Raid Leaders Discussion

Bluesky

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
2,932
Raid Leaders Discussion


I have noticed a lot of people on raids (raid leaders and raid attendees) getting bitter and abusive in raid threads. This helps nobody and only serves to piss people off whether its a raid leader spouting off in a heavily dictatorial manner, a raid attendee whining or being a total sycophant to the leader. None of it is pleasant to read tbh.

Leading a raid can be a simple job of saying "meet at a certain place at a certain time and lets zerg it" or it could be as complicated as making fully opted groups to complete the raid. Most good raid leaders spend time researching the raid, how to do encounters, how a mob behaves in certain situations eg. when I run Dragon Raids I spend approx 1.5 hours (for every raid) making the groups working out who is best suited, who has not been on one before (or recently), and who i can trust as group leaders. Also raid leaders that run a mod system also spend their time compiling the mod lists - this also takes time to do. Other raids can take time like this too and the vast majority of raid attendees fail to see this and take raids for granted.

For me the word respect comes to mind and anyone who says "respect should be earned" think about this: Respect others until they give you a reason not to. If raid leaders or attendees give you reason not to respect them then dont. Its that simple but being polite and courteous costs nothing even if you disagree with the raid leaders rules. While I may not agree with them I acknowledge that they have put aside time to organise and run the raid and if I want to go on their raid I must follow their rules and instructions. If rules change or mistakes are made (destroying a drop for example) then you can do several things: make a comment politely in the bg or in a pm and if the raid leader confirms there was a mistake made then remember they are (usually) having a quite stressful time and they are human like the rest of us and are prone to mistakes. If you dont believe the raid leader then you simply do not go on their raids again (maybe making a complaint to a guild leader if its a severe case) and if enough people feel the same then that raid leader wont have many people to run a raid for.

On a personal note about respect - I have run close to 200 public raids now ranging from the long standing Dragon Raids, Jacinas Sash, ml steps and many farming and arti raids and I dont think i automatically deserve respect from the people that come on my raids. If people choose to respect me thats really nice but I haven't run that many raids to get respect. The vast majority of the raids i have run I do simply because i like doing it. Some ofc are to get myself an artifact and if I can help others aswell by running modded raids then thats good for everyone who wants the artifact.

Some people talk about "personalities" and yes there are some more public figures than others in Midgard (be it in RvR or PvE) and as much as some leaders may see themselves on a pedestal "above" the rest they are nothing without those people to come on their raids. I dont like big ego's and bad attitudes personally so try to not let people think that of me and think it can only be good if other raid leaders could adopt that attitude too.

So after my ramblings I would like to address the following points:

To our raid leaders: Be patient, careful and dont be aggressive or too dictatorial with people and you will keep the respect from your attendees rather than lose it through mistakes or your handling of those mistakes. Yes, being respected is a nice thing but can be lost everso quickly tho. If you get a pm or a suggestion to do something different then consider that others may have done certain steps or raids themselves and may have valid points. Dont automatically dismiss them.

To the raid attendees: Be polite and above all be patient as your raid leader is no doubt in the middle of several pm's, planning the next step of a raid or doing a load of other things. If you have an idea or if something is being done wrong then make a comment or pm politely not "wtf dumbass do it liek this" etc.

ok thats it... discuss... :)
 

charmangle

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
May 27, 2004
Messages
1,376
Can only agree there bluie except for 1 point!:)

Can only agree there Bluie except for one point!:)

In my opinion I do think you deserve recognition for the work you have put in. :) Midgard wouldnt be the same without you and all the other raidleaders!:)

/Charmangle
 

Brite

Banned
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
67
Wheres this kraken raid bluesky? you told me monday, i wait on monday, alone, in a cold dark place, waiting.... still waiting, maybe it would come.

But it didnt bluesky! It didnt come! i hate you bluesky, and i am coming to get you!

