O_o Clerics

[Loth]

From the Herald :-

After looking at all the feedback and talking to various players, we've decided to not include the cleric changes in 1.59. As the changes are, they seem to be somewhat overpowering, so we need to be a little cautious. We appreciate all the help testing this patch.

Surprised ?

 

[Novamir]

i don't see why they can't go halfway and say 3.5s cast or something? no doubt that the smite line needs strengthening a little imo.

 

[Psy|:m00:]

Nothing said about the apparent invulnerability of sorcs to all mez/stun at 45 mind (not likely i know but surely that's more overpowering than a 3 second cast dd )

 

[Psy|:m00:]

Just to point, the above isn't a whine or a flame per say, but mythics way of not adding more insta cc would be to effectively negate all other cc. Which, ehm, seems strange to me in the least

edit: I know for a fact i'll get flamed for that comment, and that i am biased against such large resistances against enemy mez (80% self resist at 45 mind), don't get me wrong here, they needed it, alot. But mythics logic does sometimes baffle me, give them a sodding insta that would have made people happy, but no, since it's a cloth caster it just isn't going to happen, which sucks, unfortunately :/

 

[Sharma]

Sorry Mythic but all you seem to do is talk bollocks, put back in the thane bolt timer then.

my view still holds.

Mythics Policy: Nerf Albion

thanks.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Thanes now nuke better and farther than full smite clerics...

interesting.

 

[Arumar]

just when you thought people would actually start playing clerics again...

 

[shilak]

Lol, cant believe someone is actually complaining that a Thane has more offensive power than a Cleric. FFS, Thanes are a melee/nuker hybrid class and Clerics are a healing class, if Thanes didnt do more damage there would be something seriously wrong!

As for the Sorcerer, Mythic seem to be going in circles here, they give Healers/Bards instas so they can compete with Sorcerers in the CC arena, then effectively give Sorcerers+group mezz immunity. What next ... castable mezz for healer/bard that ignores resists!

Is it just me or do most of Mythics 'fixes' to game balance go from one extreme to another?

Oh, one last thing, its not surprising they got rid of the changes to the Holy Anger line, as that would of effectively given clerics the same damage output as a RC specced runie! I had no problem with the stun range change though, that would of put them on par with healers and hib casters.

 

[Gimly]

Originally posted by shilak
Lol, cant believe someone is actually complaining that a Thane has more offensive power than a Cleric. FFS, Thanes are a melee/nuker hybrid class and Clerics are a healing class, if Thanes didnt do more damage there would be something seriously wrong!

There was me thinking that Clerics were Healer/nuker hybrid.. they should have at least the same offensive power (nuke wise) as a Thane.

 

[Gekul]

Can you give a reason why as well?

 

[Gimly]

Mainly because you are given a choice of Healer / Caster (Rejuv/Smite) but they dont warn you that if you go Caster you will suck as your damage output is crap. So if you spec smite high you should get somthing that hurts rather than makes the other realms laugh.

That and the fact that a thane has a good mele attack to back up his casting abilities a cleric gets.. oh nothing. Unless he wants to take the rejuv path.

 

[shilak]

Obviously wasnt clear enough ... read the 1.56 release notes if you have any doubt that the cleric is a healing class ...

- The three base healing classes (Clerics, Healers, Druids) now have a new type of healing spell that will help them in heavy battle - particularly RvR - situations. This spell type is called a "Spread Heal".
- Also, a new realm ability is now available to the primary healers in each realm at a 10 realm point cost, called Battery of Life, which is a different variety of spreadheal.

The class which is probably closest class in Midgard to the Cleric is the Shaman, and if we compare the base damage output over a 20s period you will see there is little difference (assuming full smite and cave) ...

Cleric

5 DD for base 176 = 880 base damage

Shaman

6 pulses from DoT for base 87, 1 Bolt for base 232 and 1 DD for 148 = 902 base damage

And of course the Cleric gets a nice DPS buff so will do more melee damage than the Shaman.

As I said before, the one thing the Cleric should of got was a 1500 range on their stun to bring them in line with the Healer, Enchanter, Eldritch and Mentalist.

 

[klavrynd]

Mythics Policy: Nerf Albion

right..... It allways used to be NUUUUURVVV!è!!!!!!! midgard, but then they got boosted just a bit and albs go mental because they're not that uber anymore (we'll just leave hibs out of the discussion since we all know that hibs are the most overpowered)

Let's not forget that now you've got a cloth caster class with mezz immumity and some serious nuking power under the hood

Cleric

5 DD for base 176 = 880 base damage

Shaman

6 pulses from DoT for base 87, 1 Bolt for base 232 and 1 DD for 148 = 902 base damage

280 heals from a shaman : 280 *387 hp = 108360

320 heals from a cleric : 320 * 667 hp = 213440

so cleric heals are at allmost 197% of shaman's whereas damage potential of a shaman (lets not forget bolts are bugged so i should factor this in) 902/880=102.5% of the cleric's

i'm to lazy to look for a smaller gcd

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by klavrynd



Let's not forget that now you've got a cloth caster class with mezz immumity and some serious nuking power under the hood

ahh yes - I forgot you can hit 50 body and 50 mind with 1.0 spec points...

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by shilak
Lol, cant believe someone is actually complaining that a Thane has more offensive power than a Cleric. FFS, Thanes are a melee/nuker hybrid class and Clerics are a healing class, if Thanes didnt do more damage there would be something seriously wrong!

