Patches - Why do translations take so long?

[Falcon]

Ok this is something that's puzzled me for a long while now and I can't work it out so maybe someone else can shed some light on it. It takes a long while for GOA to translate a new patch, now if DAoC is written with any kind of modularity and sensible support for localisation, which, seeing as even companies like OSI can manage it (albeit with pissing off their entire roleplay community, but still) on an ancient code base then I'd imagine Mythic can. So the question is, what takes so long when translating? Didn't a news post say one patch had like 70,000 words to translate or some such? I fail to see where the 70,000 words are in a patch I just can't see that much text content being added with each patch so unless GOA has to re-translate the entire game every time where are these mysterious words needing translation? Not to mention the fact of course that most of the text content if anything will be NPC names perhaps, maybe horse tickets to place and the odd quest every few patches. Sure I can understand things like the spellcrafting patch having loads to translate but a largely balance patch like 1.62?

Anyone shed some light on the subject as to where these massive hidden amounts of text are?

 

[Brannor McThife]

If my memory serves me, it works something like this:

1) Mythic sends over the files to GOA.
2) GOA picks them apart and hands out the various language files to the translators.
3) The translators go about translating the words, and making sure the context and key words are listed properly.
4) The translation is compiled for the test server and the test team + E&E run through all the quests, and all the new texts to make sure they flow correctly (Keywords), are correct language and clear to the original quest (english) and also that they fit into the text frame.
5) Fixes are listed and passed on to the translators.
6) Any game bugs are listed and tested against the original files sent by Mythic (English) to determine if it is a Mythic-bug or a GOA-bug.
7) If a GOA-bug they have to either try find where it got introduced, by probably make a list which they send to Mythic to have the developers debug and fix.
8) Once all translations have been tested in all 3 languages, they probably run it through an automated test for GM commands, creature spawns, etc.
9) They might then send the files to Mythic to be compiled into a release-to-public version.

There is a lot of to-and-fro flow of information between GOA and Mythic during the translation period.

It's not JUST translating. It's making sure those bold words you click on (or say) correctly initiate the next text block and/or update your quest information.

That's just my guess. <shrug>

-G

 

[Demolay]

As I have said before - it's laughable how long they take ... can't even be arsed to take the piss out of them anymore etc etc
70k words and 3 months would be the sack for me if I was localising that game into the ever so taxing 2 European languages (seeing as most PS2 PC and Xbox games are localised casted and recorded edited and delivered in 9 languages in a fraction of the time)
In fact if you want to know how much how long etc mail Babelmedia
and ask em!

 

[inqy]

Brannor's explaination sounds about right to me.

Well tbh I'm glad it happens like this. Due to the time difference in patches, we have the benefit of the american players being our guinea pig testers and they get to suffer nasty bugs which we have fixed by the time we get the patch.

 

[Archeon]

Originally posted by inqy
Brannor's explaination sounds about right to me.

Well tbh I'm glad it happens like this. Due to the time difference in patches, we have the benefit of the american players being our guinea pig testers and they get to suffer nasty bugs which we have fixed by the time we get the patch.

Try explaining that to the FoTM flamers though

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by Archeon
Try explaining that to the FoTM flamers though

Because Xest only ever posts here to bitch and moan.
This is also the Xest who disagrees with 3rd party tools that are against the CoC.

Pretty much, you can rest assured that Xest (Falcon) doesn't approve of anything GOA does...



-G

 

[iziz]

Originally posted by Falcon
Didn't a news post say one patch had like 70,000 words to translate or some such? I fail to see where the 70,000 words are in a patch I just can't see that much text content being added with each patch so unless GOA has to re-translate the entire game every time where are these mysterious words needing translation?

New / changed items
Quests
Commands
Interface changes (new button graphics)
Combat style / ability additions or changes
New / changed NPCs
New / changed mobs
Addition of races to become existing classes
Translation of 'a' to 'an' for mobs that begin with a vowel!
Mocking messages for archers / bolt casters when they miss / fumble (I'm sure those are real and I'm not just going insane imagining them! )

Some of the above may be small translations, but multiply that by the 3 realms and it all adds up over a patch.

There may also be some translation required at this stage to impliment Foundations or ToA.