I see many lies in this post, bluesky himself has like the bigest ego ever, its like unbelivable, its like... a big blimp... no not bluesky himself, the ego!

and again another lie, i am better than everyone, everybody knows this, there is just a certain silence in the air around midgard that says, brite is better than you, try and let it not affect you, you cannot resist it.... because it is true.... try and deny it and it will destory you from within

- Brite the stealsor of teh artifacts and teh destoryer of all mls raids



but anyway, yeh i agree, but i dont care, i just want my kraken raid :'( boo hoo

awwwww go on you know im too lazy to organise it :< and id be like, well corrupt
 

Ixoth

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
1,952
Brite said:
Wheres this kraken raid bluesky? you told me monday, i wait on monday, alone, in a cold dark place, waiting.... still waiting, maybe it would come.

But it didnt bluesky! It didnt come! i hate you bluesky, and i am coming to get you!

I see many lies in this post, bluesky himself has like the bigest ego ever, its like unbelivable, its like... a big blimp... no not bluesky himself, the ego!

and again another lie, i am better than everyone, everybody knows this, there is just a certain silence in the air around midgard that says, brite is better than you, try and let it not affect you, you cannot resist it.... because it is true.... try and deny it and it will destory you from within

- Brite the stealsor of teh artifacts and teh destoryer of all mls raids



but anyway, yeh i agree, but i dont care, i just want my kraken raid :'( boo hoo

awwwww go on you know im too lazy to organise it :< and id be like, well corrupt


roflmao
 

poisono

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
May 10, 2004
Messages
271
I dont even know who Brite is..... Anyone like to fill me in? ;)

Ive ran a ML1 raid before and not much else... Ive thought about fully going PvE on my Healer and Skald, as I fancy becoming a Raid leader as I can see the benefits, and where some of the fun has gone that ive lost by constantly RvRing...
 

Haroat

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
413
im only posting here cos my farm partner is being an ass, so ill make it breif... i personally havent run many raids on mid, but i agree wholeheartedly with everything a bove apart from a couple of things;

1. blueskys ego and size are on a par... both bloody huge :eek2:

2. brite smells, thats the only way he is better than us.. he has a better bad smell.
3. aeris radars ;)

4. GOD DAMNIT WHERE ARE MY ITEMS U ICKLE DORF **** (bluesky)

grrrr

:p
 

Brite

Banned
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
67
Haroat said:
im only posting here cos my farm partner is being an ass, so ill make it breif... i personally havent run many raids on mid, but i agree wholeheartedly with everything a bove apart from a couple of things;

1. blueskys ego and size are on a par... both bloody huge :eek2:

2. brite smells, thats the only way he is better than us.. he has a better bad smell.
3. aeris radars ;)

4. GOD DAMNIT WHERE ARE MY ITEMS U ICKLE DORF **** (bluesky)

grrrr

:p

lesson of the day: never listen to haro, thank you class that will be all
 

Zedenz

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Messages
1,134
I think this discussion really boils down to what people expect of their raid leaders.

The majority of the current active raid leaders are relly nice people, who run their raids not for personal gain, but for the good of the realm (people like Bluesky etc). Obviously it would be naive to think that people like (sorry to use Blue as an example again) Blue wouldn't pick up his fair share of trinkets along the way considering just how many raids he runs, so clearly he does well for himself through hard work and all legitimatly, for example he clearly states on his dragon raids that the additional set of stones will go to him and people respect the reasons why and everybodies happy...

Which leads me to my next point, Vavires...People may think myself and Belo in the other thread were fairly harsh on him, but lets face it rare loots getting "accidently" destroyed in consecutive raids, give me a break. One time I can believe, two..sure..but THREE times! People have every right to be suspicious.

If he wanted to claim some loot for running the raids then fair enough, do like Blue does, do like Durgi does and clearly state that you will be before the raid commences instead of pocketing random items under a black cloud mid raid. Nobody would think any less of him then, if people had a problem with loot claiming they could simply decide not to attend before hand then.

