Ok scouties, question

[Greenfingers]

Lets say i have high MoS and see 2 assasins inc, then i might rather use winged helm or enylias boots to speed away.

Why would U even CONSIDER having MoS when U say it's all about keep fights? I just don't get it... ?

Maybe i like band of stars more for insta charge.

Interesting idea using this bracer and in general nice util on it, though the actual thing about this item is that it lvls in SI Dungeons... and SLOW !

Maybe i like to max hp which ofc wont give as much in melee as SoM, but will help me survive longer against nukers while im shoting from walls.

Doens't help U much, really ... what U need to do is to get on the walls, Stealth, find an easy target, draw Crit, wait for the "ready to fire" msg appears, push your bow icon once, draw new Crit and release asap. That's what we scouts call a instant kill, as the target barely find out that he/she is getting shot at.

Maybe i would like to use new gem avaliable in 1.71 with xtra damage.

Yes, the additional 2% dmg is really something, not!
The stats are crap, no use for Matter resist's at all, don't need +2 bowskill as you already have that from Mariasha's and your bow, and can easily fit in the additional skills in your SC'd armor.
Capped Critshot is somewhat 1100'ish, yea? (with 7% dmg) so the extra 2% is like 22 dmg ... WOW! Only reason why U need this gem is to show off, nuttin else!

The game changes, atm SoM is the best scout cloak imo, but it will most likely not be in NF.

I'd like to see your template sometime when NF reveals it's face, and experience your combat skills w/o SoM. Consider that a challenge

The reason why Im being so harsh on you Kinad (sry, nothing personal ), is that I want the best for my realm and the way I see it you are misguiding the poor FOTM scouties.
Would like to discuss a SUPAR template with you sometime (U got some good healthy ideas in your head, Im sure) so gimmie a PM if U don't find me being a total jackarse !

 

[Gethin]

Why would U even CONSIDER having MoS when U say it's all about keep fights? I just don't get it... ?

Interesting idea using this bracer and in general nice util on it, though the actual thing about this item is that it lvls in SI Dungeons... and SLOW !

Doens't help U much, really ... what U need to do is to get on the walls, Stealth, find an easy target, draw Crit, wait for the "ready to fire" msg appears, push your bow icon once, draw new Crit and release asap. That's what we scouts call a instant kill, as the target barely find out that he/she is getting shot at.

Yes, the additional 2% dmg is really something, not!
The stats are crap, no use for Matter resist's at all, don't need +2 bowskill as you already have that from Mariasha's and your bow, and can easily fit in the additional skills in your SC'd armor.
Capped Critshot is somewhat 1100'ish, yea? (with 7% dmg) so the extra 2% is like 22 dmg ... WOW! Only reason why U need this gem is to show off, nuttin else!


I'd like to see your template sometime when NF reveals it's face, and experience your combat skills w/o SoM. Consider that a challenge

The reason why Im being so harsh on you Kinad (sry, nothing personal ), is that I want the best for my realm and the way I see it you are misguiding the poor FOTM scouties.
Would like to discuss a SUPAR template with you sometime (U got some good healthy ideas in your head, Im sure) so gimmie a PM if U don't find me being a total jackarse !

Actually what kinad is saying has alot of truth to it. The usefulness of SoM all depends on what type of rvr we are going to encounter. I suspect in the beginning we will see huge keep fights(so som will lose its usefulness), but longer term i believe it will go back to roughly the way rvr is today.

Any scout with MoS, SoM, Winged Helm and BoS combination will take alot of killing when that day arrives.

 

[Jpeg[LOD]]

my som doesnt seem to proc anywhere near as often as it did before they chaged the shade mode form.. dunno if its just me avin bad luck. but because it proc's so rare (or seems to do so) i dont think i will have it in my NF template.

but there again i might stick with it. i have even considered making a melee templae (melee dmge/style/speed ) because im going to go 50 melee spec. the loss in bow range might hurt me but IMO in the long run... the +bow dmge/speed wont be missed much... but i think the style/haste/dmge bonus template might help me a lot in melee siuations.

i think most templates etc etc are based on playstyle.. so no1 is right or wrong. its just a case of personal preference. as long as u have max in the stats U want . going by the way u want to play. then imo nowt wrong with that.

 

[Greenfingers]

Any scout with MoS will take alot of killing when that day arrives.

U can't kill anything with MoS, only helps you detect something that U can't kill.

RR7:
50Thrust/Slash, 42 Shield, 33 Stealth, 21 LB
MoP 3
Physical Defense 4
MoS 3
MoBlocking 3
IP 1
Purge 1
Then U can go pharm Assasins ...

High WS, high Blockrate (normal blockrate + 10% (half vs. DW's, 5%)), 19% more absorb, 17% chance of crit, 15% detect range (300 units) and 20% IP... just SUPAR !

