Quickness, should i bother?

[mid_Efour]

Am i right thinking this? .......


Quickness = attack speed of weapon/sheild/stick/baseball bat
Modified by factor X of the weapon speed

Dexterity = Chances to block/parry/evade/crit/cast speed
Modified by a troll/norse/kobald lucky gimp factor

Therefore in my eyes, i have always capped my dex, and tried to cap my quickness as well. BUT is it really worth capping Quick? From my experiance of it i cant really notice a damn thing, i swing painfully slow no matter what sword i use. In real game term am i going to notice or benefit massively from extra quickness, remmbering im a fat troll warrior gimp.. im talking 78 quick (dont laugh Stealthers, its not funny) or i can get it to about 110ish with a few items..... Does it effect my chances to hit my opponent? Again i read somewhere ages and ages ago slower the better for weapons but surely this was reguarding the damage.

Fat and puzzled gimped Efour needs answers/opinions


And why im at it Weapon Bonus % eg will a 35% hit more than a 25% DF item on MOBS not Epic armour i worked that out for my clever self.

feel free to point me to a website that contains truth not other players blags


ta ta


cheers

 

[mid_Efour]

bump 20 people read it and dont know

 

[Blood]

well you wrote that you didnt want our opinion

 

[mid_Efour]

grrr

OK grrr, id love everyones opinions on the subject

 

[Blood]

as long as you use styles, qui is good, when you are ooe, qui doesnt matter.

 

[old.chesnor]

Low qui = high front loaded dmg. So if you are using 2h weaps in RvR, I would try to get qui as low as possible, for massive alpha dmg. But the VN boards have been waffling about this for ages, and they still don't seem to agree.

Qui is good for bow users. Assassins as well, as they tend to use fast weapons where alpha dmg doesn't really matter (crit strikes hit hard enough not to fret about front loaded dmg). And qui also effects %chance to evade, so rogues always get loads.

So, imho, 2h weap users should try to get as little qui as possible.

 

[Solid]

Massive discussions over the longest time over whether Qui effects base damage.

I have read more than not that +Qui makes your style damage get scaled down so you get the same damage over time from styles.

HOWEVER I have also read that +Qui doesnt effect your base damage.

SO If you were hitting for 100 Base Damage with +0 Qui, you will still hit for 100 Base damage with +75 Qui, ie you swing faster but your base damage stays the same, = more base dmaage over time.

COnsidering Base Damage is a very small proportion of overall damage when considering styles, its not a very big damage boost but it IS present (assuming the above statements made on IGN are of course True)

Question then is are you prepared to give up a bigger alpha strike for a smidget of more base damage over time???

 

[old.willowywicca]

as usual solid is right

QUI affects your attack speed, and the bonus damage from styles, it does not affect your base damage at all.

Therefore when using styles, low qui is better, when ooe higher qui is better. from the point of view of frontloaded damage, having a minimal qui is desirable. personnally however I find I have bettter results overall, and in any kind of drawn out engagements with uber high qui instead

oh and I have tested this myself, not just something I heard elsewhere. Haste buffs seem to function the same as if you had loads more qui (ie same base dmg, lower style dmg too)

 

[old.Eynar_Vega]

According to my info, qui also determines evade (along with dex). Nobody seems to know what qui precisely does, apart from swinging a bit faster.

 

[erl]

This comes from the Hunter FAQ. It contains some hunter specific things, but provides a good reading for anyone wondering about qui.