Now this isn't the only problem people have with the guy, unlike your other raid leaders who don't do their raids for recognition or the limited fame and praise that comes with the territoy, Vav does..He's an egomaniac, one example being an ML2 raid he organised not too long ago, he couldn't attend due to PC problems so he called it off, somebody offered to take over and Vav flew off the handle saying things like "If you have any respect for me at all you won't do the raid", because naturally it would inconvenience him. Where as other raid leaders would have had no problem with someone else taking the reigns so to speak. Again with Blue, he had PC problems for a few weeks and happily let others run his sash raids for him, myself, I was recently asked by someone if they could use my Zo mods and extend the raid to twice a week and I said you most certainly can, as it benefits a large numebr of realm mates.

Other classic Vavires, ML9 this evening, for one organised with no consideration for the sash/charm marathon that has been a regular fixture of Tuesday evenings for months. The turn out is obviously low due to people putting the regular raid first, Vav again goes nuts "The Sash raid is every week why aren't people coming to my ML9 raid!!!!!11111111111111111".

Simple fact is, look at how often people moan about Vavires compared to other active raid leaders. The evidence is all over the forum for you to read, now I'm not saying he's a bad guy. Respect where respect is due, he has been ruling the roost when it comes to ML raids recently, but his attitude for the most part stinks and people recognise this more than anything.

If he wants to remain a succesful raid leader though he has to stop with the, dictatorship of ML raids (discouraging others from leading them), the attempted control of other peoples raids (tried to fumble around on one of Gustavs ML8 runs once) and general whiny attitude he displays in his battlegroups.

Now doubt he'll play the token "I'm quitting from leading raids now because people just moan" sympathy card after this, and the usual fan boys will jump to defend him.

To conclude though, everyone else is doing a grand job and shouldn't be disheartened by the odd bit of critisism, as people have said also in this thread Bluesky is an asset to Midgard and I for one hope we won't be losing him anytime soon!

Zed
 

Ingafgrinn Macabre

Can't get enough of FH
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Jan 4, 2004
Messages
3,155
I wanted to post a long long long long story here about what you just said there zedel, but to be frank... you ain't worth my time
 

Yma

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Nov 5, 2004
Messages
352
I don't know about items deleted or whatnot. I really hate when people organize raid overlapping weekly traditions like jacina/erineys or the dragon: I don't even organize anything in my guild during those days, if not with people that I know they wont partecipate, I remember ML10 farming raids failing because of it and the general comment in those bgs aren't positive at all. Weekly farming raids are now a sort of habit, a community meeting that many partecipate because they're used to, seeing the same names, having a good time while hoping for that #1 roll: I already won one Eriney, I have the top mod on Jacina while waiting for RoH, I'm still going to both every time I can because of the mad midgard raiding tribe and will continue to do so :cheers:

Even considering all this ... sorry, I can't justify any attack to Vavires. Tens of mids got one or more MLs thanks to him, because he took the hassle and the time to put order in an anarchic bg of drunk dwarves and scantly clad frostelves chicks for 3-4 hours, from bg formation to the last MP lotto'd, and he did it more than once. Even if he really nicked those items instead of destroying them (and it should still be proved before accusing, imho) that would be not enough a payback for all the abuse a raid leader goes thru in his/her career. We want him to be a mirror of total honesty and purity, but how many of us pay more attention to the lotto than to the raid itself, how many will try to do the minimum necessary to get all credits without losing /stick ?
 

mercury

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
1,044
Brite

poisono said:
I dont even know who Brite is..... Anyone like to fill me in? ;)

No, but I know alot of people would like to fill Brite in....:puke:
 

Legaen

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
812
Raid leaders only get abusive in raids because people don't listen. If you can't follow their rules and do what they say then what do people expect? I respect all people who lead raids, whatever they may be because I know how hard and stressful it is. You will not find many raid leaders that enjoy running raids. Why? Because like I said, it's stressful and you play a game to have fun and get away from all the stress.

