realm dungeon. Thanks, much appreciated.

Imagine an underground fortress in the centre of an area like Doduns with lots of tunnels and access ways and bridges. Gates on timers that will automatically spring open if not reset every so often. Traps that can be set by activating switches at key locations if you have the people in. A master switch in the centre of the keep which will open or close every door so giving stealthers a target to let their armies in (on a timer of course, say 1 min so that once the doors are opened or closed you can't change the state of them during that time).

Imagine an area in the Hibernian frontier, an abandoned tree village with lots of walkways between huge trees lots of ways to set up ambushes and traps and generally skirmish. No need for new RvR area, just adding detail to existing area.

And thats just off the top of my head. With some serious thought a lot could be done. So easy to do things like this in terms of coding, it just takes a little imagination.


Took bonedancer (44) briefly out for a trial run and it was quite good fun with a hint at the potential to come. Huge amount of effort to get something alternative to play in the end game though, and I think this is what makes Thid attractive: you can go there with a lot less effort. Its not that its much better, its just easier and more accessible. If you've duffed a spec for a char you made for Thid it isn't the blow getting it wrong with a level 50 char is.

Behaviour in RvR, just like PvE, can be as much of a problem as the actual game mechanics themselves. It tends to affect casual players, rather than pre-planned guild sorties but this is a large part of the player base and it all came home to me again when I saw the low level of common courtesy some people show each other. You can't rule this out when talking about the end-game as it is a social game.

There you go, another wordcount munching post

 

[Glyph_mid]

Re: Re: Realms versus Realm

Originally posted by leviathane
nufin special, especially when your a lowbie realm rank trying to attack a high rr person, stand no chance

Thats not true
Ive often beaten Rambo with low realmrank SB.
Might be the lack of "skill" in rambos case ofc, but beaten is beaten.