Opinions Wanted For Idea To Improve Arrow Switching

[Keri]

I don't know if anyone has suggested this idea to Mythic yet, and before you rush to flame me for posting this here, I know Mythic does not read this forum, or respond to suggestions. I merely want to get intelligent opinions before sending the idea to Mythic.

As all arrow users know, switching arrows is a pain. If you buy expensive arrows, you really don't want to fire off several of the most expensive ones. Initially using one, followed by a few shorter range ones as the monster gets closer, is the ideal, but the switching takes time. As I see it, when you buy arrows, what you are buying is a quiver full of arrows that cannot be separated. How often would a real bowhunter fire off one arrow, take the quiver off, put a different quiver on, and then fire a couple of arrows from the second quiver? Never.

My suggestion? Change it so that you can break down a quiver of arrows, the same way that you can break down coins in trading. Allow arrow users to have a single expensive (long range, hard hitting, improved accuracy) arrow in the top slot, with a quiver full of less expensive (shorter range + whatever other stats) in the second slot.

What do other arrow users from all realms think of this suggestion? Would it work? Do you think it's "cheating"?

 

[SFXman]

Well, it most certainly would not be cheating... but as I can see from your signature you have a L40 bard and a 2x ranger... surely your L40 bard can EASILY support the ranger so that he can use the best arrows all the time.
My cousin, L50 sorc, supports his scout and my scout financially. We both use the best arrows and always get the best player crafted equipment (unless some nice magicals are available).
In the beginning though, if you do not have a high-level char or friend to support your levelling, then a quiver change system would be quite superb.

 

[Keri]

Aaaaahhh SFXman .. if I listed all my characters in my sig, you would flame me for having too large a sig. My ranger actually is a fletcher, but can't make the best arrows yet, and as we all know, crafting requires cash. I also have a low level heroine, who is a weaponsmith ... so she also drains my bard's funds. Said bard hasn't actually made much at all in the way of cash for several weeks, as she is mostly an RvR bard now, groups being difficult to find. Also, I was not thinking of this idea from a purely personal, selfish point of view, but as an idea that would benefit all arrow users. Thanks for your opinion though .. appreciated and duly noted.

 

[Zagantia]

An excellent suggestion Keri I started my little Luri Ranger last week and have been asking people since if there is an easier to switch arrows and have yet to find one

 

[SFXman]

Would it not be possible to slow down on the crafting side, use the spare money for the better arrows so no switching is needed and then level to a point where you can well support your arrows by yourself and the money from your alts would then be used for crafting?

 

[Alrindel]

Well, my ranger has been doing this all the way up to level 37 and I don't think it's really a problem. At lower levels I had as many as four different types of arrows at different costs and characteristics, but now when I stock up on arrows I buy about 240 flight footed broadhead and 240 footed broadhead (same accuracy and damage as FFB but less range which I don't need because after pulling with FFB the mob is now barrelling towards me howling with rage). Given that the arrows that are the highest in your inventory are the ones you will draw from, all you need to do is swap your FFB quiver with your FB quiver after the first or second shot. So hunting these days looks like this:

Arrows are always in my first inventory pouch, one quiver of FFB at the top and then FB in positions 2-6 or so, then more FFB at the bottom.

Get maximum range on the mob and line up critical shot with auto release and reload. *TWANG*

Draw a second FFB arrow and double click for auto release and reload. Now while that second arrow is drawn but before it fires, I have 3-4 seconds to swap the arrows in inventory slots 1 and 2 and put the footed broadhead arrows in the higher position. *TWANG*

Every successive arrow from now on will be from the quiver of footed broadhead. When the mob is dead, swap the FFB arrows back into first place.

So sure, I've had a lot of practice at it leveling up but it really isn't very hard to do; the usual draw time of 3-4 seconds gives you plenty of time to swap arrows around since it's only two mouse clicks. In RvR of course you should only be using FFB anyways, except if you're shooting at keep doors.

As for the "realism" part, It makes perfect sense to me that my ranger has two quivers slung on her back, and that she draws from either the long range or the short range arrows depending on the quarry's range.

ps. once you hit around level 30 it's a non-issue because the mobs drop enough loot to more than pay for top grade arrows and then some. The only reason I keep doing this at all is because I need to save every copper I can for other equipment, with whatever is left over going to weaponcrafting.

pps. can my ranger group with your bard please?