Keep up the good work u raid leaders! :)

P.S People who moan about raid leaders or how raids are run etc, they are not worth time talking about and need to take a long hard think about what they would do if there wasn't people who actually could be arsed running a raid for them.
 

Nausilus^^

Can't get enough of FH
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Dec 25, 2003
Messages
1,745
Zedenz grow up and stop this witchhunt for Vavires.. it's getting really tiresome.
 

charmangle

Fledgling Freddie
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May 27, 2004
Messages
1,376
Hmm...Zedenz...using the wisdom of Moses...

Well Zedenz there really should have been an easy way for you to avoid these problems since you apparenly held this opinion from early on ?

Dont keep comming back to his raids. Just organize your own and run them and you will probably be more happy with the raidleader. (Didnt take the wisdom of moses to solve that one did it ?:)

About claiming an item per raid. Well Vavi tried to do that earlier but got threats, flames and general abuse for it. (But he still kept going doing raids no sane person would even consider (mlmarathon for example).

Regarding destroyed items. Dont you think its just a little (in my opinion ALOT) dumb to accuse someone with any kind of evidence ? If you dont believe him, put in the time launch a formal complaint to goa and theyll probably be able to see it in their logs. But dont give us that crap about suspisions. Prove it or dont bring it up.

Vavi might get abit rushed/stressed sometimes, he might get more angry than I would prefere at some situations and he might wait longer than others might have prefered during his raids. But he is dedicated that is what counts. He gives a whole lot more to the realm than you do. Meaning he doesnt deserve your insinuations and we dont want them since it will affect our means to getting new mls...

So in the words of former speaker...grow up and just dont join his raids instead of complaining about them.

/Charmangle
 

Asmiran

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
May 4, 2004
Messages
41
Just have to say great job to all our raid leaders and to the"whiners" i just have to say if you dont like the raidleaders rules dont come to the raid and so on... or run your own raid Great job all of you now GIVF ml8 raid
 

feril

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Apr 20, 2004
Messages
261
Agree with Asmiran and i give all the Raid leaders i BIG HUG for all the raids.. we on midgard need all the raids that are arrenged tho all the limits we have in PvE..

(ps givf spot in DR Blue =) )
 

Durgi

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 18, 2004
Messages
211
Well said Blue. I try to remain calm and unflustered during raids, but I've hurled more than one expitive in general directions over the yeas. At time it get to you and controlling a couple hundred people can be a nightmare. The comments as too 'Your raid your rules' are pretty much spot on... whoever is leading a raid I attend I abide by there rules weather i agree wiht them or not. It's only curteous after all to do so, as I would expect them to abide by mine on my raids. I may natter aimlessly in the bg's cause I'm not under the pressure of running the raid which can be distracting but i always apologise for my good humor privately to the raid leader.

And Blue is spot on I spend most of my time on raid days running round making sure i have all the necessary bits and bobs, group formations whatever is needed to make my raids successful for those who attend. Organising a Relic Rad takes said skills to an entirely new level, logistically its a nightmare ensuring various guilds/alliance are co-ordinated, you have enough rams/trebs in place.. poeple know whose building what where and when.. that sb's know where the climb points are and what needs to be killed and so on.. I think on average I'd spend 5 hours before any relic raid running over the route we'd take to ensure it was clear, camping the keep for crafters, pm'ing guilds to ensure all logistical matter were in place.. and thats before the headache of people actually showing up.
 

Durgi

Fledgling Freddie
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Jan 18, 2004
Messages
211
I've not totally agreed with everything I've seen in Midgard call me old fashioned but hey, since my return. I've even had one raid leader ( i don't name names) tell people not to attend one of my raids but attend one of his at a later date pure cause i don't post raids here. Now even though my raid was successful I had the decorum to inform my bg to support his raid, they would after all get mlxp for doing so. And many from raid took said advice and helped make the other gentlemans raid successful. I've delayed raids so current running low ml raids acn join in, I try to accomodate as much as possible not just to make the raid but so every can join in. In return I expect my rules and ethos for my raids adhered to by those attending. I'm sure people may think me off for banning someone from my raids but in all the raids I've led, which are far beyond countable its the first time I've fealt the need to do so.

