poor zerkers :(

[old.stabba]

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=30455674

second ninja-nerf in 1.50, SB:s are now the absolut winner of the nerf-award in this patch . 2 specc lines ninja nerfed already, cant wait til we see some confirmation on the perf-nerf aswell, then i think we can rightfully claim the throne from Hunters in nerfage. had a damn good laugh when i read the "use-reactionary" styles as an advice to zerkers . well guess youll have to use "tactics" with your rat-form eh . at least now albs have the best assassins too, maybe that will attract more people to this really underpowered and underpopulated realm .
saw some logs of a SZ being outdamaged in melee by a ranger, and tbh isnt that needed so that detect hidden wont affect the scouts as much? after all they have no run buff and therefore should win against assassins, especially if the assassin have specced to take them out. so the question is, whos next? my first guess whould've been skalds since minstrels whould prolly go safe on a skald nerf (after all they are alb) but im placing 10g on the black knight in the nerf-tour -the Spiritmaster.

 

[Gekul]

I remember reading that this change was accidental :/

 

[Flimgoblin]

These 'albs are too powerful' rants are always amusing
Thousands of them on the IGN boards... usually accompanied by at least as many 'mids are too powerful' rants.

As far as I know it's only doublefrost that got stealth-nerfed (which is a sucky way to do it), the other LA styles actually gained in power (lower skills scaling better with level).

Shadowzerkers will still outmatch an infilmerc by miles as Dual Wield sucks. (Don't forget your two handed backstab too - although thats critblades rather than shadowzerks )

That said I've no idea if infilmerc is a popular template at all?

Roll on DW fixes

 

[Tasans]

If the shadowzerker are going to outdamage the zerker whats the point in playing one?

 

[Tigerius]

In theory fix is correct, but it's very narrowminded to fix a single style and yet not take a look at the specline as a whole after the change, see what this seemingly small change meant for the entire specline.

Not to mention stealth-nerfing in itself being a very bad approach.

 

[old.mili]

Originally posted by Tigerius
In theory fix is correct, but it's very narrowminded to fix a single style and yet not take a look at the specline as a whole after the change, see what this seemingly small change meant for the entire specline.

Not to mention stealth-nerfing in itself being a very bad approach.

In theory we wont be gettin the 1.50 patch till GOA go bankrupt and we get a proper company running the servers and the patch process, but untill then be

 

[Tasans]

Oh don't forget the zerkers unique realm ability Tundra the great style(which does less damage than doublefrost) and it is not usable with LA. Mercs DW and Bms CD will never get improved, instead zerkers and LA got nerfed down to their level.

 

[old.Arnor]

The definatly worst thing about this is that Sanya just leaves a statement like that out there, just hangs the poster on the wall and goes back in.
People can flame and reason forever, but show me ONE sign that USER INPUT is valued.
Zerkers

 

[old.Xarr]

nerfs sting

 

[old.Arnor]

FFS! Instead of nerfing they should be "upgrading"
Instead of making zerkers worse, make blademasters and mercs BETTER!
Nerfing sucks for anyone who gets it (Except Armsmen)

 

[old.stabba]

"but show me ONE sign that USER INPUT is valued."
-guess you could argue that every nerf is brought upon you by user input. LA was alot better than the other dualwields, everyone thaught that the others whould be upped instead. seems everything that makes a class good in this game is a bug, shame to see mythic nerfing everything in sight and i dont think anyone is happy that LA got nerfed (maybe infs and shades).

 

[old.tuppe]

what makes me angry whit this, Bers only weapon are axes, there is not any other.
poor armour! no magic, no range weapons, nada, only beatiful outfit and frenzy.
sb still have change to think other way to play succesfull, bers dont! (offcourse only if have change to respecs)
if you frenzie in fight, do ~35% more damage, but same time nothing defense work and over 30% more incoming damage, evade, parry, nothing change to resist spells.
they say do other moves but when goes frenzy, how in hell you make move what require parry? evade?
instead need try do succesfull 3 moves chain in not laggy rvr.

all this is better explained ign page, but makes me think!
if mythic in base time nerf totally 2-3 class, and hope they start play new.
yammi, income again for 3-4 months.

 

[Danya]

skalds need a nerf after 1.50 nerfed minstrels to crap... or mythic could just make see hidden less lame.