Based upon exhaustive tests on the effects of QUI upon weapon speed and damage, QUI greatly increases the amount of damage dealt over time. Subsequent investigation and postings by the developers have confirmed these test results. Because Hunters have a DEX/QUI buff and access to Swords, the tests were considered fairly definitive. The following conclusions were reached:

1. QUI affects both melee and ranged weapons in the same manner.
2. QUI gives a proportional reduction to the delay of ranged and melee weapons.
3. The cap of delay reduction is not based upon base/starting QUI anymore.
4. The absolute lowest a delay a weapon can be reduced to is 1.5 seconds. It is not a fixed proportion of the original delay.
5. The damage per hit is based purely upon the base DPS and base delay, NOT the modified delay via QUI. QUI will speed up the rate of hits, but NOT reduce the damage per hit. Hence, QUI raises the damage output over time.
6. According to Dave Rickey, there is a "slow weapon bonus" to damage. Between 2.0 and 6.0 delay, this adds up to "a few percentage points". Any reduction in damage per hit is solely based upon the reduction of this bonus, and not the DPS which is based only off weapon delay.
7. Styles however, are effectively a constant DPS buff, and QUI does not increase the damage received from styles. If you swing faster, you will style for less damage per hit. See question #30 for more informatio on how styles operate.

I logged the draw times of bows for every value of QUI from 83 to 206 and found that QUI does indeed reduce draw times proportionally in a very non-smooth step function. Using a 4.8 and 3.9 delay bow with the 1.45 patch, a weapon requires (50 / delay) QUI for each 0.1 second reduction in draw time. This number is rounded up or down to the nearest even integer, and then, it does keep track of fractions in the long run. As those fractions add up, the weapon will require (50 / delay) + 2 QUI for the 0.1 second reduction. In other words, it takes 5 points of QUI above 50 for an exactly 1% reduction off the weapon's delay. Previously, in the 1.44 patch, this was only 4 points of QUI. Because Critical Shot is a multiplier off the normal shot time, those fractions can also cause the Critical Shot time to reduce by 0.1 seconds when the normal shot has not changed.

Percentage reduction off weapon base delay:
(QUI - 50) / 5

Example: 150 QUI means the player has a -20% reduction off this base weapon delay.

The conclusions reached were that QUI is of immense importance for combat, especially for Hunters. It will not reduce your damage per hit while raising the rate at which you hit. If this were true, Hunters would be able to hit twice as fast, for half as much damage. Test Hunters have QUI scores and spears where this would be possible, but it has NOT happened. Because Hunters have the second worst defensive skill set in the entire game (second only to robed casters), utilizing all methods of increasing damage is important. See questions #3, #4, #18, #19, and #30 for more details.

 

[Blood]

and dont forget that if someone is using pbt, you want to hit as fast as possible.

 

[mid_Efour]

thnx

read this and then spent 3 hours reading the http://camelotvault.ign.com/ boards,

basically i shouldnt worry about such trivial matters

 

[old.Eynar_Vega]

Here's the deal on quickness according to the herald:

Quickness affects your swing speed in the same way as dexterity affects casting speed. I'll try to explain this: your swing speed increases by 1% for every 10 quickness points between 50 and 250. Furthermore, for quickness points between 250 and your cap, your swing speed increases by 1% for every 20 quickness points. Let's take someone wielding a 4.0 spd weapon for example: unbuffed he has 150 quickness. Let's apply the formula:
he has 100 quickness points between 50 and 250, so 1%*(100/10)=10%. He'll swing his weapon 10% faster, so 4.0 spd - 10%=3.6spd.

Now let's take someone wielding the same weapon, but with 300 quickness.
He has 200 points between 50 and 250, and 50 points between 250 and 300.
Formula part 1: 1%*(200/10)=20%. Now let's apply it for the remaining points: 1%*(50/20)=2,5%. So he'll swing his weapon 22,5% faster (20%+2,5%), meaning 4.0spd - 22,5%=3.1spd. Hope this clears it up a bit.

 

[Solid]

Nice thread on how Qui effects swing time, Eynar now go dig up an official thread on the damage changes

 

[old.Tbird]

I'll give my very practical experience of Qui from 2 nights back. 47SB/46 Healer duoing Trows in Spind using LA styles(not CS), without the Healers Celerity(a massive grp qui buff in effect) I could rip up an average orange finishing with between 5% & 25% End left. With Celerity I never had End left at the end and would often be stood there swinging unstyled for 4+ rounds, and although untested i'm sure I missed more.

