Piracy: try before you buy

[old.Tohtori]

i was agreeing with you

it was rather hard to see what you meant as you quoted another and commented on another you silly person!

But on what you said, yes, people shouldn't pirate, but then agian, companies should come a bit ways towards the customer too.

Old games had it right, timed demos, demos that reflected the whole game etc.

 

[crispy]

[youtubevid]-LkWKvMCzqA[/youtubevid]

^^

Hey Jack, dont be a douche, put your albums on the internets and let us buy them. DRM free, and lossless and at a fair price

 

[Corran]

Well my summary of what Jack said....

"I am only interested in being rich, if I cant make myself rich I cant be bothered to make money. As money is my only inspiration!"

And, I dont particularly fit in any them catagories. Just depends on how I feel with what I do.

If it a game I would never buy and I download it... the company not lost anything as they would never have got my money in first place. Just I gained the ability to have a look what it like anyways just because I am semi interested in seeing it (ie graphics + machine performance)

Also, if they made games last more then about 10hrs it would encourage me to buy it. Most just feel a waste of money when it over so quickly.

 

[Chrystina]

uhm, there are other games besides World of Warcraft?!

 

[Ormorof]

i always buy games, as some poor peon has probably spent months slaving away at it, however i only buy maybe two or three games a year and usually only either its something ive been waiting for ages to come out or ive heard its amazing from friends (or a continuation on something i already had ie Fifa 08, FM08 etc)

 

[old.Tohtori]

i always buy games, as some poor peon has probably spent months slaving away at it,

Have to say, that is a poor reason to buy games.

This from a guy in the "making games" biznaz, we peons get paid for a job, we peons then are happy, the game is out, we get credit, and what is done with the game is no longer our concern.

We don't see a DIME of the cash the game makes, unless royalties are counted, which are peanuts, paid MAYBE after two years after the release and even then, the game has to be a hit to make enough cash to the producers for any of it to trickle back to the developer.

And even it rains some golden money showers around the developer parts, even then usually the developement company takes most the cash to keep itself running.

So, don't buy games to pay the people who made them, we already got paid plenty.("plenty")

 

[megadave]

Just spent ages thinking about it and to my memory the last game i bought was dark age of camelot rest i have downloaded but there hasnt been that many and the only one i've played solidly my brother ended up buying.


If i were to justify why i "steal" these games it's because if i didnt, then i wouldnt buy them at all because they cost so much, it's either pirate them or not have them at all and icant say im bothered that i havent paid. ps3 games is another matter, i spent shitloads of them, just had Army of Two delivered today infact


edit: actually i got a pirated Peggle and AudioSurf and play them quite a lot

 

[old.Tohtori]

Hmm. Was thinking what was wrong with the "i wouldn't buy them, so i'll load them" logic, but just can't put my finger on it.

Personally, i don't load games. If i don't play them, i don't. I mostly buy games for consoles, and if i play on the PC, i play momorpegers. So piracy on games is, well, kinda non-possible for me.

Last game i bought was oblivion GOTY edition and it's brought hours and hours of entertainment for such a low cost. Only 40e for a buttload of gametime.

Before that, well, they've all been those pesky momorpegers that steal all your gametime.

 

[Ctuchik]

ive more or less grown out of downloading games now. sure theres still a few i'l download. but thats only because they arent available for purchase anymore and i dont trust ebay or any of the other auction sites to actually give me what i paid for.

but anyway, the only reason i downloaded in the first place were only because my economy wouldn't allow me to buy all the games i wanted to play, so usually i just bought the games i knew was good, downloaded the rest to try out and then put those that were good on the "to buy" list.

but sure, i've downloaded games and skipped the buying part to because they werent good enough to pay for. i still played them for a while just to give them a chance but usually i didnt even bother to burn them (virtual DVD ftw) and deleted them when i got bored of them. thats mainly why i have such a hard time understanding why ppl complain about it. i mean, i wouldn't buy most of the games that end up on the virtual DVD anyway even if downloading the games werent an option. so its not like they lose a guaranteed sale on me doing that. but i HAVE bought quite a few games that i WERE unsure off and that the demo didnt help anything with by downloading the full game and then buy it because of that.

demos are decieving imo. usually they dont really show whats actualy in the full game, sure they do this a tad more now then what it used to be but more often then not the demos are somewhat missleading, usually only have the cool stuff in there etc etc etc.

but ofc, then theres the ppl (thats probably the majority of the pirates) that only do it because its free and have 0 intention of buying the games they download.

 

[Ctuchik]

Hmm. Was thinking what was wrong with the "i wouldn't buy them, so i'll load them" logic, but just can't put my finger on it.

Personally, i don't load games. If i don't play them, i don't. I mostly buy games for consoles, and if i play on the PC, i play momorpegers. So piracy on games is, well, kinda non-possible for me.

Last game i bought was oblivion GOTY edition and it's brought hours and hours of entertainment for such a low cost. Only 40e for a buttload of gametime.