 

[klavrynd]

yep i totally agree

give minstrels an ability (passive) totally unable to be destealthed after lvl 10, give them 2 instaheals, ability to wear plate , speccable large shield and a pulsing BT

skalds should get studded armor , one dd less and a bigger timer on the mez (like 30 minutes?)

since we're giving suggestions i think , to be on par with shammies ( hell, clerics and friars get the same base buffs as well so why shouldn't shammies and healers be more similar) and totally dump the pac line and give em evade 1 instead.


and since midgards "uber" weapons they find so easily ( shake a tree wherever in middie and they fall out so you'll never have to wear blueconning armor/weapons again like the poor albies have to) procs for more damage then a triple wielding bm does , triple wield is utter useless and you can take that off as well , instead they get a life-drain proccing weapon every 5 levels from their trainer (due to the proc we'll have to lower dps offcourse)

 

[Gekul]

Skalds are the most balanced class imo, that makes them the next to be nerfed

 

[SFXman]

Originally posted by klavrynd
yep i totally agree

give minstrels an ability (passive) totally unable to be destealthed after lvl 10, give them 2 instaheals, ability to wear plate , speccable large shield and a pulsing BT

Hehehe....would be great

 

[Riddler]

Originally posted by Dannyn
skalds need a nerf after 1.50 nerfed minstrels to crap... or mythic could just make see hidden less lame.

haha, how can u whine about a minstrel?

(/em mumbles something about...rogue class with chainarmor, ddx2,stealth, stun,mez,stealth, speed, stealth...)

sure, skalds need Str, Con, Dex AND Char as Primary stat, Stealth, Insta AE-mez, Insta AE-Stun, Smite, Snare with DD, AE Root

 

[Gekul]

lol, you've changed your avatar. nice

 

[klavrynd]

you forgot groupfriendlyness ( being a powerbattery and basic cc) which is something none of the other (pseudo) assasins have

 

[old.Xarr]

hehe riddler, kickass!

your new avatar rocks

 

[Flimgoblin]

post on the camelot herald regarding this, either their stats are wrong or people have been making mountains out of molehills again.

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/358.php

 

[klavrynd]

all i can say is "bla bla bla"

sanya is just a two-faced pr mongrel and a sellout.

gathered from various sources :

-at the E3 she says DF wasnt on purpose and they "would look into this"

isnt it normal that all styles grow in damage (except for the first style you get) ??

-@ ign boards : we're setting the base damage to a lower level and you zerkies just need to use more reactive styles in rvr

-herald : well , overall damage reduction when you're a df whore would be about 3%


-they supply some cryptic formula in which , when properly analysed they state the bloody obvious

("All Left Axe styles which grow in damage as you train further in left axe have the amount they grow doubled. This is to balance out the fact that left axe damage is cut in half (because two weapons hit every round" is the one im talking about)

What i mean is :

a) don't stealthnerf but ffs add it in the patchnotes
b) when you do, dont expect getting off easily by just posting some Q&A on the herald (if you should believe the ppl @ ign boards there wouldve been quite some cancellations )
c) well ... ehm ... balance classes upwardswards and not downwards

 

[old.Arnor]

Thanks fingoniel, that really cleared things up for me, the future doesnt look that grim anymore

 

[Subbiz]

Originally posted by GekuL
I remember reading that this change was accidental :/

no its not accidential they have said that they have corrected the buggy doublefrost, makes me wonder why it took them so long to "correct" it...

what about doing something about berserkers styles, I mean, after 34 we get _one_ good combo style on evade that stuns, thats IT! no other good styles, even the lvl 50 styles are pathetic

atleast heroes get a lvl 50 long duration stun style w/ opening from behind.. thats nice.. we get a sucky bleed combo style and an even more useless parry style.. :/

 

[Subbiz]

full post here:

Author Topic: Left Axe and Doublefrost
Sanya_DAOC
Posts: 908
Registered: Jun 01
Date Posted: 5/29 9:38am
Subject: Left Axe and Doublefrost

First, let me say that the only reason I didn't look into this before now was because of E3 - I was out of town all of last week. But I did receive your emails and your feedback forms from the Herald.

Here's the patch note from 1.50 concerning left axes:

"- All Left Axe styles which grow in damage as you train further in left axe have the amount they grow doubled. This is to balance out the fact that left axe damage is cut in half (because two weapons hit every round)."

Now, that should actually show up in your experience as an improvement. You won't see one immediately, nor does the change mean you are now doing double damage. But, as you level, you should be doing better than before. If you were increasing 1 damage every time you leveled, for example, you should now be increasing 2 damage every time you level.