Raids are there for all of us to enjoy and I to be honest i enjoy running them at times, I don't post cause my personal life dictates i can't assign any fixed time for raids so i just gather whose around at the time and go off and do it. You don't need 200 people to complete a misison, same with artifacts i do few to none ffa artifacts raids i do however many encounters to help friend get things, or just for the hell of it. And in return my friends help me when its need, late the other evening be an example I needed the battler artifact asked a few friends if they'd help, found mega battler 1 hour later we won. I'll go back to any encounter for any of them. It's how the games ment to work, you build friendships, and work together. I see to much self important in Midgard since i returned, the old idea's grouping, adventuring, and getting to know people are lost. The accumilation of RP, or levels in moderna are more important. Some people may hate ToA, i like it it makes us work together. Heck malmo turned people in arseholes whilst they were there but least we all grouped, we interacted and we learn to fight together. That carried over in rvr and for a while Midgard dominated our server. We took relics at will, keep and open rvr were dominated by us. Can that be said of today?? I doubt it.

My 2 copper worth.

D.
 

Zedenz

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Messages
1,134
Durgi said:
I've not totally agreed with everything I've seen in Midgard call me old fashioned but hey, since my return. I've even had one raid leader ( i don't name names) tell people not to attend one of my raids but attend one of his at a later date pure cause i don't post raids here. Now even though my raid was successful I had the decorum to inform my bg to support his raid, they would after all get mlxp for doing so. And many from raid took said advice and helped make the other gentlemans raid successful. I've delayed raids so current running low ml raids acn join in, I try to accomodate as much as possible not just to make the raid but so every can join in. In return I expect my rules and ethos for my raids adhered to by those attending. I'm sure people may think me off for banning someone from my raids but in all the raids I've led, which are far beyond countable its the first time I've fealt the need to do so.

Raids are there for all of us to enjoy and I to be honest i enjoy running them at times, I don't post cause my personal life dictates i can't assign any fixed time for raids so i just gather whose around at the time and go off and do it. You don't need 200 people to complete a misison, same with artifacts i do few to none ffa artifacts raids i do however many encounters to help friend get things, or just for the hell of it. And in return my friends help me when its need, late the other evening be an example I needed the battler artifact asked a few friends if they'd help, found mega battler 1 hour later we won. I'll go back to any encounter for any of them. It's how the games ment to work, you build friendships, and work together. I see to much self important in Midgard since i returned, the old idea's grouping, adventuring, and getting to know people are lost. The accumilation of RP, or levels in moderna are more important. Some people may hate ToA, i like it it makes us work together. Heck malmo turned people in arseholes whilst they were there but least we all grouped, we interacted and we learn to fight together. That carried over in rvr and for a while Midgard dominated our server. We took relics at will, keep and open rvr were dominated by us. Can that be said of today?? I doubt it.

My 2 copper worth.

D.

Very true.

As for my post, it was a little out of frustration, so I do offer my apologies for the harsh tone it was written in..however some of the points are still valid.

I don't want Vavires to stop running raids, deep down he's a nice guy and he really takes his ML raids seriously and a strong leader is what the community needs, he just has a few niggling problems that annoy people that were brought to my attention recently.

I don't attend many Vavires raids myself, I like Durgi, prefer the smaller affairs and do as much as possible with my guild mates and close friends.

Anyway, I hope Vavires will continue to run his raids as they do benefit a large number of people.
 

Henx

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Nov 3, 2004
Messages
130
Personally I really do appreciate any folks that are trying to make things happen in our great realm of Midgard. Thank you Blue, Vavires or who ever are making raids, hunts and ML marathons…..