Before that, well, they've all been those pesky momorpegers that steal all your gametime.

theres that to ofc. i have 6 or 7 MMORPG's i play atm and i just cant find the time to play any single player games so thats also an excuse not to download them that and the fact that SP games are SO fucking boring :<

 

[Ormorof]

Have to say, that is a poor reason to buy games.

This from a guy in the "making games" biznaz, we peons get paid for a job, we peons then are happy, the game is out, we get credit, and what is done with the game is no longer our concern.

We don't see a DIME of the cash the game makes, unless royalties are counted, which are peanuts, paid MAYBE after two years after the release and even then, the game has to be a hit to make enough cash to the producers for any of it to trickle back to the developer.

And even it rains some golden money showers around the developer parts, even then usually the developement company takes most the cash to keep itself running.

So, don't buy games to pay the people who made them, we already got paid plenty.("plenty")

well i feel bad if i didnt buy a game (though i get pissed off if i buy a game then its wank), also theres issues with stability, reliability etc, also it looks nicer on my shelf :O

would you rather i didnt pay for the games but congratulated the guys who made it instead? goodwill doesnt feed many hungry bellies!

 

[old.Tohtori]

would you rather i didnt pay for the games but congratulated the guys who made it instead? goodwill doesnt feed many hungry bellies!

Hungry...bellies?

Average game dev peep in the "lower ranks" gets, in cr*ppy finland pay even, atleast 2000e/month.

2500 is easy to get.

I bet a game dev would appreciate a thank you letter more then the fact you bought the game, sure, it's nice to know you bought the game and liked it, but they won't see your cash.

 

[Eeben]

Hungry...bellies?

Average game dev peep in the "lower ranks" gets, in cr*ppy finland pay even, atleast 2000e/month.

2500 is easy to get.

I bet a game dev would appreciate a thank you letter more then the fact you bought the game, sure, it's nice to know you bought the game and liked it, but they won't see your cash.

i duno how much it cost to live in finland but 2500 isnt much compared to denmark . that like what i made at mc d

 

[old.Tohtori]

i duno how much it cost to live in finland but 2500 isnt much compared to denmark . that like what i made at mc d

Well it ain't "rich b*tch!" money, but it's certainly no nurses pay, that's for sure.

No hungry bellies in the game industry.

 

[crispy]

Just spent ages thinking about it and to my memory the last game i bought was dark age of camelot rest i have downloaded but there hasnt been that many and the only one i've played solidly my brother ended up buying.


If i were to justify why i "steal" these games it's because if i didnt, then i wouldnt buy them at all because they cost so much, it's either pirate them or not have them at all and icant say im bothered that i havent paid. ps3 games is another matter, i spent shitloads of them, just had Army of Two delivered today infact


edit: actually i got a pirated Peggle and AudioSurf and play them quite a lot

Peggle!

 

[Lethul]

i download everything

 

[echome]

I download games, movies, apps and music. I am a pirate.

Sometimes I buy a game, if I want the MP part. I would never dream of buying a movie.

 

[megadave]

^well said

 

[Fafnir]

Well if its games like Ages of Empires, Civilization, Total War i buy them, they are generally good.

But normally i check if there is a demo out, if there is not, and i'm really instressted i download the game try it out, if i like it i order the game online, and get it the next day or so.

So many hyped crap games out there, and no i will not ever buy online from say EA and download, when i can get a offline copy for half the price at Webhallen, with delivery next day.

And what i find funny, most "big buisness companies" Try to get more cash out of the game from you if you buy from their online stores, than if you buy the game from a normal store.

Take BF2142 i looked at EA they wanted something around 500 SEK at the time, i bought it at Webhallen at release day for 349 SEK around 15 Euro difference. And at the same time i checked BF2 prices and EA wanted fullprice for it. While you could buy it in normal stores for 15-20 euro.

 

[Thorwyn]

I am a pirate.

Ok, have to get this off my chest...

Being a game designer, I´m making a living out of producing and designing games. When it comes to copying software, I haven´t been a Saint in the past myself and even today, I still disagree with some things on the software market, especially the use of "professional" software for private or educational purposes. Whenever you apply for a job in the industry, the requirements are profound knowledge of the usual tools... Photoshop, 3DS Max, Z-Brush. All of those cost a fortune and it´s absolutely impossible to learn how to work with those tools when you don´t have them. As soon as you´re making money out of them, it´s a different story though.
I´ve seen all the arguments of both sides and I´m well aware of the problems and the overall situation. To be honest, I don´t care whether or not people are copying games. I know I can´t convince them, just like nobody would have been able to convince me that I`m doing somethig wrong back in the C64 days when I was copying my *ss off. I accept that.

However, one thing that´s really pissing me off in this entire (and endless) discussion is the sublte selfglorification of the "pirate" fraction, like they´re all a bunch of modern Robin Hoods, fighting for a better world by watching their favourite TV shows and playing their favourite games without feeding the oh so evil moloch of capitalism.

