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PoC Hammer question

Discussion in 'Hibernia' started by Yurka, Mar 14, 2005.

  1. Yurka

    Yurka One of Freddy's beloved

    Is the proc working for other people, did some breif tests awhile ago and I did notice dmg increase, some people have agreed with this and some haven't. If it isn't working surely it could be a case of rightnow fixing it to proc/debuff at the normal rate?
     
  2. Summoner

    Summoner Fledgling Freddie

    give link to hammer stats plz
     
  3. Summoner

    Summoner Fledgling Freddie

    imo it's one of the most deadly weapons together with BMF. Other realms don't have any weapon slower than 4.2 available for light tanks. So u should take advantage of it.

    4.3 poc hammer would give ya ~ 6-7% more base dmg cap if u compare with 4.1 malice/battler/croc.

    Still it's not a problem to cap %melee dmg and %styled dmg with Malice hammer in offhand + artie vest + scalars + GolM.

    But even better boost u'd get from BMF + croc. It's just harder to cap everything cos u'd need dex and dex cap as well.

    Even w/o a proc it worths making sucha template; proc makes it even more deadly.
     
  4. Summoner

    Summoner Fledgling Freddie

    ADD. Mid version of the hammer has 3.9 speed, so it's no sense to use it on zerker as it lower base dmg cap by 5% or so. Neither albs is good unless for offhand with Malice MH.
     
  5. Stallion

    Stallion Can't get enough of FH

    overrated is all I can say
     
  6. Summoner

    Summoner Fledgling Freddie

    explain plz
     
  7. Stallion

    Stallion Can't get enough of FH

    sure it might lower your damage cap, but you have same damage over time, NOT taking haste effect with slow main / fast off into account. comparing 4,3 + 3,3 with 4,1 + 3,3. The 4,6% slower mainhand will mean a roughly ~2% haste increase over 4,1 + 3,3.

    If you wanna use poc hammer in mainhand, be sure to get a faster mainhand, 4.3 + 4.1 is NOT viable. same thing to all you other gimp meleers with malice/battler combo :p
     
  8. Summoner

    Summoner Fledgling Freddie

    i agree that 4.3+4.1 is not better that 4.1+3.5 but still 4.3+4.1 is better than 4.1+4.1, it's just 0.1s slower and makes some dmg difference.

    But what do u say bout BMF + croc? (ignoring the fact that u like ur slash dmg on zerkers ofc ;))
     
  9. Jika

    Jika Fledgling Freddie

    all I can say that I cant use croc as piercer :(
     
  10. Summoner

    Summoner Fledgling Freddie

    Btw

    1. 4.3 + 4.1, 230 qui, 20% haste, 10% melee speed -> 2.00s a swing
    2. 4.1 + 3.5, 230 qui, 20% haste, 10% melee speed -> 1.81s a swing

    lets assume 20s timeframe.
    1 hits 11 times (including initial swing), 2 - 12 times

    every swing 1 does ~ 10% more dmg with MH, abount the same of offhand it's about the same dmg collected during 20s as 1 extra swing.
     
  11. Stallion

    Stallion Can't get enough of FH

    BMF + crooc is most deadly combo taking haste effect into account, same with poc hammer + blunt offhand (ml10).

    The thing is the proc, malice procs alot, im sure the abs debuff procs alot aswell. But in my experience malice proc > abs proc in a set grp.

    To remember! is if you use slow mainhand and whatever 3.5 or 3.3 offhand, usaly you will lose dps if you have 240-250 qui, 10% toa haste + 20% -17% druid haste, ON the offhand if it singel hits. This hits in even harder with DR not beeing in the game anymore, but its overcomeable for close to cap swing on mainhand.

    Example1:
    Mainhand 4.1
    Offhand 3.3
    245 qui
    10% toa melee speed bonus
    20% druid haste buff

    Mainhand swingspeed: 1.85976 sec
    Offhand swingspeed: 1.49688 sec (-0,00312 overcapped)
    Dual swingspeed: 1.67832 sec (0,17832 from cap)

    aprox 10.81% haste effect when dualhitting

    Example2:
    same factors but 4.3 insteed of 4.1

    Mainhand swingspeed: 1.95048 sec
    Offhand swingspeed: 1.49688 sec (-0,00312 overcapped) (same as ex1)
    Dual swingspeed: 1.72368 sec (0,22368 from cap)

    aprox 13.15% haste effect when dualhitting

    2,34% more haste effect vs 4.1 with a 4.3. I prefere malice proc then 2,34 % faster swingspeed.
     
  12. Stallion

    Stallion Can't get enough of FH

    taken into account you dual hit on each swing. with 65 modified CD @ rr5 you have ~69% to dual hit.
     
  13. Yurka

    Yurka One of Freddy's beloved

    blunt ml10 off hand is around 3.8 or 3.7 spd i think, so surely croc is better?
     
  14. wittor

    wittor Can't get enough of FH

    I got told that if you use the poc hammer then you should use croc in offhand =o
     
  15. Yurka

    Yurka One of Freddy's beloved

    thats my current setup atm anyway
     
  16. Vodkafairy

    Vodkafairy Fledgling Freddie

    ive the best argument for malice + croc/ml10 sword being best combo:

    poc hammer is so damn ugly :mad:
     
  17. Yurka

    Yurka One of Freddy's beloved

    my face more than makes up for it
     
  18. Shatar

    Shatar Fledgling Freddie

    Actually there is in mid a 4.4 hth weapon for savages, Salamander Tail! \o/
     
  19. Ilum

    Ilum One of Freddy's beloved

    I would like to know the exact number how haste effect increased the dmg. I don't really know, so I just gotta go by hunch when judging whats best.

