Quel un slimey petit merde

[Wij]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2935149.stm

He's thrown his toys out of the pram and now wants to be allowed to play again. Has this man no principles ?

 

[mr.Blacky]

No because his main goal was and is to get the best deal for France. I don't think that he really cares who rules Iraq as long as France can get money out of it.

 

[nath]

He is indeed an absolute turd. Almost as transparent as Dubya.

 

[xane]

Despite my comments in other threads where I seem to defend American interests, the reality is I am more anti-anti-war, and the hypocrisy amongst the anti-Americanism is sickening, you don't have to look far for anti-war people sucking up to American corporations when the dollar comes out of the wallet.

France, who have blatently for years opposed everything the Americans have ever done, which for a country whose constitution is based on the American one, and a country who were liberated by the American blood spilt on its shores, reeks of chutzpah.

Particularly their opposition to foreign influence in a country providing a valuable world resource

Actually I'm a bit pro-Europe, which makes me a bit anti-American, specifically in the arena of international commerce. I secretly desire a united Europe to challenge the industrial might of America, I cheer when I hear of an Airbus being bought instead of a Boeing, or a BMW instead of a Dodge.

But the behaviour of France in recent weeks has seriously made be reconsider my views.

 

[sheepsteak]

Our correspondent says France fears the US will cut it out of contracts for the reconstruction of Iraq for failing to back the coalition.

Its ok Jacquey-boy we're going to get fucked too.

 

[Furr]

They might be nice, we may get a few contracts. I doubt the french have much chance.

 

[nath]

Christ Xane don't be a lamewad.

You can't seriously disregard the anti-war camp because there are plenty of fuckwit celebs who want to get involved. Do you honestly believe that Ms Dynamitehee is a representative of the anti-war movement? She's just an ignorant lil slapper who thought it might be a good idea to say "boo war bad!". There are countless informed intelligent people who put valid points about the war forward, don't ignore them because there are prats who share their views.

Need I remind you that for every ignorant anti-war celeb, there are thousands of ignorant gung ho prats who think we should go to war and wipe out all the stinky ragheads. There are retards both sides of the debate, using them to disregard *either* side of the arguement is a bit silly.

 

[xane]

nath,

Firstly, I don't particularly like the gung-ho attitude, but I'm not arguing that point and don't use it as a straw man either.

I'll can give you plenty of examples of "serious" anti-war organizations who are blatently as hypocritical.

To complain that America is doing this for her own interests is undoubtedly true, but it's a rather pitiful argument coming from an organization who seeks similar "interests" from not going to war, even more so when it's a respectable country like France.

Voicing that what America is doing is "illegal" is not very effective when you or your organization is quite willing to perform illegal acts to get your point across.

The ultimate hypocrisy is voicing this all on a forum on The Internet, the very epitome of American free speech, the epitath of American capitalism, the existance of which would never have happened were it not for the American military !

 

[nath]

Yes, that's all well and good, but that doesn't mean the anti-war movement is incorrect. As I said, there are plenty of anti-war people who have nothing to do with illegal acts, who know what they're talking about, AREN'T hypocrites and so on and so on. Using the bad eggs to discredit the whole basket is.. well wrong.

As for the internet being the epitah of free speech and american ideals. Sure, and we're using it thusly. It's quite amusing for people to say "you should appreciate the free speech that you have, so shut the fuck up!". The american ideology of free speech is a good one, I just think it's exploited (the ideology, not free speech itself) and used as an excuse for anything they want to do.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by nath
Christ Xane don't be a lamewad.

fuckwit celebs

She's just an ignorant lil slapper who thought it might be a good idea to say "boo war bad!".

because there are prats who share their views.

ignorant anti-war celeb

thousands of ignorant gung ho prats

Now who is being ignorant?

 

[xane]

Originally posted by nath
As I said, there are plenty of anti-war people who have nothing to do with illegal acts, who know what they're talking about, AREN'T hypocrites and so on and so on.

Plenty ? Show me, please.

 

[nath]

You want a list of names?

And honestly Xane, do you have that much contempt for the anti-war brigade that you think they're all a bunch of hippy jobless ignorants? If so, christ. Try to have a bit more respect and accept the fact that there is a possibility of you being wrong about this whole thing, whether you think you are or not. I have.

