Opinions

[chatting]

Hello,
Could a few people try out this site and tell me what you think.

Cheers

http://www.chat3k.com

 

[Summo]

Which network does it run on, fella? Most of us are Quakenet peeps and I doubt we'd often venture elsewhere.

Can I connect to a different IRC network on it?

 

[Mellow-]

Those java IRC things never work for me anyway

 

[L_Plates]

Spam!!!!

PIMP!!!!

oh ok ill try .. nope quakenet 2

 

[Shocko]

AAhh, Java!!!

DIE DIE DIE!!11

 

[old.Jas]

Java sucks ass

 

[b-man]

Its ok, but most people just hate Java, and it hardly works!

:sleeping:

 

[b-man]

you could do much better.

 

[Shocko]

My 3 main webdesign no-nos:
1) Making links open in a new window
Ahhhh"!! Don't do this, it's ghey! If i want to have a new window(tab) for a page, i will middle click on the link. If i wish to revisit your crappy site, i will use the back button!
Never make links open in a new window!¬!!! Aaarheagh!

2) Using Java applets
NOOO!!!!! Java has 2 uses, one is for funny webgames, and the other is for web-irc, useful for emergancy situations. Java should never be used for banners, scrolling mathingys, or menus! There is no need for java in your website!!11 If you wish to make a link image change when my mouse hovers over it, use fucking javascript! That's what it's there for!!1!!
I HatE java, it's soo p00¬!!!!

3) Frames
!!!!! Never use frames, tehy're just shite! If i want to access your navigation menu, when half way down your page, i will scroll up, i do not need it on my screen at all times!! Further more, i do not want upto a 3rd of my screen taken up by some totally ghey image, that you felt the need to make in photoshop! It may be a nice image, but i don't want to look at it!!! At all!!!!
No fucking frames!!!

*ahem* Just had to get that off my chest

 

[Nighty-]

Java bad, Java bad

 

[granny]

Originally posted by Shocko
My 3 main webdesign no-nos:
1) Making links open in a new window
Ahhhh"!! Don't do this, it's ghey! If i want to have a new window(tab) for a page, i will middle click on the link. If i wish to revisit your crappy site, i will use the back button!
Never make links open in a new window!¬!!! Aaarheagh!

Shocko is SO right here it hurts. Please, BW webby people, READ THIS, links opening in new window is such a poor design decision, please stop it, please, please.

Please!

 

[wolfeeh]

am i...

the only person who likes frames?

buy bigger monitors u cheap ass bastards.... frames are handy.

 

[Summo]

I like the way BW stuff opens in a new window. If someone posts a link I like the fact that I can open it and continue trolling the forum.

These 'web design golden rules' have always struck me as elitist shite designed to appeal to other web designers, rather than the people the sites are actually designed for.

 

[Wilier]

Being the elite IT guru that Im not, I dont give a fudge about java (cos I dont know what it is, perhaps if I did, then I may have an opinion)

Ive just spent 5 hrs fiddling around with my webeh (which Im doing at the same time as learning HTML ) and Ive just figured out how to do frames. So I like frames.

 

[xenon2000]

Originally posted by Summo
I like the way BW stuff opens in a new window. If someone posts a link I like the fact that I can open it and continue trolling the forum.

These 'web design golden rules' have always struck me as elitist shite designed to appeal to other web designers, rather than the people the sites are actually designed for.

Agreed and true.

On the main subject of the thread, did you take the site down? It ain't working :/

 

[Shocko]

They're just 3 things that really piss me off.

I just disabled links opening in new windows with Mozilla, however now stuff like the smiley window doesn't work, which is why i've normally just lumped it...

If i wish to keep the forum window open, i just open a new tab, by middle clicking on teh link. I like it to be upto me to decide on whether a paticular link opens in a new window/tab or not.

 

[Kippa.]

BTW, thats VB not BW that makes links open in a new window................

 

[PR.]

Whats the problem with links opening new windows, ffs

Is it just me or is it that 90% of the people who complain about these 'problems' use the browsers that represent ~10% of the market?

I tried navigating to the BW webbie on my iPAQs PIE and I couldn't get anywhere, now thats a real problem

 

[Shocko]

Originally posted by PR.
Is it just me or is it that 90% of the people who complain about these 'problems' use the browsers that represent ~10% of the market?

Maybe it's because the people intelligant enough to understand what makes good webdesign, are the ones intelligant enough to see past usage figures for browsers?

I know that the forum links is part of the forum, but the BW News isn't vB is it?

