PBT Thergs In RvR...?

[ezrolith]

Hello...

I have 6 second PBT, and am considering respecing when the respec stones come, if i can get one, i just wanted to know if anyone thought pbt theurgists actually had a use in RvR, or not. With 6 second PBT, Serenity 3 and MCL 1, i can do litle more than run PBT, buff people, and maybe fire 1 or 2 nukes every so often, but less often than most people would believe. From my very limited experience in RvR, all i've ever done is got really bad groups in emain that last 15 minutes, PBT seems to be almost useless as the fights last about 5 seconds, with us losing... unless we outnumber them 2:1. Does anyone think PBT has a use in RvR, or if Wind would be much better?

Thanks.

 

[Silenzio]

think i could love u with my tank...

as far as i know only 2/3 therurg have 6 sec pbt on excal

n that "one ov the reason" why we spend lot ov time eating grass...


Too much selfish therug bye me, is right everyone has to play the way he/she/it like...

but just think that... mid have pbt, hib as lot pbt, alb none...

every time i hit n hib i see... ur blow has been bladeturned...

n alot ov time on mids too...

in more than a year on excal i think i got only 3/4 times pbt in group n only one time the 6 sec ...


it help help alot more than nukes by me... full filled ov caster nuker...


well is ur char ... is ur right to enjoy it as u like...


*so frustrating!!! i made a full supp runi on prydw ;P *

 

[old.Odysseus]

a) learn english please

b) do you know what an earth theurgist can do?
1) run pbt
2) cry for power
3) nothing else

Thats why 90% of the theurgists go air. Maybe its selfish as you say, but why in the world should I go and play a boring character? I play the game for fun.
Besides, theurgists have the best nukes albion can deliver. They are equal to those of a fire wizard on average.

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Silenzio
think i could love u with my tank...

....

it help help alot more than nukes by me... full filled ov caster nuker...

*so frustrating!!! i made a full supp runi on prydw ;P *

Ehm, you think 6 sec PBT helps more then nukes?

With serenity 2 and MCL1 I am able in RvR to buff (EB+haste) every tank in the group, run PBT and nuke the crap out of opponents.

On average I hit a Mid for 360-440 (excl.crit) EVERY 2 seconds. I crit around 1 in 4 shots for an average of 25% (say 100). That's 1700 dmg dealt in 8 seconds on the average Mid. On top of that I absorb with my BT every 10 seconds random damage. And have 2 forms off CC (target root and AoE-mezz)

I could ofcourse switch to 6 sec PBT and absorb (alot) more and deal around 250 dmg every 10 seconds and 1 form of CC (target root).

I did from lvl 26-35 nothing but running PBT and EB/haste coz I had no other tools except running OOM whenever I touched a button. I hated it.

It's really what you like; but I would NEVER respec to 45 earth for that 6 sec PBT.

Theurgists aren't wardens who can spec 6 sec PBT (45 nurture; so best base-buffs due to +2/3x spec), 42 regrowth (best heal; which drains power but nice for emergency) and 21 parry, to be able to parry, carry a shield , scaled armour and be AN UBER SUPPORT CLASS.

Oh yeah they can rezz, buff and heal. If theurg got that in Earth-line it would be fun. Not now.

 

[Aule Valar]

say an earth theurg and a fire wiz in group
6sec pbt, one good nuker, thats about it, possibly one aoe root before you go oop

2 air therugs
5 sec pbt, 2 good nukers, 2 aoe messes and 2 aoe roots

 

[Larik-]

Well, basically I fully agree with the comments on air theurgs from Ody/Puppetmistress. If there is only one in group you have pbt (ok albeit 10secs), (or speed if no minstrel or sorceror is available), some cc, and a nice damage dealer. Put two in a group you have timed 5sec pbt, great nuking , and two backup crowd controllers...
Is speccing air selfish? , or are air theurgs are one of the best classes albion has? We need more of them (us)!

 

[ezrolith]

Hmm.. thanks for the replies... but unless you have serenty 512, you can't nuke every 2 seconds none stop.. I could nuke every 2 seconds to if i wanted... i would run out of mana too, granted you can nuke a hell of a lot more.. but lets try to be realistic with the figures, especially the crit hit rate.

Ok... I can nuke the average mid for about 150 damage every 2 seconds. Thats 750 damage i can deal on the average mid in 10 seconds.

