OK who is the better player ?

[Awarkle]

This is just a friendly discussion to promote general discussion

in rvr who is the better player.

The person in a full group twinked out with buffbots galore and all the artis ? who kills and gets rps.

or

the person who runs pickup groups not access to the equipment but still manages to kill and make rps

discuss.

 

[Aoln]

Example of the second?

 

[Bubble]

Player 1 took the time and effort to Twink himeself
Player 2 got lucky he wasn't against player 1 or was a bonedancer

 

[Xeanor]

Can't make any decent conclusions out of those 2 statements, you need more info on the way the player plays rather than the way the player makes his character and how he combines it with others.

 

[Animus]

Player 1 took the time and effort to Twink himeself
Player 2 got lucky he wasn't against player 1 or was a bonedancer

What he said :touch:

 

[Sycho]

Neither, since the game has a random combat generated system(can't control evade/block/parry by yourself) and relies mainly on reflexes more than anything else.(i.e if you mezzed a fg and they have hardly anyone who purges, you will win 90-95% of time)

 

[Boggy]

"Better" is a tricky comparison there. Might want to narrow it to "More successful" or "More skillful" or something.

Player 1 knows how to stack the deck in his favour and had the time to do it (whatever anyone says, equipment is just a matter of putting in the hours). Reading advice on how to make a template and then finding time to do it doesn't require any skill but will lead to you winning more fights.

Player 2, if he wins consistently enough for it to not be luck, is winning when the deck is not stacked in his favour so probably has a knack for RvR (reaction time, positioning, targetting, spell/style selection, whatever).

However, there is nothing to say that player 1 wouldn't be skillful enough to win without his artis. He could be a very skilled AND well-equipped player. I suppose that would only become apparent if he consistently won against other similarly equipped players.

 

[Elendar]

you can't compare how they'd do against the same enemy, challenges would be different for them both

its like saying is someone whos a lgm crafter better at daoc than someone who doesn't craft

 

[Maeloch]

Game is easier for twinked peeps/grps, but they still might be the most skilled anyhow.

Mael, 50th ment.

 

[Phooka]

I rule ( player2 )

 

[Roadie]

and relies mainly on reflexes more than anything else

id say it more relies partly on this but id say your ingame "reactions" are generated by your ping + your frame rate as much as, if not more than your human reactions.

If you ebayed an account and your loot was so damn posh your armor instantly burned out the retina of friends and foe alike but u knew buggerall about the game your probably going to lose because you don’t know when and where your abilities are best suited so you wouldn’t be a good. U might win fights where it came down to game mechanics say if your a tank/stealthier and it was a more or less duel situation. In this situation you would be a bad player because you would be relying on your equipment to kill them. They would be a better player even though they lost and made no rp's.

In your question your defining a good player as someone who makes rp's in groups :touch: but to be good in a group and make rp's you have to rely too heavily on the rest of the group for it to be one persons input that would make your "pickup" group win (your a bard, you land an amazing mez, keep all their casters from casting but your druids don’t heal and your casters all hide and your grapple spammers.....well they cant really screw up unless they fall asleep rly but I suppose they could all /stick the same tank, then one of their casters q/c nukes you the rest join in and you lose). Also it is virtually imposable for a pickup group to take down a guild group atm because of better teamwork (both communication and deep rooted knowledge of others play styles) and higher realm rank on the sides of the guild groups.

This by the terms of your question would make them better players as they make more rp's and in a way they will be because they worked together better but their could be a stand out player on the other team who delayed the inevitable in a way that the guild group hadn’t even thought about, imo he would be the best player there but he would be let down by his group so he would lose and so be a bad player by definition!

Also the question completely discounts the people who originally decided to make "opted" groups i.e. Fadeh. I remember Straef saying ages ago that he would be rr10 if he had a fg 2 run with every day with a decent sorc + clerics in and that’s probably true, but the reason he isn’t is because he didn’t have the foresight to put together a rvr orientated guild with people he knew played alot and wanted the same things from the game as him. Fadeh is probably not much better than the next guy at actually playing his class but because he was the man with the plan he was there to some serious farming while the competition was relatively low thereby raising his realm rank quickly and bringing a further edge to his already above average group. Its the peeps who have original tactics that are the best players imo, apart from that it comes down to a mixture of ping, framerate, experiance, staying cool, reactions and game knowledge.

ps im not some huge fan of fadeh for all i know he could have copied the tank group template from some other group on another server/not been responsible for playing in the same groups. He is just an example

pps i should sleep

 

[Dorin]

the 3rd player who adds on the fight

 

[Lokir]

RAs......
an RR1 grp vs RR9+ who do you think win?
2fg rr1 against 1 rr9+ Who do you think win?

in an equal rr/equipment there are some reflexes/skill chosing
targets invilved.

