Online players, are they playing?

[Guest]

My assumptions, my generalisations.

If you went by time/money spent, then I would be a serious player too, but that wasn't the yardstick I was using. I see serious players as those who are really into their thing, clanned up to the eyeballs and maybe a competitor in one of the leagues. Basically they eat, sleep, live whatever they're playing.

It's difficult to talk about groups without generalising, that's why I said it's how I see them. There are of course exceptions.

There are lots of great players out there, and I afford them all due respect, but they are outnumbered by the hordes of 'users'.

If you're not a user, then more power to you.

Oh, and you're right. UT does seem to attract a different type of player, though it still has it's fair share of whiners. QuakeX and Half-Life seems to be teeming with foul-mouthed little oiks, who couldn't tell the difference between teamplay and tampax (How's THAT for a generalisation?).

Editing was to add a missing sentence!


[This message has been edited by SoWat (edited 18 February 2000).]

 

[Guest]

Somebody once wrote...

"If you are a programmer, and you write an innovative app, Microsoft will take it away from you".

What that means, basically, is that Microsoft cannot stand being beaten, and they'll do anything they can to destroy competitors.

In much the same way, a large number of online game players cannot stand being beaten, and they will do anything they can to ensure they are not.

Take, for example, First Person Shooters (Quake, Half-Life, etc). These games are played by three kinds of people: Those who play purely for fun, those who play 'seriously', and those who cheat. All three categories overlap somewhat.

Ok, these categories are how *I* divide up the playing population, but you get the idea.

Now let's look at those categories more closely:

Fun Players.
I'm in this group. I have no desire to have [ImInAClan]SoWat! as my name. I just like to get on (some) public servers and have a good time. I'm not interested in performance enhancing binds, or any other kind of game aid. I just like to PLAY. It's only a game as far as I'm concerned. Sure I get annoyed sometimes, but it's just a transitory thing. It's not my life, I just enjoy it. I'd guess that this group is populated by mostly older players.


Serious Players.
This group is populated by those who, for whatever reason, regard playing online games as an important part of their lives. They equip themselves with all the binds and performance enhancers they can. They think nothing of using timer if it gives them an edge. They practice for hours on end, to perfect their technique. A Fun Player *can* give a Serious Player a drubbing, but in the long term, the SP has the edge.


Cheats.
This group is populated by those who don't *play* a game. It doesn't matter what they are playing, as long as they have every aid they can possibly get. Their config and pak files are altered so much, I doubt if they know themselves what game they're playing. But to them it doesn't matter. QuakeX is just another tool to enable them to WIN, and WIN they must. I suspect they are not very successful in other parts of their lives, but at least with online gaming, they can show us all that they are not losers, but are instead WINNERS.

So when does a Serious Player become a Cheat?

That is a difficult one, and I would guess that the blurring of the boundries between these two groups is the biggest turn off for many Fun/Serious Players.

Take, for example, timers. Timers are the ideal example of the 'blurring'. They give you an unfair advantage over those players that don't use them. You can dominate the powerups, and effectively change the course of a game. But are all Timer users cheats? After all, everyone can get one. I would say YES they are cheating. They can't be called from the console, and are therefore not part of the game.

But hang on! One of the most sporting clans uses them (.E). Anyone who plays CTF with these guys knows that they play hard, but fair. They switch to losing teams, and are altogether 'Good People'. But they use timers, so...they are CHEATING! (You can't cheat just a little, you either do, or you don't).

Of course timers are not the only aid, and are perhaps the least annoying. High visibility skins, altered gamma control and spiked models abound. I guarantee that if you play on a full public server, you are playing with at least one cheat, one person who just 'needs' that edge.

My final thought

What is the point of playing an atmospheric, dark, game, when everyone else has their settings so altered, that they could be playing in a floodlit stadium?

Glad I got that off my chest

Ok, I've had my say...but what do you think?

 

[DApea!]

Well, i was none of those, when i played i played cos i was bored and had no life really, i had alot of mates and went to LAN's i went out to the pub and shit somtimes but i wasnt playing for fun and i wasnt what 'YOU' define a 'Serious Player'.

I didnt use timers, cos i didnt get quad or powerups ever, i didnt use any special paks, and all i did in my config was team binds.

Sure i had stuff in my config to speed things up a little, and a small GL_Modulate (3.5).

I didnt cheat afaik, i didnt play for fun, and i didnt play Seriously.

I can say i was a good player though.

$2 worth.

Once known as:
<HooD>Pea!
[NME] Pea!

(I got around)

 

[Jace]

You make far too many generalisations and assumptions.

I would class myself as a serious gamer (purely from the amount of time/money I spend) but I would never dream of using timers or 'performance enhancers'. You miss totally that there is a group of serious players who play the game 'as it comes' and are not interested in using any 'enhancements'.