 

[Damini]

I must admit, I have a fair bit of contempt for people that take to the streets in all their raging concern for innocent Iraqi lives that could be hurt in the war, yet those same people don't, and didn't seem to give a flying fuck about the innocent Iraqi lives killed under Saddam's regime. That's what burns me. Where were the marches through the streets for those same lives in the past decade?

These people only value a life on the basis of who takes it, and yet they are the one's screaming about alterior motives and lack of altruism.

The real campaigners I can appreciate, and while I might not agree with their stand point I can understand and respect their intellectual stance. The street fodder with their badges and attempts at jingoistic chants make me feel quite annoyed.

 

[dysfunction]

Originally posted by nath
You want a list of names?

And honestly Xane, do you have that much contempt for the anti-war brigade that you think they're all a bunch of hippy jobless ignorants? If so, christ. Try to have a bit more respect and accept the fact that there is a possibility of you being wrong about this whole thing, whether you think you are or not. I have.

You have accepted that you are being wrong about this whole thing, whether you think you are or not.

Thats good to hear indeed!

 

[nath]

I've accepted the possibility that I'm wrong, dysfunction.

And Damini, I saw a parade of about 12 protestors with a megaphone parading up and down kings cross when I was buying a kebab. They amused me loads, they looked so unenthusiastic, and their chants ran out of steam after about 3 attempts

 

[SilverHood]

People from my college tried doing an anti war protest.
They got as far as the pub

 

[nath]

Pff, bloody students.

Speaking of, some of them just can't take a joke

 

[Furr]

Hehehehehehe

Bring it on, War is good, mixes things up a little

 

[(Shovel)]

Originally posted by Damini
I must admit, I have a fair bit of contempt for people that take to the streets in all their raging concern for innocent Iraqi lives that could be hurt in the war, yet those same people don't, and didn't seem to give a flying fuck about the innocent Iraqi lives killed under Saddam's regime. That's what burns me. Where were the marches through the streets for those same lives in the past decade?

I agree. Though those are only the viewpoints that could be expressed in a such a whiney, soundbite friendly way as to make it in to the national media.
More complex (and real) arguments against a US led war (the predicted US Empire building with contracted "rebuilding Iraq" deals) simply didn't get a look in, so those interviewed on the marches were all made to look like fools. Especially with the whole "Bring down Blair!" speech.

The anti-war movement, obscurely, has united a lot of people in a simple belief, but only the people with simple arguments got a public voice.

The only anti-war argument of some substance that I saw was George Monbiot being interviewed halfway through, and he was given about five minutes (within a question and answer situation) to put across his view on imperial America.

Whatever you think of the different viewpoints for pro/anti war, we'll never hear them all.

 

[old.UKTwister]

Ok saddam has killed a lot of his own people etc..

but initially i think it wasn't about this at all. More about the threat to other countries.

So far they have found zilch evidence of weapons of mass destruction.

 

[xane]

Originally posted by (Shovel)
Though those are only the viewpoints that could be expressed in a such a whiney, soundbite friendly way as to make it in to the national media.

Ironically, the very same criticism is freequently used of the government "soundbite" and spin machine.

Most of the rhetorical one-line anti-war statements simply do not hold up to serious examination. "This war is illegal", etc, are not simplistic views, but complex issues that have yet to be decided.

Furthermore, many anti-war statements are downright confusing and even contradictory. First American is accused of arming Saddam with banned weapons, then suddenly Saddam has no banned weapons - which is it ?

On the subject of America arming Saddam, after seeing all that combat video footage I never knew America manfuctured Kalashnikovs, T-72s, BMP-1s, MiGs and Scuds, and it seems strange why Saddam owed Russia a few billion dollars, whatever could he have bought with all that money ?

P.S. Russia is a democracy now, you _can_ demonstrate against it without dear of reprisal.

Originally posted by (Shovel)
George Monbiot

Monboit is an asshole, like the many other darlings of the anti-war movement he neatly skirts issues and weasels words in neat journalese to convict anyone, in his case the target is America.

Again, ironically, Monboit will enter his cosy little Guardian office and scribble his latest vitrolic diatribe on the government of the day, blissfully unaware that he wont be hauled off some dark night never to be seen again. Such is the comfort of freedom of speech, eventually you just don't realise how fucking lucky you are, especially when it pays your wages.