PBAOE and Damage shield on Spiritmasters...?

[Marcus75]

I play on the european servers and have my main in Midgard. A few days ago I started some alternate characters on another server and in Albion. The Cabalist seemed like a nice leveling machine when going solo.

It have never occured to me that the Spiritmaster has almost the same tools at his disposal. Here are the questions that has come up:

1. If I spec both Summoning and Spirit then I get the damage shield of the Cabalist and PBAOE, is it a viable tactic to let the spirit tank mobs with damage shield for a few blows then go in and start PBAOEing away?

2. How does the SM play in RvR? They dont have any nukes that seem to be good so one would think they should use the PBAOE when in close to the fighting and on keep defense/offense...

3. How easy is it to be effective with the PBAOE in PvE? Do you always need a dedicated full group for it to be good or can it be enough with 2 tanks, a healer and the SM?

4. How likely are the PBAOE to draw aggro to the SM in a group as the one above?

5. Can you choose wich pet to use as you can with a cabalist?

6. If no, how does the damageshield work when u get the pet with the bladeturn?

7. How does the Spiritmaster damage shield compare with the Cabalists?

Those are the questions for the moment. Thanks in advance!

 

[erl]

1. Yes and no. The spiritmasters damage shield is bugged and doesn't work good at all. Don't use it. To let the pet get aggro and go in and nuke is the most used tactic. Note though that spiritmasters don't get pbaoe until we get 1.52 here in europe.

2. If suppressions specced, sms excel in keep defense and have more of a mezzers/backup chars role in regular rvr. Darkness specced sms have quite a good nuke in the lifetap.

3. Read this guide about pbaoe groups: http://copland.udel.edu/~trevor/camelot/misc/ClassGuides/PBAEParties.txt

4. See above.

5. Yes.

6. See question 1.

7. See question 1.

 

[old.Noita]

OK... well here goes

Well for a start off you cant specc summoning AND Spirit... Summoning gives you baseline summoning spells and Spirit Enhancement gives you speccline. Therefore the more you put in Summoning the more you get out of Spirit enhancements.

If you meant Summoning and SUPPRESSION though the ball game changes.

1. You will get a pet focus damage shield for your pet, however, while this is active you can do nothing but stand and look pretty. Is it wise to get up close and personal with a mob and pbAoE whilst solo? I dont really think so... you would have to let your pet take the mob down by 30+% before it had enough aggro on the critter for you to do this, even then Im not sure you would escape its aggro if you got a crit. Unfortunately it is a fact of SM life that our pets are pretty bad at keeping aggro which happens a lot less when you kill higher level mobs. OK on blue con mobs sure... debuff pull, root, send in pet, focus shield, wait for pet to dmg and then run in all pbAoE guns blazing! Would work great... in some situations. Add a wandering monster or a random spawn and things will get very interesting very quickly.

2. I dont understand where you get the impression that SM dd nukes are no good... Im darkness specced and I hit as hard as a dark specc Runie (tho no bolt, which is limited in RvR anyway), my base damage is 565, add to that I have MoM2 and Aug acuity2 my damage output is very high. I regularly crit at over 1000dmg. This works just as well in RvR although in RvR people will have generally more reisists, and this will affect dmg from pbAoE as well as dd nukes.

3. In PvE with pbAoEdd you would need to do like Hibbies do, and that would be to have a tank take the aggro on each mob in the group you pull. A healer with stun would be great too, and a runie with a fast pbt also good to throw in the mix.

IMO a fantastic pbAoE group would be:

3xTanks
1xHealer
1xRunemaster
3xSuppression Specc SMs

Regardless of the numbers in the pbAoE grp, the trick is for your tank(s) to take and keep the aggro. With one tank on a multiple mob pull, this may not be possible.

2x Tanks, 1x Healer, 1x Supp SM... good combination, tho with 4 in a grp the adds you get will be fewer of course.

4. Very easy if your tanks arent spamming PROVOKE or DRAW OUT etc.

5. No an SM cant chose which pet to use, race and weapon is randomly generated.

6. As far as I know, the pet focus damage shield still works when your pet procs a self blade turn as long as you do absolutely nothing after the DMG shield is cast it will remain in place.

7. Dont know, never played a Cabalist.

P.S. Im possibly the worst person in the SM community to answer about pets btw I have 7 or 8 points TOTAL in my summoning skill. In RvR having a strong pet is a waste of time as almost any player with half a brain will go for the caster first and ignore the pet. A strong pet in my opinion is only any good if you plan to do a lot of soloing and if you put a heap of points in Summoning plan on soloing A LOT as an SM. We have a hard enough time getting xp groups as it is, and if you are Summoning Specced anywhere above the mid 20s you will have very little to offer a group except a ghetto rezz. Your Suppression, i e debuffs and mezzes will be weak, your nukes will be weaker still (depending on where you put your extra specc points).