 

[Ivan]

Basically the game is about numbers. Since option 1 has opted set-up and opted gear, option 2 does not have optimized anything.

So 1-0 so far

Opted groups gain more RP, thus they get access to more RA, which is crucial for RvR.

So 2-0 thus far

Training : by playing as a team (knowing how a person will react in a given situation etc) you have way more chances of winning.

Totalling 3-0

Option 1 wins by KO.

But what determines the better player ? Is it winning constantly ? Is it spending time getting the opted setup ? Is is the amount of RPs ? Is it stealth zerg ? Is it luck of random rolls ? Is it the personality of the player at the keyboard ?

 

[Aussie]

Example of the second?

leeching scouts in stealthzerggroups

 

[Zebolt]

Clearly I am the better player ^^

 

[behatch]

the 3rd player who adds on the fight

lol

 

[Marcus75]

Imo this game takes practice so often, but not always, the guys in the guildgroups is better due to more experience.

So I would go with option 1 if I had to choose.

However...its usually the cc-classes and healing classes that need to show/have the most skill in those groups imo...not the ma-train of casters/tanks and since they dont get kills Im guessing they dont fit into this topic.

 

[fionnel]

I think the question is wrong, i do not know anyone who runs in pick up groups these days w/o good eq and still manages to make rp's, assuming you mean he runs with 1 fg and not 100 people stuck on his ass.

 

[Ivan]

I think the question is wrong, i do not know anyone who runs in pick up groups these days w/o good eq and still manages to make rp's, assuming you mean he runs with 1 fg and not 100 people stuck on his ass.

A pick up zerg ... new term

 

[Araudry]

leeching scouts in stealthzerggroups

thats how u get rps ? gw xD

 

[Straef]

Option 4, the non-stealth soloer \o/

 

[Mordur]

in a perfect world where situations would be identical, luck would be inexistant, and both players do a 1on1 vs thesame player i'd say the untoa'd player is the better, tho already there is a small problem as people differ in reflexes etc (i for instance can never hit a decent reactionary, even if i backup styles ;p)
then u got the human factor, ie. people like to play dirty and do everything to win a battle, i remember the windowdragging issue etc.
so to be totally honest you have to do a 1on1 against an AI scripted enemy to find out who is the better man, as there is no way to abuse lag and strafing etc for your own good

conclusion: if u wanna find out who's got skill, go PVE with umbral things and make sure you're thesame class

second conclusion: comparissons are irrelevant.

 

[remi]

the 2nd one is obviously a newbie




xD

 

[Osri]

Skillz is how you do your job in grp which is expected/defined for you, knowing what is "best" to do in situations with your char and how use best its abilities involved gear, ml´s, ra´s etc ?

 

[Teknoid]

Player one can have everything, and still be a bad player. Get confused, get frustrated, panic, and just generally make the wrong move.
But they are normally the player who makes all the right moves because they have put in the time and effort to tweak their player with everything they can, and will probably put in the time to learn to play their char properly too.

Player two could be a great player, but no matter what, is just insane or lazy to not put in the time to "perfect" their char with arti's and caps.

 

[Aeris]

my char has the artis and decent template, just not the uber opted gg so what am i?

 

[Dorin]

leeching scouts in stealthzerggroups

coming from an expert!

 

[Morchaoron]

The person in a full group twinked out with buffbots galore and all the artis ? who kills and gets rps.

or

the person who runs pickup groups not access to the equipment but still manages to kill and make rps

the 3rd person who realises that if you wanna be good you shouldnt play daoc?

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Impossible to judge really, entirely situation dependent.

Twinkage helps, but wont win you fights against superior odds unless you know what youre doing.

And no amount of knowledge/skill will help you if you dont have the tools you need (MLs/RA's/Artis blah).

So:little bit from column A,little bit from column B i'd say...