The problem is that many people also think as you do and assume that a 'serious gamer' who is doing well must be using some sort of 'enhancement' or another. The leap then from 'serious gamer' to 'cheat' is not a large one so better players get branded cheats even though they are using exactly the same software as everyone else.

I am very active in the UT scene and whilst, on the whole, the level of player abuse is much lower than it was in Quake I still find it annoying to not be able to play games without being branded a cheat at least once a night.

Good play deserves respect and NOT suspicion.

 

[old.trekker]

It's only a game isn't it?

If you find yourself playing for any reason but enjoyment, then you are only fooling yourself.I play Q2 purely for the fun of it, as a distraction from everyday routine.

I have been in a couple of clans myself and did not enjoy being told exactly when and where I would play.I play when I feel like it, and if I get my arse kicked, big deal.I don't pretend to be any kind of Q2 "god" for as long as I have a smile on my face while playing, that's all that matters.

 

[old.JaK swan]

Well I was with ya up until 'somebody once wrote.' The Microsoft thing is just what's done, I've sold a lot of different things and if you can dictate the market then pat on the back etc.
As for fun/serious/cheating players, well that's the way it goes to, I've met a lot of peeps who will put everything into a game of snap, that's just the way they are. I've been in a lot of clans been given a kicking and won well, if I enjoy it whatever.
If someone is a cheat on-line and using anything tbh I don't really care its not my prob. I've met players in RL who actually have an ego as a result of being good at FPS's, again not my prob theirs.
You can apply this to anything, in my career I've met a lot who are really preoccupied with promotions, I've just focused on getting the job done and getting better. Now I think back 90% of that type are still at the same level.
Gaming on-line, its better than TV.

 

[Guest]

Well maybe the Microsoft analogy wasn't the best, but it served it's purpose (and it's all I could think of at the time).

As for not being bothered about cheating, well, I am. Why should I pay to participate in a game where some of the players aren't 'playing'.

Barrysworld servers seem to attract a 'better' type of player, perhaps because the base level of experience/sportsmanship is so high. But even here I was offered Satan's Little Helper, so at least one person is using an unacceptable aid (I don't know if it was when the server was set to sv_pure 0). Of course I refused, if I suddenly started to actually hit what I was aiming at, people would become suspicious

I'm very interested in your workplace analogy (and wished I'd thought of it). It's very true.

Online gaming better than TV? Online nose-picking is better than most TV


[This message has been edited by SoWat (edited 19 February 2000).]

 

[old.[MOD]Psycho]

As I have recently turned in to a lazy git I could only be bothered to read the top post and my conclusion is that you are a idiot, a complete and utter idiot. I've been playing Q2 for over a year now, been in a clan for all of that time and I've been running that clan for all of that time. As for the remark you don't want to be in a clan, fine that is ok, but don't say that clan ppl are serious players, we are far from it, we all just love teampaly Q2 with m8s, hence the clan and the m8s in the clan.

The part about timers being cheats, no way (unless they are automated), manual timers are perfectly fair devices, I've been using them for quite a while and it just improves skill a bit and helps you out, those that don't get em like you are just denying yourself part of the game.

Another thing is that changing your binds to make you better is fine. However a lot of things in my opinion can be counted as cheating, like .cfg that will make rockets more illuminous or larger and the same with grenades, things that change your crosshair (these would be ok for someone with eyesight problems though), anything that automates for .cgf and especially bots.

I play for fun but I play seriously, playing seriously can be fun, you just need to know how to play the game properly, winning is fun but not the end of the world.

 

[Guest]

Gosh, all these saints suddenly popping out of the woodwork.

If you'd shifted out of 'lazy git' mode, and read the rest of the postings, I might have taken your message seriously. In fact, if you'd taken care when reading the original message, I might have taken your reply seriously.

Idiot huh? You've just proved that, like a lot of 'serious' players, you don't comprehend the word 'discussion', but prefer to shoot with your mouth first.

You make some valid points, but fell at the first fence...pathetic.

 

[old.[MOD]Psycho]

I'm pathetic, your the one ripping it out of serious players and as to my guess mainly cos they are beating you and pissing you off, why else would you post something like this

 

[Guest]

Oh ffs!

Look, I'm not into personal insults.

YOU are not pathetic, your RESPONSE was pathetic (I can see why the BW columnists have started putting disclaimers at the bottom of their updates).

My original post was meant to generate discussion. If you look at the bottom, it says "What do you think?". As in, "Do you think I'm right, wrong, or halfway in between". I was personally interested in what other people thought. I didn't say everyone and his dog were cheating Llamas.

