Obama: Fail.

[Scouse]

So much for "Change" we need eh?


I don't give a stuff about what Obama feels, or says he feels. I give a stuff about what he does. And, so far, it's business as usual as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Dukat]

Surely releasing those photo's is going to just stir up more shite?

Surely changing things for the right reasons, rather than changing them just to be seen to be changing things, is much preferrable?

 

[dysfunction]

I agree especially if he is trying to build relationships again with the middle east...

 

[Scouse]

I disagree, but with reasons. "You are what you do" is what, over the years, I've started to judge politicians by.

If Obama has the same policies as Bush, but entirely different motivations, we still end up with the same policies.

Obama campaigned on the "Change" ticket. Previously, he's taken the stance that, regardless of the possible dangers, America needed to release these photo's to show the world that it really has changed. In fact, the release of these photo's would do more to placate the disenchanted European and American's.

For me, ethically, and regardless of how other countries are run, America's on its last legs. Obama's pledged to change this. Now I need to see the actions matching the words. Unfortunately, so far I see Bush's policies being implemented.

Business as usual........

 

[Scouse]

Not surprised that more people aren't looking at this thread really.

Here's another big fail:

Civil liberties groups have reacted angrily to US President Barack Obama's decision to revive military trials for some Guantanamo Bay detainees.

Different motivations. Same policies.

Ari Fleischer, who was George W Bush's first press secretary, said President Obama "should acknowledge his campaign criticisms were wrong".

"With some minor changes, he really is following the same path President Bush pursued," he said.

So far not so good, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Dukat]

When he originally stopped the trials, he actually did say it would only be for 120 days so they could be reviewed - he never said the trials would be stopped and never done again.

He's ordered the place closed within 1 year - how can this be continuing the policies of the person who started it ?

He's done quite a few other things - such as with freedom of information - that point to a much better general direction in his policies.

Ok, so he hasnt started shitting ambrosia just yet, but he's been in office what - 4 months? Give the guy a chance.

 

[SilverHood]

lol, no one over here really cares about those photos. It's a distracting tactic for Obama riding roughshod over the US constitution with regards to the Chrysler bankruptcy proceedings.

 

[throdgrain]

Why would anyone give a toss? I don't.

The only thing I care about is that when they do finally set them free they'll probably talk us into taking some of them; we'll then give them council flats and social security for a couple of years, then they'll probably blow themselves up on the tube.

 

[Scouse]

Lots of people were banging on about it when Bush was in power. Now Obama does the same thing and nobody coughs?

Can't say I didn't expect it...

 

[rynnor]

Obama has 1 term written all over him - he came in on an unrealistic ticket that noone could have lived up to and the now that he's veering to the right he will alienate those who put him in power.

 

[Scouse]

Something else to add to the list.

US Energy Secretary Steven Chu says the US will not be able to cut greenhouse emissions as much as it should due to domestic political opposition...

...Barack Obama says he wants cuts in greenhouse gases but has left it to Congress to make the political running.

The House of Representatives is debating a climate and energy bill but even if it passes it may be rejected by senators, many of whom are funded by the energy industry.

 

[DaGaffer]

...in other words, rather than "Obama:Fail", it should read "Congress:Fail". The President has a lot of power but the American political system has this endemic problem of corporate sponsorship baked right in to it. Any sensible person wouldn't expect Obama to change this, just to keep the lid on it and not allow its full, Halliburtonesque expression.

In relation to your three links; 1. He's right, all those photos do is sell newspapers, they don't fix the problem and they're all old anyway. 2. If military tribunals get Guantanamo closed down more quickly, then the ends justify the means. I've read elsewhere that getting a civilian legal process set up to deal with this could take years (because of the inmates' murky legal status), so dealing with the problem using the in situ process (with safeguards) makes sense, especially if he wants the place shut down by nest year. Its a fucked-up situation in the first place, but simply turning these people out on to the street simply isn't an option. As for your third link, this is a problem with America, not Obama, and the new 2016 fuel efficiency standards he's forcing on the car industry are the most radical (and unlike previous fuel laws, national, not by state) America has ever seen (I happen to think they're wrong because they're all supply side not demand side, but the intention is laudable).

I have an enormously low opinion of ALL politicians (anyone wanting to be a politician is immediately suspect in my book), but I'm also realistic to realise that pragmatism sometimes get better results than idealism. Obama's been in office less than six months; far too soon to dismiss him as just the same as George Bush.

 

[Scouse]

2. If military tribunals get Guantanamo closed down more quickly, then the ends justify the means. I've read elsewhere that getting a civilian legal process set up to deal with this could take years (because of the inmates' murky legal status), so dealing with the problem using the in situ process (with safeguards) makes sense, especially if he wants the place shut down by nest year.

Disagree completely.

If you can't try them in a normal court with normal conditions of evidence then you're fixing the legal system to get convictions that you couldn't ordinarily get.

If the USA believes in democracy and the rule of law it can be no other way. If, on the other hand, we ditch the very values that are supposed to set us apart from other, less civilised, countries then we're no better than them. This is an argument most agreed on under Bush.

I've not "dismissed him" yet. I'm just providing a list of things that we (almost) all seemingly wanted George W. Bush shot for, that Obama promised to change, that he's failed at.

Remember my point - if he has the same policies, no matter the reasoning, we may as well have kept Bush.

He's mulling over changing US law so it includes "Preventive Detention" - the ability to lock people up without the evidence to try them.

Innocent until proven guilty my ass.

Human rights advocates are growing deeply uneasy with Mr. Obama’s stance on these issues.............his announcement that he is willing to try terrorism suspects in military commissions — a concept he criticized bitterly as a presidential candidate.............“We’ve known [Preventive Detention] is on the horizon for many years, but we were able to hold it off with George Bush. The idea that we might find ourselves fighting with the Obama administration over these powers is really stunning.”

I'm brimming with confidence and optimism about a future that is just, fair and equal for all, me...

 

[mooSe_]

Haha Steven Chu

whatChu talkin' 'bout?

 

[rynnor]

Preventative detention reminds me of that awful film 'Minority Report'

If that idea starts to gain ground we really are screwed - might as well scrap the courts and go back to summary justice - it would be a deathblow for natural justice.

I think Obama's problem is that he has no real beliefs - he's happy to compromise with everyone - not really the characteristics of a radical reformer that they were hoping for...

 

[Ctuchik]

he does what he can with what he got and can get away with, just because he's president doesent mean he will get what he wants all the time.

but so far he's done more good in his 150 odd days then Bush has done in 8 years.

so despite popular belief he just can't snap his fingers and everything will be allright....

 

[Scouse]

but so far he's done more good in his 150 odd days then Bush has done in 8 years.

What's he done? Backtrack on civil liberties and the environment?