Go Dark/Summ and you miss out on pbAoE... go Supp/Summ and you miss out on tagretted ae mezz and nukes. Either way, and only in my opinion, Summoning is the weakest of the 3 disciplines available to an SM yet it is the class defining discipline. By weakest I mean that it is only any good in 50% of the game and thats the PvE part. Summoning specc SM in RvR... err have fun

At the end of the day it is of course entirely up to you as to how you specc your SM, but in general I think...

Summoning Specc... you will probably solo most of the way to 50. Yes you will be able to solo red mobs and some low purples... yippeee! So what when your xp is capped at solo xp for high oranges anyway? Besides... with only 7 points in Summoning... I find soloing high oranges to be no problem at all... I guess it depends on whether you want your nukes or your pet to do the work. Despite what Mythic/GOA keep claiming THEY HAVE NOT fixed the pet bug where the pet will hit the next mezzed/rooted mob even if the pet is set to defence. Class specific RA's (pet stuff) are a joke.

Suppression Specc... you will be able to debuff stuff into the ground, with str/dex/quick/3xresist (matter/energy/body) and combination debuffs which stack with them plus excellent mezzes and so on you will be loved in groups. Especially as Supp SMs will get pbAoE.

Darkness Specc... You will be a nuker and nuke hard, sometimes too hard as you WILL take the aggro off higher level tanks who are spamming taunt styles, you will get a very good pbAoE mezz which is fab at keep takes/defence/MGs and so on and after the next patch you will have a targetted AoE mezz in the darkness line. You will also be loved in groups because the group dmg output will be a lot higher and in 1 grp situations you will kill the mob quicker in 2 grp situations your grp will get a larger slice of the xp pie

MmMmMmMMmmmmmmmmmmmm piiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Anyway.. SMs are great to play, loads of fun and we are finally getting our innate uberness enhanced by some long awaited loving from The Powers That Be!

Toodle pip!

 

[erl]

Originally posted by old.Noita
5. No an SM cant chose which pet to use, race and weapon is randomly generated.

Since I answered different here I need to justify myself I think You can't choose race, sex or weapon on the bet, but you can choose which one of the four summon spells you want to use, so you can choose to use only the stun proccing one for example. One question I've never had any answer on though (or rather seen different answers on all over) is if the champion hits harder in melee and stays alive longer than the soldier.

 

[ivan_tribbiani]

Hmmm if PBAoE of an SM is alike to PBAoE of a Wizz then the aggrokeeping is no big deal.
From my experience with wizz PBAoE <i only assume its the same as SM >, PBAoE distributes aggro thus if all the mobs in range are meleed <tanks dont necessarily have to taunt mobs> they wont start attacking the PBAoE caster.

 

[old.Belorfyn]

From 1.51 patch notes (same patch in which we get pbae dd)

- Increased damage and decreased casting time of the pet focus damage shields for the Spiritmaster (Spirit's Revenge line) and Enchanter (Aura of Echoing line) to bring them in line with the Cabalist focus damage shield.

 

[Gekul]

It's worth the time to kill the pet and re-summon to get a weapon the mob is weak to. I'm only in the early 20s with my SM, but I solo fine with 3 in summoning.
Maybe it's viable with respec coming in to spec summoning while leveling, but the pets are only useful for following stealthers in RvR

 

[old.Noita]

Erl: In theory yes you can, there are 4 types of pet, but these are grades up if you like of the basic model. The pet increases in hit points, damage and abilities up through the baseline type (there is no speccline type just buffs for pet in specc).

Therefore a basic type 1 pet, has no weapon crap armour and 1 proc.

type 2 has better armour, a weapon and 2 procs and so on...

Why on earth would you want to choose a pet with crap armour, no weapon and one proc, over a type IV Spirit Champion with dd,bt,lifetap and stun?

And yes, the type IV Champion has more hit points therefore stays alive longer, hits harder, has more weapons in his arsenal (see above) therefore stays alive longer and hopefully because he stays alive longer takes more of the aggro.

Our pets are not like the Enchanter pets, where you can choose a nuker over a healer over a tank... all we have are tank pets.. and surely the higher specc the tank the better?

Apologies if Ive misunderstood your line of reasoning, but it sounds like you are saying that you can choose the pet from types I through IV that is best for the particular job at hand.

Personally Id love to be able to choose from a Skald/Warrior/Healer/Runemaster list of available pets or when we get the ability to ressurrect we could have the person we ressurect as our pet til their next death... now THAT would be a handy pet skill to have And it would fit nicely with the premise that SMs bring back the fallen warriors of Midgard to fight again.