PR, i thought i clearly explained, why i don't like links opening in a new window. Firstly, i don't like having lots of windows open. There's no option in Mozilla, to make links that normally open in new windows, open in tabs instead. I never use more than one window, allways tabs, so if i know a link will open in a new window, i middle click it.

Slashdot is one of the few "big" news sites that doesn't make links open in a new window. When i browse slashdot, i normally read all the new storys, then decide what links i want to read - If there's only one link i'm interested in, i just open it in the existing window, if there's more than one, i use new tabs. It's simply a case, of choice.

 

[Summo]

News articles on a site seems to me to be a perfect example of when opening links in a new window should be used. A visitor is likely to want to read the news, open a link for more information, then continue reading the news.

'orses for Courses, innit? Swings and raandabaats.

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

Originally posted by Shocko

Maybe it's because the people intelligant enough to understand what makes good webdesign, are the ones intelligant enough to see past usage figures for browsers?

You keep telling yourself that using a package used by very few other users makes you more intelligent, hell, maybe you'll wake up tomorrow and it'll be correct, and you'll be an enlightened forum poster who's witty anecdotes raise a smile whilst being revered by all as an intellectual giant amongst us stupid IE users.

 

[caLLous]

Originally posted by Summo
I like the way BW stuff opens in a new window. If someone posts a link I like the fact that I can open it and continue trolling the forum.

These 'web design golden rules' have always struck me as elitist shite designed to appeal to other web designers, rather than the people the sites are actually designed for.

Very true. Links opening in new windows is invaluable. I don't care how many IE windows are open, as long as they are all displaying something I want to see. Also, it allows you to come back to something. If you don't want to or have time to read an article, for example, you can open it in a new window, minimise the window, continue browsing, and return to that article later on. Fuck off with saving links bs, this is a much easier way. And if you want to "wipe the slate clean", then just open task manager and close iexplore.exe.

 

[granny]

Yes opening links in new windows can be useful and at times I use it, but like Shocko says I prefer to have the CHOICE of when to do it.

If a link is set to open in the same window then to view it in a new window all you have to do is shift-click it. One extra button.

On the other hand if it's the other way round and the link is set to open in a new window and I want to view it in the same window I have to right-click, copy, paste into browser address bow, hit enter. That's 6 extra buttons/mouse-clicks in order to get the browsing method I want.

Result? I don't read BW news. The internet is a big place, if a website doesn't embody good usability then plenty of people will just go elsewhere.

Originally posted by PR.
Is it just me or is it that 90% of the people who complain about these 'problems' use the browsers that represent ~10% of the market?

Nothing to do with browser choice - I use IE6, hardly an unpopular browser. It's to do with usability.

Originally posted by Summo
These 'web design golden rules' have always struck me as elitist shite designed to appeal to other web designers, rather than the people the sites are actually designed for.

Nope, usability is based on actual use of websites by actual people, it's based on extensive testing and analysis of exactly what makes people use some sites more than others. It's based on the principal that what you want is for as many people as possible to use your site rather than your competition's site and that you want them to stay within your site as long as possible.

What a lot of people do is assume that their personal preferences for navigating the web are the same as everyone else's which is what leads to poor design decisions whereas in actual fact what you want to do is design your website in such a way that as many different ways of navigating as possible are made as easy as possible - and forcing links to open new windows is directly counter to that.

 

[granny]

Originally posted by caLLous
Also, it allows you to come back to something. If you don't want to or have time to read an article, for example, you can open it in a new window, minimise the window, continue browsing, and return to that article later on.

That works for you, yes, but if you actually observe a large number of people using websites (which is exactly what usability experts have done over long periods of time) then you'll find that what tends to happen for a lot of people is this:

1) Start reading BW news (for example).
2) See link to interesting story elsewhere.
3) Click link, opens in new window.
4) Close BW window because they don't like having multiple IE windows open.
5) Finish reading interesting link.
6) Now have no easy way of getting directly back to BW news since they closed the window, go elsewhere and do something else.

Result? That person spent less time on BW page.


Now if the link opened in same window it goes like this:

1) Start reading BW news (for example).
2) See link to interesting story elsewhere.
3) Click link, BW page replaced in same window by interesting article elsewhere.
4) Finish reading interesting link.
6) Press back button.
7) Carry on reading BW news from exactly where they left off.

Result? That person is still on BW site and may stay there longer, see more content on BW webby, use BW webby more in future and may even spend enough time there to think "hey this is a cool site, maybe I'll sign up to their P2P service" etc.


By the way I don't just think that BW's website suffers from poor usability - every single UK GSP has an appalling website. GamesDomain's (for example) is utterly horrific and makes BW's nightmare of a site actually seem uncluttered and easy to navigate, and that's saying a lot

 

[old.Explosive23]

Originally posted by old.Jas
Java sucks ass

Lies .