I know from my PoV as a SB qui is a definite no-no unless I am out of endurance already at which point yes it does help.

 

[Solid]

Erm youre saying Qui doesnt scale down end costs on styles even tho it scales down style damage? you must be gravely mistaken, just doesnt make sense to have such a penalty.

 

[old.Emma]

yep thats right solid.. the higher your quickness the lower your style dmg.. ie the part that says.. you perform crappy mid melee style (+69)

your base dmg is not affected by qui only the bit between the (). and if you have celerity dont even bother will styles you will use your end up in seconds.

as for end usage. that im affraid doesnt scale with qui.. you use the same ammount of end regardless of how low/high your quickness is

 

[old.Tbird]

Emma has it right, no scaling down of End when Celerity is used, I am assuming Celerity is just qui buff or course and not affecting any other stats. Healers rave about it but of course they are swinging unstyled so dont see the End problem.

I cant remember if we used lvl1 or 2 at the time because my healer trained up a level between our sessions, but I did point out that my style dmg dropped by close to 50% and it became much harder to pull off chains (that might be because my reflexes are shot away now though )

Take a trip to Spind with a healer and see for yourself, the difference is scary.

 

[Solid]

lol

well for starters Celerity works differently from +Qui items

Celerity should NOT effect style damage
Qui DOES

Celerity therefore quite rightly doesnt rediuce style end costs as the style damage remains constant.

Qui however SHOULD reduce end cost relative to style damage scale down. its just like using a slow 2H weapon that eats massive end per round compared to a fast 1H weapon that doesnt.

Male as someone who runs with very high Qui can you comment on whether you think Qui scales End cost of styles along with its damage or not please?

 

[old.Tbird]

OK well whether it should or shouldn't, it DID affect my style dmg quite badly. To test qui items is harder and will require parsing i'd guess, testing celerity is easy and the end results stand out to the point that no logged tests are needed.

Cant test it now until I get out of Malm unfortunately.

 

[old.willowywicca]

I think that high QUI does NOT lower end costs at all

However I still find that high qui is more effective overall...

 

[old.Eynar_Vega]

Originally posted by Solid
Nice thread on how Qui effects swing time, Eynar now go dig up an official thread on the damage changes

Well, why don't you tell us since you seem to be the only one who know's the deal?

 

[Solid]

If i knew i wouldnt ask you to go dig up official responses.

I make educated guesses on observations and what mechanics make sense. A lot about +Qui doesnt so an official post would really help

 

[Danya]

Get someone to dex/qui buff you and check solid.

 

[snikit]

ok as far as i've seen here high QUI lowers style damage and increases attack speed, so as a blade with a qui of 170 (ish) i'd b better lousing the +QUI items and going for +STR (to increse Style Dmg output)?

 

[old.willowywicca]

Originally posted by snikit
ok as far as i've seen here high QUI lowers style damage and increases attack speed, so as a blade with a qui of 170 (ish) i'd b better lousing the +QUI items and going for +STR (to increse Style Dmg output)?

yes, do that if you find you never ever run out of end, then that'd be the best strategy for you.. if like me you find that you're ooe before you know it, don't gimp yourself by having no qui

 

[old.Eynar_Vega]

To Snikit: sure you may do some more damage with higher strength, but it's the damage over time that counts imo. Let's say a fight lasts 20 sec and you're wielding a 4.0 spd weapon and no quickness. The fight goes like: 200dmg.....200dmg.....200dmg.....200dmg.....200dmg = 1000dmg

Now let's say you have 200 quickness with the same weapon:
180dmg....180dmg.....180dmg.....180dmg....180dmg.....180dmg = 1080dmg

I just gave some random numbers here, but I guess you get the idea...

 

[snikit]

k

 

[old.Maester]

zerg (ie everyday RvR) no qui,,, you never hit more than 2 or 3 hits on any opponent anyway, so low qui=higher styledmg.


duel, lots of qui,, fights tend to take some time,, lots of qui= better dot in the long run.