Lol, cant believe someone is actually complaining that a Healer has more crowd control power than a Sorcerer. FFS, Sorcerers are a CC robed caster and Healers are a healing class, if Sorcerers couldn't stun, or use instas there would be something seriously wrong!

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by shilak


As for the Sorcerer, Mythic seem to be going in circles here, they give Healers/Bards instas so they can compete with Sorcerers in the CC arena, then effectively give Sorcerers+group mezz immunity. What next ... castable mezz for healer/bard that ignores resists!

Ahh yes... I forgot 24% reduction = immunity for the entire group.

The sorcerer himself can become immune (still gets interrupted) if he specs 45 in mind - i.e. gives up all damage.

 

[klavrynd]

Lol, cant believe someone is actually complaining that a Healer has more crowd control power than a Sorcerer

+

ahh yes - I forgot you can hit 50 body and 50 mind with 1.0 spec points...

= ah yes i forgot you can hit 50 pac 50 aug/mend with 1x specpoints

 

[old.SadonTheGrey]

I agree with the thane buffs. They needed it

But in return they should loose their shouts.

 

[Flimgoblin]

well done klavrynd, you've demonstrated your complete lack of reading comprehension.

Read the quoted bit...

The quoted fellows point was that a thane as a melee/caster hybrid should be able to nuke far far better than a cleric who is 'just a healer'

where does this place the Healer class in midgard which by that rationale should _also_ be 'just a healer' yet gets better CC than a sorcerer?

But anyway I wasn't whinging about healer vs sorcerer ... I think the improvements so far are a step in the right direction.. I was pointing out the stupidity of the statement.

 

[Tigerius]

Thanes are a 2.0x class, Clerics are a 1.0x class. Hybrid and Caster respectively. As such a caster (normally) gets more for his points spent, as well as actual baseline spells. A fullspec Smite Cleric compared to a fullspec SC Thane isn't a very valid comparison.

We could have the debate who should nuke stronger if both were on 1.0x spec, but seeing as how the Thane gets a shield and a melee line to back up his spells it really shouldn't have to be debated.

Shame they didn't go through with the changes, shame my Druid still walks all over my Cleric.

 

[kain_pravus]

Originally posted by old.SadonTheGrey
I agree with the thane buffs. They needed it

But in return they should lose their shouts.

Your welcome to our AE shout, touch my DD shout and I'll remove your head with a spoon my friend.


Clerics have a 9 sec stun (on a fast casting) as standard, plus healing and realm mate buffing. But I do think their casting speed should be in line with the thanes, but damage wise no, thanes are damage dealers and thats why all our abilities are geared towars that goal, as much damage as possible and nothing else, where as clerics are more fexible even if they spec one way, they still have other options.

oh did I mention 9 sec stun no matter how they spec?

 

[rynnor]

Originally posted by Psy|
Nothing said about the apparent invulnerability of sorcs to all mez/stun at 45 mind (not likely i know but surely that's more overpowering than a 3 second cast dd )

Hmm - not sure how these changes really do much for the Sorcerer - If you were already 45 mind its a bonus but to get Immunity to MEZ/Stun at the cost of really crap damage with your DD's is not that attractive an offer.

Plus it still doesnt help you when you get killed in a coupla blows/dd's to have immunity to Mez...

How many 50 sorcerers do we have still playing on this server - and how many of those have 45 mind?

 

[shilak]

Fingoniel, giving a cleric 3s cast time and 1500 range on their spec DD made them able to nuke as hard as a supp spec runie, hence why Mythic quite rightly chose not to give them that.

The Albs problem is that the Cleric used to be an overpowered class and following a couple of nerfs it is now a slightly underpowered class, but the Albs want an overpowered Cleric again. IMHO, 1500 range on their stun would up them enough to bring them in line without making them overpowered.

Read the VN boards on the Pendragon tests, top Mind selfbuff gives 100% resistance if you have Mind at 50+ (spec+RR+items). Although it is possible that the Sorcerer will be the only person left unmezzed this is unlikely to be the case with the new resist chant. Even in the unlikely event that they are all mezzed, use of Purge and a little intelligent play from the Sorcerer could easily turn the tables.

Oh, yes, Mind Sorcerers vs Pac Healers post 1.59 ...

Both get 5pt power regen.
Sorc get 80s single mezz, Healer get 70s single mezz.
Sorc get 72s 400 area mezz, Healer get 65s 350 area mezz.
Sorc get Quickcast on 30s timer, Healer get insta mezz on 10min timer.
Sorc are immune to mezz given the new buffs, Alb groups are harder to mezz due to new chant.
Sorcs get Amnesia, Confusion and ability to Charm anything.
Healers get Amnesia, Confusion, Root and Stuns.

Seems pretty balanced to me.

Rynnor, it doesnt matter how many Sorcs there are in Alb atm, if people decide that having high Mind spec Sorcs is necessary for RvR post 1.59 then people will level them up for that purpose. You only have to look at the state of Spiritmasters in Mid pre and post PBAOE to see what I mean.

 

[Arnor]

As I said before, the one thing the Cleric should of got was a 1500 range on their stun to bring them in line with the Healer, Enchanter, Eldritch and Mentalist.

and fix the recast timer on the pbaoe-mezz