 

[Munkey-]

but IE and netscape sometimes b0rks and you cant go back pages as I have discovered to my dismay after clicking a link. opening new window is much better for BW

 

[Summo]

Originally posted by granny


That works for you, yes, but if you actually observe a large number of people using websites (which is exactly what usability experts have done over long periods of time) then you'll find that what tends to happen for a lot of people is this:

1) Start reading BW news (for example).
2) See link to interesting story elsewhere.
3) Click link, opens in new window.
4) Close BW window because they don't like having multiple IE windows open.
5) Finish reading interesting link.
6) Now have no easy way of getting directly back to BW news since they closed the window, go elsewhere and do something else.

Result? That person spent less time on BW page.


Now if the link opened in same window it goes like this:

1) Start reading BW news (for example).
2) See link to interesting story elsewhere.
3) Click link, BW page replaced in same window by interesting article elsewhere.
4) Finish reading interesting link.
6) Press back button.
7) Carry on reading BW news from exactly where they left off.

Result? That person is still on BW site and may stay there longer, see more content on BW webby, use BW webby more in future and may even spend enough time there to think "hey this is a cool site, maybe I'll sign up to their P2P service" etc.


By the way I don't just think that BW's website suffers from poor usability - every single UK GSP has an appalling website. GamesDomain's (for example) is utterly horrific and makes BW's nightmare of a site actually seem uncluttered and easy to navigate, and that's saying a lot

These 'studies' are exactly what pisses me off. Here's one I just made up which follows the same convincing logic but is based on what I do. I am Mister Joe Browser.

1) Start reading BW news (for example).
2) See link to interesting story elsewhere.
3) Click link, opens in new window.
4) New window takes focus and pushes BW to background. I'm still on the BW site, just reading the interesting link.
5) Finish reading interesting link.
6) Close window. Look! There's BW again! I'd temporarily forgotten about that!
7) Continue reading BW news (for example).

That said, I can't disagree about giving people the choice. I SHIFT+CLICK most links because I don't want to lose the page I was originally viewing. It's nice, however, knowing that when viewing BW (the site I visit most) I don't have to bother. Its perversely liberating in a tiny, tiny way knowing that I don't have to hold shift when clicking BW links.

Nobody studied my web-browsing habits (thank God).

 

[Wilier]

they probly did, and have reported you to the police. You'll get got in the next raids.

 

[granny]

Originally posted by Summo
These 'studies' are exactly what pisses me off. Here's one I just made up which follows the same convincing logic but is based on what I do. I am Mister Joe Browser.

1) Start reading BW news (for example).
2) See link to interesting story elsewhere.
3) Click link, opens in new window.
4) New window takes focus and pushes BW to background. I'm still on the BW site, just reading the interesting link.
5) Finish reading interesting link.
6) Close window. Look! There's BW again! I'd temporarily forgotten about that!
7) Continue reading BW news (for example).

That said, I can't disagree about giving people the choice. I SHIFT+CLICK most links because I don't want to lose the page I was originally viewing. It's nice, however, knowing that when viewing BW (the site I visit most) I don't have to bother. Its perversely liberating in a tiny, tiny way knowing that I don't have to hold shift when clicking BW links.

Nobody studied my web-browsing habits (thank God).

You confused my example with a study - there have been plenty of actual STUDIES undertaken on which the ideas I'm talking about have been examined in depth - ie. actually observe 100's of people, chosen at random (standard stratified sample stuff) interacting with websites of different designs and recording what they do (down to the individual mouse click and timing people's responses, navigations etc down to 1/10ths of a second).

Usability is a science and is treated as such. I gave a single example, plucked out of my head, that's not a study now is it?

And you hit upon the most important part of this issue - giving people choice which you effectively remove by forcing links to open in a new browser window. You said yourself that you shift-click links anyway so providing people with a choice would have an absolutely minimal effect on your particular browsing habits would it?

 

[granny]

Originally posted by Summo
Its perversely liberating in a tiny, tiny way knowing that I don't have to hold shift when clicking BW links.

That's interesting to point out to - you say it makes a "tiny tiny" difference having the links on the BW site open in a new window. In contrast I find it intensely irritating, far more than "tiny tiny" implies, in fact I find it irritating to the point where I do not read BW news and I do not use the BW website other than for the forums.

That's the range of things that need to be considered when designing a website - differences that are very minor to some people are enough to stop other people using the website at all. Like I said, the internet is a big place, a competitor's website is always only 1 click away, why do anything to encourage people to make that click?