And need i say it is totally rediculous to compare 2 air thergs to 1 earth therg and 1 fire wiz? Did anyone suggest fire wizards were any use? If you want to compare at least an earth and air therg vs 2 air thergs.

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Air theurgs outdamage firewizzes in rvr I think.
If you make a 6sec pbt theurg, great, very nice for pve groups, they will love you.
In rvr you are taking up a valuable groupslot really
You would be like a scout, but actually give the 6 sec pbt.
For the rest, just as useless in a group
Regards, Glottis

 

[ezrolith]

k thx all.

 

[Motowntheta]

Actually if you play an earth theur like a nuker then yes it is going to be a bit of a waste in comparrison to air, but if you play a theur like the support class they are then in 1.60 with the mezz resist on pets then the earth theur can do a bit more in rvr.... earth pets are like annoying walking ever interrupting dots stand at the back of the group (now with added 2000 range tm) search for the guys waving their hands in the air coming towards you. Put 2/3 pets on them and then run around like a maniac whilst their tanks try and pummle you into the ground allowing the rest of your group to start the mopping up. Sure this uses alot of power but with 1.60 remember sorceres and necros are your friend (not to remember that speed bot character type whats their name minstrel or something )

I'm sure Air theurs are more uber than Earth and garner more RPs but it doesn't mean that all Earth theurs suck, just as you don't always have to have a high staff/enhance as a friar

Also remember damage adds are also based upon your earth spec so your tanks should do more damage with your buffs than with the 26 + 11 odd Air theurs. A nice little bonus.

Also with 1.60 if your theur is your main CC rather than a Sorc then you've already lost the fight

 

[Flimgoblin]

I'd not say earth theurgists were useless in RvR but to say an Air theurgist is selfish is just plain stupid.

If you have a sorcerer next patch with crack-5 or a necromancer mana-bot it could be quite interesting.

as the fellow said you probably shouldn't be nuking too much - an earth theurgists's tools are her debuffs and pets (and that rather nifty full-spec-earth-buff ... mmm.. not that it gains the theurg any rps). Pet those enemy casters and healers debuff the tanks, run like hell.

The main problem for earth theurgists at the moment is you have to cast 6s pbt - a warden can run speed/damage/whatever till they get to the fight then flip on 6s pbt - then the moment the fight ends switch it off again. A theurgist will either have to run 6s pbt all the time (so no mana regeneration for you), or quickcast it the moment the fight starts.

I imagine suppression runeys have similar problems - although they can run 8s pbt and nuke instead if they feel like it.

 

[ezrolith]

Originally posted by Motowntheta
Actually if you play an earth theur like a nuker then yes it is going to be a bit of a waste in comparrison to air, but if you play a theur like the support class they are then in 1.60 with the mezz resist on pets then the earth theur can do a bit more in rvr.... earth pets are like annoying walking ever interrupting dots stand at the back of the group (now with added 2000 range tm) search for the guys waving their hands in the air coming towards you. Put 2/3 pets on them and then run around like a maniac whilst their tanks try and pummle you into the ground allowing the rest of your group to start the mopping up. Sure this uses alot of power but with 1.60 remember sorceres and necros are your friend (not to remember that speed bot character type whats their name minstrel or something )

I'm sure Air theurs are more uber than Earth and garner more RPs but it doesn't mean that all Earth theurs suck, just as you don't always have to have a high staff/enhance as a friar

Also remember damage adds are also based upon your earth spec so your tanks should do more damage with your buffs than with the 26 + 11 odd Air theurs. A nice little bonus.

Also with 1.60 if your theur is your main CC rather than a Sorc then you've already lost the fight

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by Motowntheta
Actually if you play an earth theur like a nuker then yes it is going to be a bit of a waste in comparrison to air, but if you play a theur like the support class they are then in 1.60 with the mezz resist on pets then the earth theur can do a bit more in rvr.... earth pets are like annoying walking ever interrupting dots stand at the back of the group (now with added 2000 range tm) search for the guys waving their hands in the air coming towards you. Put 2/3 pets on them and then run around like a maniac whilst their tanks try and pummle you into the ground allowing the rest of your group to start the mopping up. Sure this uses alot of power but with 1.60 remember sorceres and necros are your friend (not to remember that speed bot character type whats their name minstrel or something )

I'm sure Air theurs are more uber than Earth and garner more RPs but it doesn't mean that all Earth theurs suck, just as you don't always have to have a high staff/enhance as a friar

Also remember damage adds are also based upon your earth spec so your tanks should do more damage with your buffs than with the 26 + 11 odd Air theurs. A nice little bonus.