 

[acei]

Honestly i don't understand how anyone can moan about DAOC patches taking a while to come out, but after Legend of Mir i think i've become immune to anything a company can do.... let me give you a sample of what Legend of Mir has done....

There server went down one day, a Thursday..... it wasn't back up till Tuesday

They haven't had a patch for over a year and have never had a add-on

They have EXTREME cheating and griefing problems and NO technical support.

They just released a tiny patch it was so bugged they had to remove it from the servers.


Now please compare what i have just said about Mir to DAOC's current status.

Server went down for less than one day on a Sunday and yet they still posted news and got it back and working ASAP

We have patches regularly and had SI and will have ToA.

We have minor cheating problems i.e. not the 100's that Mir has, and yes we do have technical support as i've been on it several times and got quick answers.

Minor patches rarely have problems, of course SI had problems but tbh i expected it with how many changes they probably had to make.

In Conclusion:
If you don't like the treatment that GOA give you, then try Legend of Mir you might learn to respect GOA some more

 

[old.SadonTheGrey]

Acei, most of the problems you just listed are what Mythic deal with, and appear to be dealing with splendidly. The problem here is that GOA spend 3 months translating this one patch (or two...1.61/1.62..whatever )

Get yer arses in gear, I have only just finished my french AS (one year of A level) and I can easily go onto a French server, play the game, and translate whole paragraphs easily once I've learned how to say 'quest' 'resurrect' and whatnot

 

[Hargh]

or they could jsut give us the mythic version of the game untranslated one calender month after it gets released in the us.

innit

 

[Lorthania]

Let's do a little maths here to get a clear view of time scales:

Translating one page of normal text takes about one hour. An average page has about 350 words on it, so one single localization would have 200 pages equalling 200 working hours or about 6 weeks (at 36 hours a week, which is a normal working week nowadays).

To that, you need to add about 1/3 that time for proofreading. That's 6+2 = 8 weeks.

Then the translations need to be integrated in the code. Let's say this takes one more week. 8+1 = 9. (one week? yes - it's not just a matter of copy 'n paste, you know )

The translated code then needs to be tested. A week of intense testing follows. 9+1 = 10.

Then there's another week of corrections and regression testing (10+1 = 11) plus one more week to finalize the code and get the systems ready for updating the server. 11+1 = 12 or exactly three months.

I assume the translations are done by more people simultaneously, but in that case, you would need someone to keep an eye on consistency of the translations, which takes up a fair amount of time too.

As for DAoC, the type of content does not make it any easier - expressions like 'silver drakeling' and 'Battleground Medallion' are not things you find in the average dictionary, so translators will be busy creating DAoC specific lookup databases as well.

If you have never done this type of work (which I have, by the way), you simply cannot judge the amount of time it takes to do it.
Translating is not just changing words from one language to another!

Kind regards,

Lorth

 

[Madonion Slicer]

My Character Otrotord does not mind this patch taking a while, in facted i dont mind if it never comes

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by Hargh
or they could jsut give us the mythic version of the game untranslated one calender month after it gets released in the us.

innit

No, they can't. They have this legal thing called a Contract with Mythic. They have to host all 3 languages, simultaneous. But hey, don't let me stop you thinking about "MEMEMEMEMEMEMEME"...

You want the US patch ASAP? Go play there.

-G

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by old.SadonTheGrey
Acei, most of the problems you just listed are what Mythic deal with, and appear to be dealing with splendidly. The problem here is that GOA spend 3 months translating this one patch (or two...1.61/1.62..whatever )

Get yer arses in gear, I have only just finished my french AS (one year of A level) and I can easily go onto a French server, play the game, and translate whole paragraphs easily once I've learned how to say 'quest' 'resurrect' and whatnot

sadon - read half the whines about CSRs etc. the servers going down... 3 patches after the main release before houses were working correctly. etc. etc.

GOA are doing pretty well I'm not slamming Mythic here btw they do a good job too, just noone's perfect.


I can imagine the quests now...
"Erm, Go something something something Wolf! something erm return, me hides, something something. Yeah."

 

[Falcon]

Mmm, so much hostility over a question as to what causes the patching process to take so long. I still can't understand is the amount of text GOA claimed on their news page though, 70k words is a hell of alot, would it include stuff such as comments in script files perhaps?