Moving on to the specific issue revolving around doublefrost - oh, boy. I don't personally play a berserker, and there was nothing in the patch notes to indicate a change. So, what I told people at E3, was that to the best of my knowledge there had been no change, but that I would look into it when I got home (people quoting me seem to be leaving out the parts about "to the best of my knowledge" and "will look into it" =)) I was giving interviews the entire time, and was not able to speak to the gentleman who does code changes for styles until we got back to the East Coast.

Had there BEEN a patch note on the doublefrost change, it might have looked something like this:

"The Doublefrost style (which has no opening requirement) base damage was incorrectly set to match that of a reactionary style, i.e. a style with an opening move required. We have increased the bonus damage that this style does, and we have slightly lowered the base damage to reflect the "use anytime" nature of this style."

No other style without an opening move could do the kind of damage that Doublefrost could. So, we had two choices - either correct the base damage figure, or give Doublefrost an opening move requirement. The programmer opted to make a minor correction to the base damage. (When I say minor, I mean a very small percentage - he decided NOT to take Doublefrost's base damage all the way down to the level of other no-opener styles.) He added the increase to bonus damage to make the change less dramatic, and of course this style is affected by the improvement made to all left axe styles.

Essentially, people who ONLY used the doublefrost style, and not any of the others, will notice a difference in damage. People who've been using a variety of styles, on the other hand, are reporting very different results. I'm not talking out my rear end here, I'm comparing logs that many of you have kindly sent me. The logs showing changes in damage for the worse have one thing in common - only doublefrost is being used.

The issues a few of you have mentioned, regarding increased or static effectiveness in PVE, but a decrease in PVP, are being looked into right now, so I can't tell you anything about that either way until I see some data.

With all that said, and I hope I was clear, the fact that the change to doublefrost was not documented is an embarassment, and I apologize for the omission.

 

[Subbiz]

so they have changed it, and from the logs Ive seen from the US zerkers, we get to do less damage.

no problem with that just FIX OUR F*CKING 40+ STYLES!

 

[Subbiz]

oh yea btw they say use ractionary styles more..
in 1.50 the buggs with parry/block/evade in rvr is fixed (atm u dont see these defensive skills kick in as often as inteded). That makes it easier for u to launch a reactionary style, but also degrades the chances of success, specially in the long 3-combo ones..

and I've read logs and logs and logs, and it seems like ppl do less dmg..
im just gonna make a runie ready for 1.50, and see how its gonna be like.. I really hope it isnt as bad as they say:|

 

[old.Arnor]

The message I sent to Mythic

A balancing question since you stated in this grab-bag (http://www.camelotherald.com/more/358.php) that "There are three kinds of damage formulas for styles – “use anytime” styles have the lowest base damage, styles that require an opening move have a medium base damage, and “end of chain” styles have the highest base damage. DF had a medium base damage, when it should have had the lowest version. "

Now why is it that:
Albion has "slash 29 - Amethyst Slash - Medium fatigue cost, low/medium bonus damage, large bonus to hit"
"polearm 39 - Poleaxe - High fatigue cost, use any time, medium bonus damage "
"2h 39 - Doubler - High fatigue cost, use any time, medium bonus damage, small bonus to hit "
"staff 29 - Friar's Boon - Medium fatigue cost, medium bonus damage, medium bonus to defense
34 - Holy Staff - High fatigue cost, use any time, medium bonus damage, small bonus to hit "

Midgard has "Sword 34 - Polar Rift - High fatigue cost, use any time, medium bonus damage, small bonus to hit"
"spear 34 - Whirling Spear - High fatigue cost, use any time, medium bonus damage, small bonus to hit, small penalty to defense "

Hibernia has "blade 18 - Fire Blade - High fatigue cost, use any time, medium bonus damage, small bonus to hit, small penalty to defense "
"blunt 18 - Force of Might - High fatigue cost, use any time, medium bonus damage, small bonus to hit "
largeweapons 15 - Domination - High fatigue cost, use any time, medium bonus damage, small bonus to hit, small penalty to defense "
"Celtic dual 21 - Hurricane - High fatigue cost, use any time, medium bonus damage, small bonus to hit, medium penalty to defense "
"Celtic spear 34 - Eagle Talon - High fatigue cost, use any time, medium bonus damage, small bonus to hit"

All realms
"shield 42 - Slam - Very high fatigue cost, use any time, medium bonus damage, long duration stun "
"critical strike 18 - Garrote - High fatigue cost, use any time, medium bonus damage, causes medium duration movement reduction, medium bonus to hit, medium penalty to defense "