 

[Keri]

SFXman .. you are totally missing the point. I'm not asking for opinions on how much cash my ranger should beg steal or borrow in order to be able to afford to waste arrows. What I am asking for opinions on, is an idea to improve arrow switching ... an idea which makes the whole concept of using different arrows more "realistic". As an example, would you really use an elephant rifle to kill a rabbit? I think not. Same as it's a waste to use those X-Long Range, X-Heavy Damage, Improved Accuracy arrows, for anything but the first shot.

You already said it's a superb idea, can we just leave it at that?

 

[SFXman]

If you consider the realism... it is extremely realistic... as was pointed out, why could an archer possibly NOT have two quivers on their back.
Keri, my point is that since this thing will most likely take a century to implement (considering that first of all they have to hear about this idea, which wont work here), I am just giving an opinion about what to do in the meanwhile.

 

[old.cerebus]

My 2 cents.......

I don't see why rangers etc just shouldn't be able to put the actual arrows icon in their quick bar and instead of clicking on the bow icon to fire, just click on whatever type of arrow you want to fire.

 

[Keri]

Excellent arrow-switching guide Alrindel, and appreciated.

Re: your pps, message Keri or Kheri any time, Keri (my bard) would love to group with you (do you also find it hard to find a group?). Maybe we could get a nightshade or two, as they also seem to have a hard time.

 

[Alrindel]

I don't see why rangers etc just shouldn't be able to put the actual arrows icon in their quick bar and instead of clicking on the bow icon to fire, just click on whatever type of arrow you want to fire.

Speaking personally, even if that was possible, I wouldn't do it. My quickbar 1 which is the most important one for regular combat (quickbar 3 has all the melee styles I use) already has two buttons for archery - regular shot and critical shot - and I need all the others for other stuff. If I had to have 4 buttons or more - say Critical-shot-with-FFB, Critical-shot-with-FB, Regular-shot-with-FFB and Regular-shot-with-FB - I'd be pulling my hair out pretty quickly. And using the wrong arrows a lot.

 

[old.cerebus]

Well to be honest you would only have one extra icon on your quickbar.

You'd still have the critical shot, but instead of the bow icon you'd get two icons, one cheap arrows icon and one expensive arrows icon.

Not of much concern to people over say level 35, but younger players need to be able to pull from a distance with a better arrow and then plunk away with cheap ones until it gets within stabbing distance.

 

[SFXman]

About the quickbar thing... well... I for one would go nuts at making them all over again since the first is my usual sprint, crit, norm, stealth, assist, face, thruster, shield setup... no space there... second has 8 thrusting moves... third has shield stuff and 4th is for RvR purposes only. I would need a fifth quickbar and that would drive me insane

 

[Melodic]

pffft my lvl 23 ranger has just about bankrupted my lvl 40 druid because of using the best arrows all the time. From 300gp my druid now has 30gp.

 

[SFXman]

I guess us Albions our lucky with the ability (good spots) to make 100s of g's in a day after L40.
See... then you can spend a couple of days just earning money and then level your archer.

 

[Elvewen]

I remember reading a report from the Scout leader on the mythic development team sugesting that a quiver system was introduced.

There would be 4 slots for arrows and just selecting one would make that the active selection.

I dont know if they are working on this but it would be an excelent idea providing the slots can take packs of 40.

 

[SFXman]

Providing that their control is separate from the quickbar.

 

[Tigerius]

Three suggestions here from what I see

Sorting arrows in order, arrow by arrow, is a bit more micromanagement than most would bother with and more than the game engine so far bothers with. Would be nice but a bit over the top.

Dragging arrow stacks to hotbar works and is how this game solves all other switching issues, however these are items in your inventory not equipped items and they are also ones running out. Does your icon just disappear then like it does if you sell a weapon you have hotbared? This system works but needs some more things to be ideal.

Having a number of quiver slots on your char to equip with arrow stacks would seem like the best idea, then combine with above idea or a "switch quiver slot" button / macro.

Right now I realise this maybe isn't a huge issue for the many rich archer alts and for people reaching 35+, but throw around the idea of magical arrows like there SHOULD be and all of a sudden arrow switching gets alot more interesting.

In Albion alteast there are 2 mobs dropping arrows, and the dropped are in 1 case dead standard POOR shop arrows, and in the other case good arrows but just renamed from the shop ones. I'd personally love the idea of mobs dropping magic arrows, fire, acid, ice.. the standard AD&D ones Either with a chance to proc or always having an additional portion elemental damage.