So, in direct response to echome: no, you´re not a "pirate", you´re simply a criminal. As soon as you´re able to admit that and stop trying to convince yourself that you´re actually a cool hero, as soon as you´re ready to say: "yes, I´m copying stuff and I don´t care about the consequences", I`m ready to accept your point of view.

btw, this wasn´t exclusively aimed at you, echome. You just happened to be the last post containing the "pirate" word.

 

[Raven]

I agree which is why i buy games that are worthy of my hard earned. If a company constantly churns out mediocre games or sequel after sequel then they deserve to be ripped off. There needs to be a proper pricing structure, I am more than happy to spend £40 on a decent game that will entertain me for a few weeks/months but there is no way I am spending that on a game that will only pass a few hours.

If you like a game you should reward the devs/producers by paying for it so that they are more inclined to make others of quality. If they are average at best you should encourage them to either put some effort in or go out of business. LEts be honest if the companies that continually peddle sub standard dross went out of business would anyone care or notice?

 

[Xandax]

I buy all my games, just as I buy all the other software I need, unless I can get license from work.
This means, all my Windows are legit, my Office is legit, all my games are legit ....... as a software programmer, I hate piracy and the lousy excuses people try to use to justify taking something illegally just cause they do not want to pay for it, or somehow think they have a right to.

This however means, that I do not simply buy games based on company hype or forum hype. I buy games which gets recommended from people I "trust".
If I do not think I'll enjoy it - I do not buy it, no matter how much a game gets hyped in development.

 

[Sharma]

I don't see why I should pay through the sodding nose for Windows or Office.

They're both so far overpriced it's unreal, and Microsoft wonder why so many people pirate.

Not a lot of people are willing to shell out £150 for it, granted the prices are dropping lately with Microsoft rolling out some budget versions (See Vista's many colours) but it still stings shelling out hundreds for office, even with a student discount it's not cheap.

As for games, a shit game doesn't deserve the 40 quid price tag it usually gets.

Very black and white but it's simple enough, companies who make steaming piles of crap don't deserve the money, hell you can toss the "Put yourself in their shoes for a day" but the fact stands that I personally couldn't care less.

Yes i'm ignorant, but at least I know I am and I couldn't really care.

Shit games and movies don't deserve a penny - Maybe they'll learn to not churn out such rubbish.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Shit games and movies don't deserve a penny - Maybe they'll learn to not churn out such rubbish.

This is the only part i'm gonna comment on. If sh*t movies don't deserve a penny, and i thought LotR(EXAMPLE YOU FANBOIS!) was cr*p, should the franchise be burnt and Peter Jackson be tossed back into the gene pool?

No, 'cause "sh*t" is a personal opinion.

Bad movies and games get the bad end of the stick already, BY the masses. People don't buy the game enough, then it's universally deemed cr*p, and then, and only then, it can be said to be a bad product overall.

Something like, EA, can't be cr*p in the grand scheme of things as there are many many people who like it.

 

[GReaper]

I don't see why I should pay through the sodding nose for Windows or Office.

They're both so far overpriced it's unreal, and Microsoft wonder why so many people pirate.

OEM Windows has a fairly reasonable price. It's around £60 for Vista Home Premium if you can get the OEM edition, and that'll cover the life of a single computer. You obviously can't transfer it to other machines, but if you keep your computer for a long time and don't bother with the latest and greatest operating system then it's decent value for money.

Office on the other hand is a total rip-off.

 

[Chronictank]

This is the only part i'm gonna comment on. If sh*t movies don't deserve a penny, and i thought LotR(EXAMPLE YOU FANBOIS!) was cr*p, should the franchise be burnt and Peter Jackson be tossed back into the gene pool?

No, 'cause "sh*t" is a personal opinion.

Bad movies and games get the bad end of the stick already, BY the masses. People don't buy the game enough, then it's universally deemed cr*p, and then, and only then, it can be said to be a bad product overall.

Something like, EA, can't be cr*p in the grand scheme of things as there are many many people who like it.

Yes but you not liking it doesnt affect that other people do as a result other people who do will pay for it so your not doing so doesn't really matter

If there is a genuinley poor game, then noone buys it and it hits the company in the only place where they will take notice.. their profit margins

 

[Fafnir]

I like the way the developers behind Savage and Savage 2 does it, make a good demo so that you dont have to pay to play, but if you want it all you pay around $20-25.

And then you have Mount & Blade, pretty much open source, play for free to lvl6, then buy it cheap if you like it, and you got loads of great mods. And the game is not even released yet, just in development.

There are more crappy titles out there than the good ones. And its the shite the companies release that cause alot of people to download.

And take the frigging TV shows, i have to download them or wait 10 years or pay loads of money to buy the dvd. And why the hell are the shows so expensive? If they dropped the prices they would sell more.

Ohhh and all theese frigging copy protections companies tries out left and right. They dont care if that copy prot, might have an effect on your comp and shut it down just because you have a program installed. I got 1 comp fucked up by a game i legally bought but has Starforce or what it was called.

hmmm and what was that game that said we dont use copy protection and then the creators of Starforce, release a website where you could download the game.