Also with 1.60 if your theur is your main CC rather than a Sorc then you've already lost the fight

Totally agree with you: You decide your spec, not someone else! Not sure about EB's being more effective with increasing earth-spec. And if it is, I will be hard to notice I think. Same goes for the haste, an air-theurg will have a more effective haste the way you state it. I think it doesn't matter actually.

1 final tip: Do not spam pets in RvR. You will be dead due to 80000 peeps focussing on you and your group will loose all PBT...

 

[Aule Valar]

even as the support role with pets air is better than earth, yes earth pets do last longer, but the stun on the air pets is significantly more useful, spam air pets at a tank and it'll pretty much lock him down, and the stun will actually stop chanters etc from just hitting moc and obliterating anyone who stands near em
earth pets are like dots, a constant pain, and interuption, however they are a constant cc breaker, and you can regret casting em, the air acts as additional cc
and yes having air therug as your only messer is gimped, but its still very useful to have, you can mes pets etc the sorc missed if they go for him, and having root and mes allows you to cc tanks on the other casters in your group

also whoever was saying they hit for 150 on the average mid with ice, the ice dds const more mana, and cast speed shouldn't be an issue with dex buffs, i hit for 250 on hibs with over 50% spirit resits, and normally around 375 on most mids, for less mana each cast
earth therugs are pure support, air therugs are support and nuker in one

 

[ezrolith]

My continuing thanks to all, i'm trying to determine if i have a hope of gaining a decent realm rank with my earth theurgist, but it seems i've got a useless character so far unfortunatly... Thanks for all your input anyway.

 

[Motowntheta]

My point is that whilst Air Theurs are the swiss army knives of RvR and obviously fun to play and get muchos RPs, that Earth theurs are also viable in RvR .. maybe not as much fun but definatley viable and useful

It's a playstyle thing check my characters out to find the gimp who likes to play support

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

It is not useless at all, it is just not as good in rvr as an air theurg. If you get a good team around your theurg, it will help a lot, just that an air theurg is more versitile, and in that way less gimped
Regards, Glottis

 

[Flimgoblin]

ezro - all you'll need is a good group... with just random pickup groups you'll probably not get to a high RR particularly quick. And earth theurgs seriously need _something_ in the earth line. (ice too, for that matter)

On buffs: at full spec (adjusted by +items) you get a 25% bonus to any baseline buffs - not sure if it goes over level or not... (something to test - easier with stat buffs than damage adds admittedly... but need a low level buffbot with +enhance items casting on a level 50 player to avoid the caps... remove the +enhance see if it changes)

So the average earth theurgist will have a better earth buff than the average air theurgist (and similarly the air theurg's haste will be better) (whether 26+20 will be any worse than 47+20 is unknown at this time well much worse... obviously it'll be 46 versus 50 but that's close enough).

 

[Flimgoblin]

earth theurgists are far from useless...

just air theurgists are the best caster class in albion imho.

 

[Apathy]

As mentioned, 6s PBT is really nice for PvE. I've seen around four full earth theurgists in Avalon City now...getting kinda scary now.

I wouldn't know about RvRing with 6s PBT but I'd say 10s + the utility/dmg of a wind theurg has to be worth more. A chain-stunning pet or two can almost completely immobilise an enemy tank.

If you end up grouping with another theurg, I don't think you can stack the two PBT spells.

Albion RvR sucks in random pick-up groups so your only options are to either not go RvRing or to join an RvR competent guild and let them make the most of your ability.

a.
*

 

[ezrolith]

Thanks, I think the general conclusion is that Earth Theurgists are very nice for PvE.. usually more useful than a cleric but for RvR, crap. It is possible to 'stack' or overrun to be more accurate any pbts, but obviously with 6 second and 10 second half the time you are gunna end up with very bad timing BT. Thanks all for your time and help, better wait for a respec stone

 

[Silenzio]

sorry ezrolith to repay him in ur post but ...