If I'm talking a load of bollocks, I'd like someone to refute, in a rational manner, what I've suggested. The situation I outlined in my original post, was how I felt at the time, and still do. If your online experience is different, tell me, and tell me why.

As for my playing skills, that's got nothing to do with it, but for your interest, I do OK. I frag, and I get fragged. That's it. I don't whine, sulk, or insult. I just play.

 

[old.Monyet]

it's been argued over many boards on many websites all over the world, but the most common conclusion is:

manual timers: not cheating

automated timers: cheating

to twist things Savage have proposed randomising the powerups in matches respawn between 50-70 seconds after being picked up (like BWCTFL was)

we tried this today and within 2 or 3 minutes into the game i gave up timing the damn thing

hmmmmm performance enhancers, i use an fov of 120, i can see more on screen than others who use the standard - does that mean i'm a serious player?

i have binds that zoom in a great distance and i've also moved all my movement keys so that i can access more keys allowing me to have more binds....

do i play the game seriously? no - those extras just add extra depth to it, like teamplay with your clan, making the game more enjoyable

how long you been playing online FPS games btw? i can't help but think you're quite new :/ prove me wrong....

OMG i just read what i wrote and it's utter bollox, man i should get some sleep

[This message has been edited by Monyet (edited 20 February 2000).]

 

[old.Monyet]

Ah an ex-freezetagger, that explains a lot

you say you've been playing q2 since it came out - doesn't indicate wether how long you were playing it online.....

there aren't really any serious players (apart from sujoy - but he gets paid) just a bunch of kids (or adults who haven't matured) who whine a lot

[This message has been edited by Monyet (edited 20 February 2000).]

 

[Guest]

I think I'd go along with the manual/automatic timer thing. Do people actually use manual timers?

I'm of the opinion that console commands aren't cheating at all. Anyone can use them, and they're an integral part of the game. As a side note, I notice that some tournaments disallow use of the console during play (though I'd guess that's a LAN type thing).

Oh, I've been playing since around the time Quake2 came out. I used to play Freeze-Tag a lot, and will do so again when the Quake3 version is hosted at BW.

 

[Guest]

I played Quake2 online right from the start, but I've been playing 'online' for a lot longer (mainly BBS RPGs).

Heh, yes the Freeze-Taggers are different, but knowing that someone is trying their best to come get you, makes one feel all warm and cuddly inside <ahem>.

 

[old.Monyet]

and how do you feel when they actually 'get' you?

so you been playing q2 for the 2 years it's been out? and you've only hung around on publics all that time?

ah well i submit - compared to you i guess i am a 'serious' player then

btw - do you class camping as cheating as well?

 

[old.frankie]

hi, about camping, ive been playing HL CS for a bit now, and if u know it well then u know that its all about guns, and u really do have to camp, but people still complain, even though they do the same thing, are you expected to run around a level with a full on sniper rifle, trying to shoot everyone >?, i think not, and also you can't run, as the damn things so heavy, people are stupid sometimes, but do what u want to win, its none of their business what u do, also games are supposed to reprasent some form of real life right >?, then in real life would u really go beserk with a sniper rifle and running around missing all the time ?, i think not.

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DR_FRANKENSTIEN




[This message has been edited by frankie (edited 20 February 2000).]

 

[old.Monyet]

rofl @ frankie

most CS players are total twats anyway - the other nite i was playing and there were a few using using racist names and thinking it was funny.

camping is a HUGE part of CS - although running around with that huge sniper rifle is like running around with a railgun. you shoot....wait......then shoot again

back to my question, do you class camping IN QUAKE2 as cheating?

[This message has been edited by Monyet (edited 20 February 2000).]

 

[Guest]

Er, I meant when someone was trying their best to come defrost you

It's one of the few games where you *have* to play as a team (which is pretty good for public servers).

Yes, I've only played on public servers. That's my own fault, I guess, as I've never been into the clan thing. And if you're not in a clan, then there's really no other option (as far as I know).

I'm not very clued up on the clan scene, but I know there are some good ones. [SS] in Q2 for example (are they still going?). There are some right wotsits too. I was spectating a game on EED's server, where Billox announced that he wouldn't play with anymore 'ISDN Weenies'. No encouragement, no advice, just a total putdown of the people that were playing.

As for camping, I'd say camping was not very sporting, but it's not strictly cheating. It's one of those issues where the acceptability changes according to the game played. For CTF (and CS), it's ok, as 'guarding' is part of the play. For 1v1 it seems to be ok too (that's just what I've read, I don't play 1v1).

 

[old.Monyet]

ohh like that

trouble with freezetag is when ppl are frozen they have time to whine. and boy do they WHINE!!