Purge 1 is only needed with this spec, as U only need need to purge the poisons, debuffs, disease and maybe a stun in the first 5 secs of a battle. So when entering a battle with an Assasin U use purge and after 5 secs the debuffs are gone. If the Assasin is lucky to get PA and CD on you, U also get to purge this.

Im gonna try a few things out in NF, that's for sure .. and got a few respec stones for it aswell

 

[Tootz]

Think what Kinad was saying is that most artifacts have very low utility which means you can only really use maybe 3 or 4 in a good template without suffering crap resists, or losing valuable bonuses, stat caps, etc.

Although right now SoM might be the best cloak out there, come NF where the majority of your points will be made from the top of keeps/towers, then a cloak which is worn solely for an ablative might seem a stupid choice when you could have, lets say, the feathered wrap with its massive utility value, and then choose to go with another artifact somewhere else which would give you more benefit when using your bow (i.e. the Gem of Lost Memories).

At the end of the day you use whatever you are willing to camp/pay for. Personally, I can't spend hours camping SoM, nor am I inclined to pay 30p for the cloak and book, which is why I doubt I'll be using it.

 

[Gethin]

U can't kill anything with MoS, only helps you detect something that U can't kill.

RR7:
50Thrust/Slash, 42 Shield, 33 Stealth, 21 LB
MoP 3
Physical Defense 4
MoS 3
MoBlocking 3
IP 1
Purge 1
Then U can go pharm Assasins ...

High WS, high Blockrate (normal blockrate + 10% (half vs. DW's, 5%)), 19% more absorb, 17% chance of crit, 15% detect range (300 units) and 20% IP... just SUPAR !

Purge 1 is only needed with this spec, as U only need need to purge the poisons, debuffs, disease and maybe a stun in the first 5 secs of a battle. So when entering a battle with an Assasin U use purge and after 5 secs the debuffs are gone. If the Assasin is lucky to get PA and CD on you, U also get to purge this.

Im gonna try a few things out in NF, that's for sure .. and got a few respec stones for it aswell

Next time you quote me and indicate i have stated something incorrectly, make sure you quote what i say in its entirity, dont cherry pick. As for your other comments I am well aware of what MoS is and how it works. Secondly as for farming assasins, i never stated that, i indicated that any scout with that combination i mentioned would be harder to kill, not that he\she would be able to farm\kill quicker.

But as you stated earlier a scout isn't your main so maybe you arent as upto speed as you could be about what a scout needs thesedays

 

[Greenfingers]

Next time you quote me and indicate i have stated something incorrectly, make sure you quote what i say in its entirity, dont cherry pick.

Who said anything about U being incorrect?

About the cherry pick part, then yea I choose out a single line or comment of your post, as I disagree with you.
If you think Im being wrong for doing this, just ignore it... this is simply how I post.

Any scout with MoS, SoM, Winged Helm and BoS combination will take alot of killing when that day arrives.

Im just curious, how will U kill something with the combination of those items, when U run away from the enemy? Im talking about open RvR, and not keep situations, since it's waaay to easy to kill from a keep.

 

[Raven]

Im just curious, how will U kill something with the combination of those items, when U run away from the enemy? Im talking about open RvR.

run away, /face shoot, or you shoot something and they run off you can chase and kill them.

 

[Jpeg[LOD]]

Im just curious, how will U kill something with the combination of those items, when U run away from the enemy? Im talking about open RvR, and not keep situations, since it's waaay to easy to kill from a keep.

Shield trip!!!!!!


i know many scouts see this as an escape tool. but i reckon (obviousy i aint tested it) as a form of offense...

Shield trip a SB who just attacked u. (its a ROOT not a stun) so i now have 9? (cant rmemeber if it is 9 or 10) seconds to sprint/run as far away as possible but in rang to fire arrows. bear in mind i cant attack for 12 seconds... so i basically i got 9 seconds to get a 3+second gap.... preferably more. then /face /crit or shoot him whilst he inc to whack me (or running away).or can basically just stealth n run to hide nother place n live another day.

 

[Sharpo]

I don't like the way this thread is going, iron aint yelling things in B and U yet and noone has blamed him for anything so far

 

[Gethin]

Who said anything about U being incorrect?
About the cherry pick part, then yea I choose out a single line or comment of your post, as I disagree with you. If you think Im being wrong for doing this, just ignore it... this is simply how I post.

Well normally i wouldn't but since you took what i said and changed the context completely in an effort to make me look silly it was worth pointing out the fact.

Im just curious, how will U kill something with the combination of those items, when U run away from the enemy? Im talking about open RvR, and not keep situations, since it's waaay to easy to kill from a keep.

Who said anything about running away, LOL you really are a noob, how hard do you think im gonna be hit combining the ablative and aura?

You might want to have a little read up before making any more comments.

 

[Jaem-]

heh few people with strong ideas, and only they are right sort! ;o

 

[Kinad]

My post was about choices, suit your items, spec and ra's to your playstyle and time avaliabel to play, because you cant have it all.