It is true that some raid leaders demand more respect and appreciation than others for doing raids. I’d say shower them with hugs, if that makes them continue doing the demanding jobs that being a raid leader is. If peps like Blue does the raid because he likes it, and rather want to silently be appreciated, help him when he needs it and show the appreciation that way.

But mainly try to appreciate the peps that make an effort in the realm – big raids as small artefact/scroll farms. I’m sure that most do that already, but that is at least what they deserve.

The source of most bitching can be related to three things – AFK and LOOT.

Raid attendees - AFK – As many probably have stated before, that is the one thing that annoys the hell out of raid leaders, but truly enough it saves strength and concentration for the lotto part, that in often is regarded the most important thing about raids. Stay alert and stick around – that helps the raid, yourself and shortens the raids considerably. Then no one can ask anything else of ya.

Raid leaders - I’ve made my share of raids around the realms of DAOC (mainly US), but there are a few things that I’d like to comment. I know there are plenty of things to do as a raid leader. What makes me wonder is that the leaders around our realm do not delegate the raid responsibility. I use to have 4 things I made sure when I prepared raids:
• 1) Have 1 opted raid leader group to keep leader safe and creates time initiate the next step on the raid. Example ML 2.10. Make that group needed when you set out – do not waste time during the raid to reconfig groups.
• 2) Set looters in every group, so no loot is left behind and set loot level.
• 3) Set looter 1 and 2 (Never raid leader) – Make looter 1 pick what goes on lotto and what is rog and give rog to looter 2 – he can then divide/salvage (safety check on items) the rest for the scavengers that have new toons on the rising and just need stuff of any qual.
• 4) Make a chat for a Group Leader that makes it easier that communicate LD’s and raid opting info.

No good leader does try to do everything alone. That is why there are captains, lieutenants and sergeants in the army and business have CEO’s, CFO’s, COO’s and so forth. Delegate responsibility to the raid attendees and that frees your hands for a smile once in a while.

Sorry for the long post….. And keep up the good work guys, but remember to learn as you go along. Even and experienced general can learn from a grunt.
 

Bergast

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
78
I realy shouldn't bother posting this cause most/if not all have already been said, but wth.

I agree with Blue. Actually it's not hard to make it work. Just treat people like U wannt them to treat U. How hard can it be? Do U wannt anybody else to treat U like an A-hole? Well do U? If not then don't treat them like one. There is no magic here just the simple truth. People will be nice to U if U are nice to them. Well sure there are a few exceptions to this, there always are, but they can be put on ignore.

And now some quotes from Zedenz...

Which leads me to my next point, Vavires...People may think myself and Belo in the other thread were fairly harsh on him, but lets face it rare loots getting "accidently" destroyed in consecutive raids, give me a break. One time I can believe, two..sure..but THREE times! People have every right to be suspicious.

If he wanted to claim some loot for running the raids then fair enough, do like Blue does, do like Durgi does and clearly state that you will be before the raid commences instead of pocketing random items under a black cloud mid raid. Nobody would think any less of him then, if people had a problem with loot claiming they could simply decide not to attend before hand then.
I hope U can prove that if not U should'nt post things like that

Now doubt he'll play the token "I'm quitting from leading raids now because people just moan" sympathy card after this, and the usual fan boys will jump to defend him.
This is soo sad, am I now one of what U call the "usual fan boys" since I make posts like this? Is anybody who wanna defend someone with another opinion then U a "usual fan boy"? Ofc U are allowed to your opinion, but soo am I or anybody else and we have not done anything to deserve being judged by U.

Well enough said.

Loads of respect and thanx too all who arranges hunts and raids for the rest of us.
 

Gustav

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
678
Personally I don't believe ML raids should be a platform to make money or get choice items. At ml6+ they aren't like normal raids where they can be run every week and most people don't want to wait another 4 weeks for the next one. All drops should be the property of Teh Zerg and lottoed accordingly. If people don't like the rules of a particular ML raid then they are held to ramsome. They can't say well I'll just go tomorrow or next week, because you won't get the numbers to complete the high level ones for a long time. The rules on these things should be simple. Stay at your keyboard at all times and follow the raid leaders instructions before and during the raid. Lotto at end.