 

[Shaki/Aeis]

Originally posted by old.Noita


2. I dont understand where you get the impression that SM dd nukes are no good... Im darkness specced and I hit as hard as a dark specc Runie

No you don't hit as hard as a darkness specced runy.

Here is how much dmg a runy does:

Lv. Spell Name: Damage Cast Cost Targ.
1 Rune of Dusk 5 2.8 sec. 2P Enemy
3 Greater Rune of Dusk 16 2.8 sec. 3P Enemy
6 Rune of Pitch 31 2.8 sec. 4P Enemy
10 Greater Rune of Pitch 46 2.8 sec. 6P Enemy
13 Rune of Murk 62 2.8 sec. 8P Enemy
17 Greater Rune of Murk 81 2.8 sec. 10P Enemy
23 Rune of Obscurity 108 2.8 sec. 14P Enemy
30 Greater Rune of Obscurity 137 2.8 sec. 19P Enemy
37 Rune of Shadow 173 2.8 sec. 23P Enemy
47 Greater Rune of Shadow 219 2.8 sec. 30P Enemy

Here is how much dmg a SM does:

Lv. Spell Name: Damage Stolen Cast Cost Targ.
1 Dampen Lifeforce 4 70% 2.9 sec. 2P Enemy
3 Muffle Lifeforce 13 70% 2.9 sec. 3P Enemy
6 Smother Lifeforce 26 70% 2.9 sec. 4P Enemy
10 Mute Lifeforce 39 70% 2.9 sec. 6P Enemy
13 Stifle Lifeforce 51 70% 2.9 sec. 8P Enemy
17 Suppress Lifeforce 68 70% 2.9 sec. 10P Enemy
23 Silence Lifeforce 90 70% 2.9 sec. 14P Enemy
30 Hush Lifeforce 114 80% 2.9 sec. 19P Enemy
37 Abolish Lifeforce 144 80% 2.9 sec. 23P Enemy
47 Extinguish Lifeforce 183 90% 2.9 sec. 30P Enemy

As you can see the Runy both cast faster and do more dmg then the SM.
I'm not saying the Spiritmasters DMG is bad but it does NOT hit as hard as a nuke from a Runemaster

 

[Shaki/Aeis]

Originally posted by old.Belorfyn
From 1.51 patch notes (same patch in which we get pbae dd)

- Increased damage and decreased casting time of the pet focus damage shields for the Spiritmaster (Spirit's Revenge line) and Enchanter (Aura of Echoing line) to bring them in line with the Cabalist focus damage shield.

According to the US forums the Spiritmasters Damage shield is still bugged past 1.51

 

[Shaki/Aeis]

Originally posted by old.Noita
Erl: In theory yes you can, there are 4 types of pet, but these are grades up if you like of the basic model. The pet increases in hit points, damage and abilities up through the baseline type (there is no speccline type just buffs for pet in specc).

Therefore a basic type 1 pet, has no weapon crap armour and 1 proc.

type 2 has better armour, a weapon and 2 procs and so on...

Why on earth would you want to choose a pet with crap armour, no weapon and one proc, over a type IV Spirit Champion with dd,bt,lifetap and stun?

And yes, the type IV Champion has more hit points therefore stays alive longer, hits harder, has more weapons in his arsenal (see above) therefore stays alive longer and hopefully because he stays alive longer takes more of the aggro.

Our pets are not like the Enchanter pets, where you can choose a nuker over a healer over a tank... all we have are tank pets.. and surely the higher specc the tank the better?

Well actually it is just the look and the proc that differ from the higher lvl and the lower lvl version pets.
The pet you summons weapon is random so it can be better to use a swordpet againt a mob that is weak to slash.
So the pet CAN'T take more hits weither you summon one with chain or one with cloth.

I have tried to find out if the soldier got any higher chance to proc a stun then the champion but it seems no one nows.

 

[old.Atrophy]

Originally posted by old.Belorfyn
From 1.51 patch notes (same patch in which we get pbae dd)

- Increased damage and decreased casting time of the pet focus damage shields for the Spiritmaster (Spirit's Revenge line) and Enchanter (Aura of Echoing line) to bring them in line with the Cabalist focus damage shield.

Enchanter got this fix but mythic forgot Sm

Also forget the pet holding aggro if solo, my enchanter pet can take a mob down to 30% but if i pbae = I get the aggro instantly if it survives.