Lets talk about SoM now on a low rr scout. Will it help him in a fight against an assasin ? Sure, but it might not make a difference in the end. SoM mostly usefull if it allows you to win fights, not to prolong them until you lose.
On the other hand SoM might allow such a scout to survive long enough for
help to arrive. On the other hand time used to aquire the cloak might earn
you enough rp in RvR to get Purge/IP, which would be just as good.

 

[Kinad]

Btw lets talk a bit about damage.

DaoC damage is mostly made as * on fixed Dps, thats why slower bows in theory is better than faster bows. You increase speed 10 %, the slow bow get a higher benefit, which increase damage.

Lets say you have 2 % xtra damage.

Now with 10 % speed its 2 *1.10 = 2,2 %.
With high FE delivering around 10 % effective damage its 2,2 * 1,1 = 2,42 %
Lets add a debuff proc from say Bullhorn on leather, then its 2,42 * 1.05 = 2,51 %.
Lets add the correct use of arrows, 2,51 * 1,1 = 2,76 %.
.....

I dont know exact coding, neither an expert on mathematics, so above should not be considered foolproof facts, but the general principle is there.
It all adds up.

 

[[e]]

Unless they add new items to the game, atm SoM is and will be the best cloak even in NF. Assuming certain type of RvR and specing for only that is stupid.

It is possible to make a template that *almost capps everything (80+ extra hits, dex, stats, skills and resists). The 1-2 resist you wont cap are a) not of primery importance and b) so close to cap anyway that it wont make nor break you. However a templete of this kind is very expensive and not realistic for most of you (at least I think, don't know how many plats average "scout" is walking around with). I will post a templ like this once I have all my items, dont want you guys to screw up the prices further, by everybody wanting same items as I need. (this should, atleast partly, answer a question earlier in thread about why somebody didnt post templ).

All this philosophy about the leet % here and there is plain bullshit and only purpose with all this is to increase some ppls e-penis. For example, going from 7% increase bow dmg to 9% is so little that it wont make any difference in the terms of "you wont save that extra arrow for the kill". This is true for most of the "tweak-it-until-PvE-comes-out-of-your-arse-templates". Think about time invested and the return to you get. In most cases it's not worth it.

Try to make a good balanced template with your economy/time investment-return in mind and the probability that you will get the items in the template. No point in making idiotcopy of somebody e-penis template. By the time average scout will have all the items, the game has changed completely and you can start over. Try to have FUN now!

You can make a very good template with 2-3 artis, questitems, drops, sc that will hold it's ground to most leety-wannabes. Sure you wont win every fight, but you havent wasted 10-20 times the time/money/energy etc.
If you suck as a player, you will suck with any template. The "will-I-win-factor?" is determined by much more then those extra %.

Think for yourself, consider your own preferences/playstyle etc and have fun while ppl still play daoc.

 

[Kinad]

High rr NF sniper specced scout, assuming albs will zerg relics, and damage dont hit cap
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

10 % speed = factor 1.1
10 % damage from high FE = factor 1.1
Marias accuracy proc arrows, lets say : factor 1.05
Dex lets say 0,2 % damage pr point and assuming 26+48 : factor 1.15
A bow proc of some sort, lets set it to : factor 1.05
Correct use of arrows : factor 1.1
Assume 2 relics : factor 1.2

Together : Factor 2.13

Now add 9 % from artifacts : 2,13 *1.09 = 2,32 so the 9 % is transformed
into maybe around 18 % because everything seems to add together.

Maybe above not 100 % accurate calculated since noone knows excat code, but it has nothing to do with size of someones e-penis, the COMBINED advantages makes damage go ballistic.

How people spec and what items they use not my concern, but once again,
when it comes to bow damage IT ALL ADDS UP, maybe not in a single unlucky fight but over time.

Im sure any alb scout has tryied to face one of the new toa'ed casters with +pierce, +damage, +dex and +speed, it all adds up, just like it does for us.

 

[Greenfingers]

yes, but is it worth ruining a template to get the additional 2,76% dmg? What U need is 2 Critshot on ANYTHING and it's dead ... simple as that.

Though maybe U can't kill a fully buffed Tank with like 2200+ hp.

 

[Kinad]

yes, but is it worth ruining a template to get the additional 2,76% dmg? What U need is 2 Critshot on ANYTHING and it's dead ... simple as that.

Though maybe U can't kill a fully buffed Tank with like 2200+ hp.

I cant tell which spec and items is best for a specifik scout, just pointing out the way combined advantages work. Same principle as +hp combined with IP.

Lets take :

Fools + GsV + high utility gem + 2 low utility cap dex items with say 14 dex, decent items and 7 % damage.

Now take :

Bullhorn(13 dex cap) + GsV + 2 % gem + 2 high utility items, decent items and 6 % damage.

Whats best i cant say but choices are there.