    Poc + ML10 offhander = 4.4 + 3.7 (or 4.3 from ingame delve)
    Croc is 3.5? So 0.2 difference...can it be activated as crush?

    ML10 offhander gives 2% melee stacking with other, so possibility of getting more than 10% bonus. And ML10 does have a lot more UV. Especially if you're not thrust.

    Of course procs also makes a difference.
     
  20. staj

    staj Banned

    Haste effect works like this,

    when you dual swing your weapons the speed of them is calculated on the speed of both the mainhand and the offhand. Giving you a average swingspeed on both weapons. This means you benifit from having a fast offhand and a slow mainhand, as the mainhand get to swing faster due to its speed beeing lowered by offhands speed, and you get a average value.

    Look at it this way.

    If you have 4.3 spd mainhand and 3.5 speed offhand. The average base swing speed for these 2 weapons is (4.3 + 3.5) / 2 = 3.9 spd.

    This means you get to swing at 3.9 spd with a 4.3 spd weapon, for the same damage? w00t this is actully ~10% more damage over time. The hits are the same, but as you might notice you get to swing one extra time per 10th swing. Basicly 10% more damage.

    If you then calculate 3,9 with 250 qui 10% wep speed + 20% druid haste. this gives you 1.741 swing speed, compared to 1.92 which you swing for when you singel hit.


    im not that good with blunt but I cant see anywhere that there is a blunt version.
     
  21. Ilum

    Ilum One of Freddy's beloved

    Yeah I know this, but it's not all the maths.

    Yes, you swing faster like you say - but only when you dual wield. Need to take that in account. As well as that, you swing faster yes, but your offhand hits for less damage as well - need to take that into account too.

    Which is what I mean by I would like an exact number :p cba to calc it myself.

    Only way to really opt a bm template perfectly is knowing exactly how qui, str, cd skill, melee skill, haste effect, melee dmg, style dmg and melee speed affects dmg :p
     
  22. Summoner

    Summoner Fledgling Freddie

    Croc dagger cannot be activated as crush/hammer/blunt weapon afaik, otherwise all crush mercs would be slightly op :)

    Auroriel, savage is another story, no charge light tank and not many r active nowaday. And savage has lowered ws if u compare with other light tanks, thus base dmg cap wouldn't be that huge for savage.
     
  23. Summoner

    Summoner Fledgling Freddie

    Ilum, there is no answer which could be applied for all the cases.

    Number of hits in row matters a lot, then luck with dual hits for bm/merc and many other factors.

    hi btw if u remember gimped wizy from Black Company guild on alb/pryd / Alandir :)
     
  24. staj

    staj Banned

    at rr5 with 11 from items you should hit with both weps 70% of the time. so basicly you can say in theory you do 10% more dmg over time 70% of the time you attack.

    your offhand does not hit for less damage due to the haste effect, however it does do lower damage if you overcap it, which you sometimes do if you want a nice haste effect. its about finding a balance. se below the example.

    example

    3.5 speed wep swings @ 1.5624 secs with 250 qui, 20% druid haste and 10% melee speed. (your above cap and lose no dps)

    3.3 speed wep swings @ 1.47312 secs with the same stats/bonuses. (overcapping & losing dps by 1,8%)


    to do 10% more dmg 70% of the time over a loss of 1.8% dmg with offhand.
     
  25. staj

    staj Banned

    all you have to take into account is your weapon speeds, quickness to opt your BM, rest should be as high as possible (withing the caps)
     
  26. Ilum

    Ilum One of Freddy's beloved

    i thought it was like this:

    the mainhand dmg is calculated from mainhand spd/dps. the delay is calculated from both weaps divided by 2, when you dual wield.

    the offhand dmg is calculated from offhand spd/dps. same with delay etc.

    im not saying the offhand hits for less damage due to haste effect, im just saying it hits for less damage because of the faster speed.
     
  27. Summoner

    Summoner Fledgling Freddie

    Staj, overcapping swing speed doesn't affect weapon base dmg but only dmg added from styles. Offhander always hit with its base dmg.

    3.3speed offhander has lower base dmg cap than 3.5speed, so it hits for less dmg in avarage.

    PS. Didn't see Ilum's post, soz
     
  28. Shatar

    Shatar Fledgling Freddie

    I know that, but just wanted to be a smartass and imo savage is still a light tank. I would try and play savage if I would for sum reason come back since I love the class (even though I would prolly wind up playing healur)
    I also think you can activate croc tooth as hammer, pretty sure Meril had croc tooth 1h hammer (but can't say for sure). I though have no idea if it is available as crush or blunt.
     
  29. staj

    staj Banned

    your spd/dps which the damage is calculated from is the same, its the delay which is lower. The delay is the average of them both. This means if you overcap like in my previous post, the damage is the same as if you would have haste effect. althou taking into account you almost always hit with mainhand if you hit with offhand, (not taking missed mainhand swings into account), you are either overcapped with offhand or you'r not, its easy to overcap it if u want a nice haste effect. Balance between them is the best.
     
  30. Ilum

    Ilum One of Freddy's beloved

    well equip a fast offhander and you'll notice offhand cap drop
     

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