Because Xest only ever posts here to bitch and moan.

Yes because I've never once posted a joke or a long article on ranger bow damage or advice from my view on how to spec a char.

This is also the Xest who disagrees with 3rd party tools that are against the CoC.

Hmm? Depends on the tool really, if it's radar ban the fuckers outright but the fact is other such games like UO that had a 3rd party tools program allowed fans to develop tools like UO Assist and UO Automap which made the game much more fun. Do you have a problem with my opinion on 3rd party tools or something?

Pretty much, you can rest assured that Xest (Falcon) doesn't approve of anything GOA does...

Actually I defended them when someone slagged their anti-cheat policies off mentioning an incident where they had in fact banned a known and proven cheater, only they hadn't, so they let themselves down there. GOA seal their own fate they've got plenty of chance to please people but when they do screw up like with the enabling of SI obviously needing more server power (ever heard of leasing?) to handle the load and the whole XML thing what kind of opinion do you think people will make of them over those incidents? At the same time the work Kemor does and the support I've received from Right Now is top notch, so just because I disagree on something in the past where they've screwed up I automatically disagree with everything they do do I? Strange perception of the world you have there. This post is more a question of how their patching process works and what it is that takes the time.

Don't worry Brannor I'm sure you'll get over your manic depressive state soon and get laid. Oh hang on, no you wont, cos you're ugly irl.

 

[Brannor McThife]

<starts to reel in the fishing line, noticing he caught a particularly good fish with that flame.>



Aww Xest. Getting all personal again.

Anyway, here's the thread I was referring to.

Dark Tools of Camelot

I'm always amazed at how aggro you went, even after all those times I helped you level your buffbot.

-G

 

[Nightchill]

Originally posted by Flimgoblin
I can imagine the quests now...
"Erm, Go something something something Wolf! something erm return, me hides, something something. Yeah."

they'll soon realise no one reads them and just make quests with
[click me]
[and here]
[now here]
[and finally here]

 

[Falcon]

I just don't like people who masquerade as honest players through E&E but use every opportunity to exploit a bug that they can tbh.

You've been hacked, you've been run out of all 3 realms and you've been turned down by every female/female char who was actually male (like my buffbot which you were so eager to help level, heh!), says it all IMO.

Got a job yet?

 

[Falcon]

Nightchill should be employed by Mythic cos he knows what we really want

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by Falcon
I just don't like people who masquerade as honest players through E&E but use every opportunity to exploit a bug that they can tbh.

Explain. I've never lied to anyone in DAoC. I'd say I'm probably one of the more upright citizens of DAoC...but that's hard to see when you're sliding around on your belly in the dirt.

Originally posted by Falcon
You've been hacked...

Your point being?

Originally posted by Falcon
...you've been run out of all 3 realms...

Want to suck your thumb harder for more lies?

Originally posted by Falcon
...and you've been turned down by every female/female char who was actually male (like my buffbot which you were so eager to help level, heh!)...

Turned down? How so? And I knew who your buffbot was from day one. I guess you must be talking about Xenorita then...who I just happened to talk to. Guess you are still sore about her ditching you? Jealousy dear Xest...I guess that children's rhyme is true...it does indeed make you nasty. Rest assured, although I may well have flirted with her, you may check with those in Midgard, and those in Albion, that I never did so with anyone there. Lucradan was the exception.

And pray tell dearest Xest, how would you have me party with people? Stand in abject silence and ignore everyone? Or is it just that you are lashing out as the pain still runs deep within your own veins?

Originally posted by Falcon
...says it all IMO.

Indeed it does. It tells me a lot about your character as a human being to come up with many a lie. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't you who whisperred bittersweet lies into Leah's ear.

Originally posted by Falcon
Got a job yet?

And here, dear Xest. You show who trully is the better man. For unlike you, I am not one to grasp a wound of a dying man and press it hard to see if he still lives.

May you oneday experience the pain you so readily, so easily, and so carelessly extol on others.

-G

 

[SilverHood]

You're getting soft brannor... no in your post

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by SilverHood
You're getting soft brannor... no in your post

:flames: are for when I'm joking...
Sometimes, people cross the line...

-G

 

[Cadire]

... I can see this turning into a real love-fest, so let's nip it in the bud.




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