Originally posted by old.Odysseus
a) learn english please

Teach and correct me pls

Originally posted by old.Odysseus

b) do you know what an earth theurgist can do?
1) run pbt
2) cry for power
3) nothing else

Thats why 90% of the theurgists go air. Maybe its selfish as you say, but why in the world should I go and play a boring character? I play the game for fun.
Besides, theurgists have the best nukes albion can deliver. They are equal to those of a fire wizard on average.

what bout answering him ? instead ov useless sarcasm to me?

.................................

is more like : why a tank should put guard on a caster/healer n stik to him?

hey is so boring!!! just rush in the battle as everyone do...

.................................

lot ov different role/tactic to play, each ov em got his use n fun

so ezrolith since u cant respec now... go out enjoy, experiment
n when repec stone will be in, make u choice =)

 

[Karnage]

Yrilin = PBT6 = BORING!

Its naff, I can get about 5 casts in from full power, before I get to a stage where, if I don't stop, PBT is gonna stop soon.

If I can get a respec stone, i'm not sure I would use it tho... It's damn good for PvE raids.

Depends on if I can get my ice wiz up to a respectable level quickly enough

 

[old.Ramas]

Too much selfish therug bye me, is right everyone has to play the way he/she/it like...

but just think that... mid have pbt, hib as lot pbt, alb none...

An argument that, when taken to it's logical conclusion, suggests everyone who doesn't roll a theurg/cleric is being 'selfish'.

Your class isn't defined by divine declaration. You pick it exactly the same way you pick your spec.

Saying "Theurgs should spec earth", or "clerics should not spec smite" for "the good of the realm", is exactly the same as saying "all wizards and armsmen should delete and reroll earth theurgs" and not to do so is "selfish".

 

[acei]

Originally posted by old.Ramas
An argument that, when taken to it's logical conclusion, suggests everyone who doesn't roll a theurg/cleric is being 'selfish'.

Your class isn't defined by divine declaration. You pick it exactly the same way you pick your spec.

Saying "Theurgs should spec earth", or "clerics should not spec smite" for "the good of the realm", is exactly the same as saying "all wizards and armsmen should delete and reroll earth theurgs" and not to do so is "selfish".

/bow

You said it perfect

 

[Flimgoblin]

Who's that crazy theurgist I saw outside Crimthainn a while back (we had a corpse summoner at the time) he ran out, debuffed a hero, rooted him, stuck 4 pets on then went in swinging with his staff

now that's an earth theurgist

 

[Silenzio]

@ old.Ramas


u got me wrong =)


put the attention on "too much" and not on "selfish"

just saying that there rlly few erth spec
n all that refer to the Char not the irl person behind em
so, meant what that char could add to a group not only the death dealer part =)



arent everyone here givin his opinion? so no "divine declaration"
just what id rather to add in my group or play with


ive n armsman... n trust me i rlly rlly wish he could be more usefull
just the guard ability ... than bash enemy before they kill me...

fire wiz is the class i dislike more, yess good damage... good range, what else?

ehhehe

i rlly like my smite clerik =) have buff, good heal, stun/mezz n good damage =) doesn't call it worthless


on mid thers Pox mana regen buff so supp runi cand do...
now we have necro n soon mana buf from sorc

 

[Arwen]

What has all this got to do with the price of fish!?

 

[old.Odysseus]

Originally posted by Silenzio
sorry ezrolith to repay him in ur post but ...


Teach and correct me pls



what bout answering him ? instead ov useless sarcasm to me?

.................................

is more like : why a tank should put guard on a caster/healer n stik to him?

hey is so boring!!! just rush in the battle as everyone do...

.................................

lot ov different role/tactic to play, each ov em got his use n fun

so ezrolith since u cant respec now... go out enjoy, experiment
n when repec stone will be in, make u choice =)

As of a), you may want to be a bit more elaborate in your speech. With your current style of writing, you force everyone to first dechiper your words, thus risking a lot of misunderstandings.

b) Actually I did answer - both the original poster and you. I pointed out, in a quite precise and brief manner, why air theurgists are much better than earth theurgists. Besides, I was not the one to call others 'selfish' for making one choice or another.

 

[Karnage]

Earth theurg = PBT bot tbh

Until they add something worthwhile to the earth line, its just gonna be a gimp spec