But, its shameful that Vavires is still looking for items for his templates. Everyone of us who has gone on his raids should be falling over to find out what he needs and drop everything to come help him farm for them.

So why not find out what he needs and show your thanks for his raids by PM'ing him ingame and see if u can help out. Maybe that particular item has gone unsold on your cm or is rotting in your vault, and don't go trying to make money off him by selling/trading at a 'discount'. Give it to him and say thanks. Or give him 1 hour of your time to help him farm for it. Then say thanks. He may not be everyones cup of tea and he and I don't see eye to eye but he has lead a shitload of raids. Try to repay his time spent herding you newbs through a dungeon by giving a little of yours back to him.
 

vavires

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
2,384
Gustav said:
Personally I don't believe ML raids should be a platform to make money or get choice items. At ml6+ they aren't like normal raids where they can be run every week and most people don't want to wait another 4 weeks for the next one. All drops should be the property of Teh Zerg and lottoed accordingly. If people don't like the rules of a particular ML raid then they are held to ramsome. They can't say well I'll just go tomorrow or next week, because you won't get the numbers to complete the high level ones for a long time. The rules on these things should be simple. Stay at your keyboard at all times and follow the raid leaders instructions before and during the raid. Lotto at end.

But, its shameful that Vavires is still looking for items for his templates. Everyone of us who has gone on his raids should be falling over to find out what he needs and drop everything to come help him farm for them.

So why not find out what he needs and show your thanks for his raids by PM'ing him ingame and see if u can help out. Maybe that particular item has gone unsold on your cm or is rotting in your vault, and don't go trying to make money off him by selling/trading at a 'discount'. Give it to him and say thanks. Or give him 1 hour of your time to help him farm for it. Then say thanks. He may not be everyones cup of tea and he and I don't see eye to eye but he has lead a shitload of raids. Try to repay his time spent herding you newbs through a dungeon by giving a little of yours back to him.

Only 1 thing i wanne say on ure post.
I never needed a single item for a template on my ml raids, and th eonly character i could bother to get templated fully is my valk, and she is templated

Vavi.
 

Coolan

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
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vav put it this way 35ppl turn up for ur raid u cancel on them, maybe just maybe it was the only time they could make it, so ur saying its disrespectfull cause they didnt want to wait another 3months for another raid on the only day they could make it, imo thats not disrespectful, they turned up for ur raid u cancelled thus its no longer your raid.
 

Nausilus^^

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 25, 2003
Messages
1,745
Coolan said:
vav put it this way 35ppl turn up for ur raid u cancel on them, maybe just maybe it was the only time they could make it, so ur saying its disrespectfull cause they didnt want to wait another 3months for another raid on the only day they could make it, imo thats not disrespectful, they turned up for ur raid u cancelled thus its no longer your raid.

Have to agree with that.. My savage has been ml8 for a very long time now, and even though there may have been a few ml9 raids since I turned ml8 and last night, I wasn't able to attend any. Last night was the first ml9 raid I was able to attend, and I had actually put aside a few RL things just to attend that raid. It was a delight to see that Gustav and Tes didn't hesitate to take up the task of leading the raid, and I only have respect for that gesture.
 

Starwind

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Messages
271
1 thing that people dont like, is when someone uses a lot of people to get what they want.

Some of the Items that drop can only be obtained by a Zerg of some kind, so why do some raid leaders say " i want that for running the raid "?

Not really fair when all the Zerg helped destroy it, so they should have a chance to roll for the glittering prize.

People running raids that clash with weekly events, is not very constructive at all, as poeple may want to go on the weekly raid aswell as the ML raid, and to be honest the weekly raids does not take that long.

I dont think we should start a Witch Hunt on certain people for there discrepancies, but all we ask as a realm, is to think about other people before yourself, if you dont , its just a matter of time before the shit hits the fan.
 

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