Though if im with even 1 tank, if tank hits mob once i can then pbae my arse off and never get hit (unless i get a crit)

 

[old.Noita]

Praise be to selective quoting... I also went on to say that this is in part due to the RA's I have chosen, boosting both my piety and overall spell damage. I was talking about the actual damage I do and not comparing dmg tables between RMs and SMs. Please note the use of the personal pronoun, I did not say dark specc SMs hit as hard as Dark specc RMs.

I was grouped with Darkeen in Malmohus a short time back, the only high Dark specc Runie I know, we were both the same level and both have the same dark specc, he was hitting the same mob for around 10dmg more than me on each cast. Now maths isnt my strong point but I worked that out to around +2-3% more dmg...wanna nit pick about 2-3%? Go ahead

 

[old.Second]

Originally posted by Marcus75

2. How does the SM play in RvR? They dont have any nukes that seem to be good so one would think they should use the PBAOE when in close to the fighting and on keep defense/offense...

just wanted to be funny

answer is:

how the SM play in RvR: Roughly
weapon: whip and handcuffs
Armor: leather or latex

 

[stu]

Once the middies get used to the idea of PBAoE, your Spiritmaster is gonna be a group favourite

When you're in a PBAoE group the nuker doesn't take aggro very often - aggro is split between attackers, so as long as your tanks have hit with a taunt/a decent amount of damage, nuke away.

Whether they're any good in RvR is dependant upon how "opportunistic" you are. You've basically turned into a suicide bomber - your job is to run into an unsuspecting group of Albs/Hibs and spam away. You'll either go down without getting off one spell (if they see you early) or nail the lot of them (if they dont). Useful to have at least one healer waiting in the wings to help you out when the inevitable happens (ie they start beating you down). Obviously being small helps as well - I hope you picked a short dark kobbie

 

[soullessminion]

Yep pbae grps rock but have some major flaws....

A: unless grp knows how pbae grp works, the caster will be chewing dirt fast...

B: MEZZ is the biggest killer of pbae casters in exp grps, ok it may seem good idea to mezz that 1 mob but when mezz breaks mob walks in gets hit by pbae, and kicks the fook out of pbae caster (this has hapened to me several times since joining hib, other ex mids/albs just cant leave the old mezz habit)

C: When mid first gets pbae SM's better exept that there going to die ALOT, until tanks learn there nolonger there to kill mob just piss it of so SM can do the real damage.

On a bright note after much kicking screeming and grass chewing by the SM, the tanks will stop all hiting 1 mob, will each target a mob each drag it to SM (pbae caster dosent goto mobs, tank brings them to him/her) And Sm blows the holy crap out of them...


Ohh also WARNING to all SM's there will always be some tossers who see you solo with your pbae, dont be suprised when these twats work out that when they get far to much aggy, they can ditch it all instantly by running past you as you pbae your own pull. (this has also killed me several times)

 

[listepik]

given 2 facts:

i never played a PBAoE class.
I didnt read everything here, because i just couldnt be fuzzed.

but with regards to pbaoe aggro:

pets get aggro on themselves, yes, but some of it, is linked to the caster, in some weird way.
so if your pet has aggro, and you hit it, you will gain more aggro than you usually would for a hit like that. thats why a tank hitting it once, can keep it off a pbaoe, while a pet taking it to 70% alone, cant


dont ask about the math behind this, though. just observations from playing dual with a Cabby from 1 to 50

 

[Marcus75]

Lots of good answers here. And YES it was summoning and suppression I was aiming for.

The thing is that the damage shield of the cabalist really make soloing easy and effective. So if they gonna fix the SMs DS I think it will be a more viable route to take than it is now.

Also I have read alot of posts of Spiritmaster that use the DS and PBAOEDD and quite easily can solo groups of blues and yellows.

Anyway...I was just curious and I am still content with the characters I got (Skald, Thane, SB and Shaman) so I won't delete anyone just to make a RP-cow. *JOKE*

 

[old.Krypt0r]

Originally posted by ivan_tribbiani
Hmmm if PBAoE of an SM is alike to PBAoE of a Wizz then the aggrokeeping is no big deal.
From my experience with wizz PBAoE <i only assume its the same as SM >, PBAoE distributes aggro thus if all the mobs in range are meleed <tanks dont necessarily have to taunt mobs> they wont start attacking the PBAoE caster.

SM pbaoe is more powerfull...

 

[Flimgoblin]

for some reason the 'no utility' ice wizards get a worse pbaoe than the spiritmasters... not sure how that one figures... oh well Arcon is on the case...

Trains are a right bugger in PBAoE group - as the bloke was saying you can get a lot of chumps training their extra aggro through your pbaoe...

(now if they kept the aggro on it it'd not be so bad...)

also if people are just fleeing a bad pull, running out of a dungeon, right through your pbaoe group - painful...