 

[Olgark]

I asked this question on the Critical Shot forum last month and the other archers in DAoC said that you have the long range best arrows high in the packs, with a lower range lesser arrows in a stack below it. Now pick up the lesser arrows on the cursor then after you fire the good arrow drop the lesser ones above the good ones. Then you shoot with the other stack.

I have not done this as it seems to be a lot of mucking about and would rather use the best arrows I can make. And now with a fletching skill of 527 I can make all the arrows in game so far.

Hope this helps .

 

[Alrindel]

Sorting arrows in order, arrow by arrow, is a bit more micromanagement than most would bother with and more than the game engine so far bothers with. Would be nice but a bit over the top.

I still don't quite understand this. Of the things that have been proposed (quivers on quickbar, some sort of switchable quiver slot) I haven't seen anything that would be any easier than simply swapping arrows in your inventory screen which the game engine allows you to do whenever you like. But assuming you are carrying two kinds of arrows, in any average fight you have to switch arrows exactly once when the mob moves into range (and then put them back when you're done) and you have plenty of time to do it between arrow draws. Hardly the horrific system of micromanagement it could be (open quiver, click on an arrow, drag it to the bow, click on a "nock arrow button"...) If you had a quiver slot you'd still have to change arrows at the right time, whether it's a mouse click or a quickbar button to me it works out to be about the same thing.

Yes, for some people who are playing archers this is more complicated than they want it to be. I suppose Mythic could come up with a quiver system that let you put different arrows in different slots and automatically drew the optimal arrow in any given situation. But then where do you stop? Can I have a system that automatically picks out yellow-blue targets from a group of enemies? How about an automatic /face when i start firing at my quarry. A macro that would run to the dropped loot, pick it all up and run back to the start point would be nice, especially when harvesting irewoods for money.

Carrying the right arrow for the right occasion and knowing how to switch them around is currently implemented in the game engine and is one of the skills that makes a player better than average. (It's not just about saving money, it's often a good idea to pull with a long range light damage arrow to make it easier for tanks to get aggro off you, for example). To me it's on par with having two sets of armour, one optimized for RvR and one for PvE. Or having weapons of crush, blade and pierce handy and knowing when to use which for maximum effect. Or any one of a hundred other tips and tricks we learn that will hopefully give us a slight edge.

Sorry, I've gone on a bit. Anyways, archers, if you haven't tried carrying multiple arrow types until now, give it a try. I really think you will find that it isn't that hard once you get the hang of it, and it can save you lot of money at low levels as well as make a difference fighting in groups.

 

[SFXman]

For us scouts at least, if a yellow con mob gets into melee when soloing, your survival is complicated enough to reach with the various stun moves+normal shot combos etc.
At least after the 30's it has been so.
This taken into account I really don't feel like an arrow switching system although it seems that some of you are very economical in the use of arrows and need this

 

[Keri]

A big thank you to everyone for their contributions to this thread. There are some very useful suggestions here, and I appreciate them all. It's also nice to see a whole thread without a single flame

Being a ranger, I mostly solo (you all know how hard it is for rangers to find groups), so I have not had many opportunities to learn from other players all the tips and tricks suggested here.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Alrindel]

Being a ranger, I mostly solo (you all know how hard it is for rangers to find groups), so I have not had many opportunities to learn from other players all the tips and tricks suggested here.

If only someone would start a guild dedicated to rogue classes so new rangers and nightshades would have an unmatched source of experience, expertise and high quality equipment to help them along the path...

 

[Keri]

I couldn't agree more Alrindel.


Wanna snowball fight?

 

[Alrindel]

Well, you should have your ranger join Silent Death then. It would be only fair; Clan Bearhawk already poached one of our high level rangers.

 

[Keri]

hehe .. sounds like a reasonable trade. The only problem would be that I tend to switch to Keri whenever the alliance call to RvR goes out, and as Kheri solos most of the time, I don't upset any groups when I suddenly log off to switch characters.

<hands you a freshly cooked beaver tail> Remember those?

 

[Alrindel]

My stepbrother worked one summer at the original beaver tail stand in the byward market. And, if I recall correctly, nearly spent the following autumn in jail when he got caught stealing money out of the till...

 

[SFXman]

Keri, you are strange

Originally posted by Keri
Wanna snowball fight?

Originally posted by Keri
<hands you a freshly cooked beaver tail> Remember those?