SS are still going but they play q3 only now and i think that's the same for EED

 

[old.[SS]hol]

OI!!!!

Dont forget the [SS] UT llamas

-hol

IRC channel #academy

 

[DApea!]

Running around with the Rail is good.

[EVIL] vs Le- (Dm3)

Cough Monyet.. hehe thats where i remember you from

Still got the screenie

 

[old.Monyet]

rofl @ Pea

ahh the good old days

 

[old.[AMC]NinjaGaz]

A funny post. You start of making a point until the flames come then it all goes out of hand. I can hardly remember what was said I think the main thing SoWat did wrong was to limit the categories to 3. Maybe you should have added the "Extremist" or something. He's the one who gets the timers, adds hundreds of binds... and possibly cheats.

The serious gamer, is someone who loves the game so much that he WANTS to play the game when he/she has some free time. Their aim is to perform well and continually improve his/her performance. Overall they play for fun, but spend a lot of time doing it.

As for cheating I'm not sure how much is going on. I can say that (as far as I know) have not experiences any cheating. The only thing you COULD classify as cheating is when someone does one of those moves like the Blanca electrocution - i.e. one the enemy can do nowt about!

One example is when you stand in the Shield Belt room with the shock rifle blasting anyone that comes in. This is, though, do it yourself and you'll find its hard.

From my experience, anything you view as possible cheating is down to superb play from the individual. Of course, I haven't heard of that little Satan thing and hope it doesn't get around.

Finally camping, it is important to have but can be annoying. Thing is though, again from my experience, campers get very little respect. If I see someone on Face getting a sniper rifle Godlike, I would rate it somewhere just below a normal out-and-out fighter getting a Rampage. Does anyone think snipers are skilled?

Obviously some are better than others and some ARE really good players, but they will never earn the respect of a typical fighter who uses the other weapons.

I wouldn't worry too much about the other comments SoWat, most people are in this game for fun - it made me laugh

I must say the UT community is far better than the Q3 one. We're all a bunch of cool guys (Except those damned cheaters and extremists and moaning newbies and campers)

 

[old.[AMC]NinjaGaz]

A funny post. You start of making a point until the flames come then it all goes out of hand. I can hardly remember what was said I think the main thing SoWat did wrong was to limit the categories to 3. Maybe you should have added the "Extremist" or something. He's the one who gets the timers, adds hundreds of binds... and possibly cheats.

The serious gamer, is someone who loves the game so much that he WANTS to play the game when he/she has some free time. Their aim is to perform well and continually improve his/her performance. Overall they play for fun, but spend a lot of time doing it.

As for cheating I'm not sure how much is going on. I can say that (as far as I know) have not experiences any cheating. The only thing you COULD classify as cheating is when someone does one of those moves like the Blanca electrocution - i.e. one the enemy can do nowt about!

One example is when you stand in the Shield Belt room with the shock rifle blasting anyone that comes in. This is, though, do it yourself and you'll find its hard.

From my experience, anything you view as possible cheating is down to superb play from the individual. Of course, I haven't heard of that little Satan thing and hope it doesn't get around.

Finally camping, it is important to have but can be annoying. Thing is though, again from my experience, campers get very little respect. If I see someone on Face getting a sniper rifle Godlike, I would rate it somewhere just below a normal out-and-out fighter getting a Rampage. Does anyone think snipers are skilled?

Obviously some are better than others and some ARE really good players, but they will never earn the respect of a typical fighter who uses the other weapons.

I wouldn't worry too much about the other comments SoWat, most people are in this game for fun - it made me laugh

I must say the UT community is far better than the Q3 one. We're all a bunch of cool guys (Except those damned cheaters and extremists and moaning newbies and campers)

 

[old.[AMC]NinjaGaz]

Actually, the way you wrote your message was ok. You continually said that it is the way YOU judge things and dont make assumptions about what others think.

I don't think there was anything wrong with what you said, most of us who read the post

properly would have seen you were just asking for their views, not a bunch of flames.

4 now

 

[old.[AMC]NinjaGaz]

Bloody hell, my first ever post and I post the same thing twice. Damn it!

 

[Guest]

Three posts even

The Satan's little helper thing, is a Quake3 hack. I believe it works by shooting when you 'identify' someone, i.e. when their name pops up when you target them. I would guess that a 'fire' command has been inserted in the identification routine.

In retrospect I should have included an 'extreme' group. The categories I used were just not enough, and only served to piss everyone off (hmmm...not that bad then!).


Editing was correction of mis-spelled words (bloody Microsoft keyboard...too small)

[This message has been edited by SoWat (edited 22 February 2000).]

 

[old.[MOD]Psycho]

Hey flaming rulz man

 

[old.[AMC]NinjaGaz]