New Season

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bigfoot

Guest
I'm looking for some ideas about next season, specifically:

1) Thoughts on spreading League across 3 (or more) nights instead of 2.

2) Changes to games, such as:
- lower buytime (30secs vs. 90secs)
- shorter roundtime (4 mins instead of 5)
- team sizes (5v5 instead of 6v6)

3) Using some custom maps.

Feel free to comment on the above, or add your own views on what should be in there.
 
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old.-Insanity-

Guest
1) Thoughts on spreading League across 3 (or more) nights instead of 2.
I'd prefer to spread the league across 2 days, not 3, but since it doesn't really matter to the competeting clans (they only play on one of those 2/3 nights), I think it's up to you guys to decide

2) Changes to games
pausable 1
allow_spectators 1
mp_buytime 0.5
mp_roundtime 4
mp_friendly_grenade_damage 1
mp_friendlyfire 1
mp_c4timer 35
mp_timelimit 20
mp_freezetime 6
mp_forcechasecam 1
mp_maxrounds 0
mp_footsteps 1
mp_flashlight 1
mp_autocrosshair 0
mp_limitteams 0
mp_logfile 1
mp_logmessages 1
mp_autoteambalance 0
mp_autokick 0
mp_tkpunish 0
mp_hostagepenalty 0
sv_aim 0
sv_cheats 0
sv_maxspeed 320
sv_gravity 800
sv_airmove 0
sv_airaccelerate 3
sv_maxrate 9999
sv_clienttrace 1


3) Using some custom maps.
I do not, I repeat: DO NOT want to play on custom maps. As a league I think you should go along with the European standards, which are the following maps:
de_nuke, de_dust, de_train, de_prodigy, de_cobble, de_aztec, cs_militia, cs_italy, de_dust2
 
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old.Slim

Guest
>3 nights?

Doesn't really bother me

>Changes to game

Lower buy time I support strongly! Wouldn't be keen on lower team sizes though. 6v6 is just right.

>Custom maps

I'd like custom maps. There's some great ones around, and it makes a nice change which keeps the games fun. The l33t won't like it though, as we've seen already :)
 
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old.SpinyNorman

Guest

1) Thoughts on spreading League across 3 (or more) nights instead of 2.

Whatever :)


- lower buytime (30secs vs. 90secs)

Most league type ppl use buy scripts anyhow.


- shorter roundtime (4 mins instead of 5)
- team sizes (5v5 instead of 6v6)
5 mins & 6 a side is about right, imho.


3) Using some custom maps.

Yeah go for it :) We're doing this for fun, right? So lets have a bit of variety. Should be interesting as it may sort out teams with good map appraisal/planning/comms from teams that just practice like fook & know the standard maps back to front.

Other game leagues are happy to include a mix of standard & custom maps, I don't see why CS should be excluded.


Spiny
 
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old.Vapor

Guest
Main recommendation - Punkbuster Required - however it is more likely pigs will fly. It does however give clans no grounds for complaining etc. and prevents the petty post match bitching wars.

Reducing the buytime is to prevent re-buying grenades etc. Surely no one takes more than 3 secs to buy stuff at start.

A better course of action is to ban gren spamming (like in Clanbase). Tbh - this does not occur much in BWCSL but I have certainly used the ability on certain maps due to the 90 sec buytime and no rules against it.

6v6 is fine - 99% of clans play this many and most tactics are designed for it.

1 night would be better for most clans than 2 but I can understand due to time, server and admins that 2 is necessary.

[TAA]Vapor
 
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old.gunja99

Guest
Next Season rules

3 nights instead of two? Well I guess that the divisions will still be played on the same night, ie. Div 3 will have all their matches on a Wedneasday, I guess is fine having it over three days if the admins want it that way sounds fine to me!

Buying time reduced to 30 secs from 90? Dont bother me, either way whatever. Also keep the rounds to 5 minutes, thats also standard practice.

6 v 6 MUST stay, do not reduce it to 5 v 5. Every clan should be able to put out 6 players, and thats how most leagues should go.

Stick with the official maps, yeah custom maps are cool, but a lot of people don't play the custom ones. And these are tried and tested maps which make it good for the leagues.

Also PUNKBUSTER, PUNKBUSTER, PUNKBUSTER! We need it, with 80% of players on public servers now using cheats, we miught as well all give in and ALL get the cheats, so we're on the same level again! With the new patch out, it will get rid of them (for a while), but they'll creap in again! I HATE CHEATS. I very nearly quit CS this week because of them on every server I go to. They're everywhere! I know it won't happen, but WHY?? Why doesn't this great piece of software get put out more often. Screenshots can now be taken with it (and it dont affect ping, etc, etc), PLEASE BW get PB on ya servers... You are the original leaders in online gaming, lead people into using PB. Anyone who complains, is a cheat, and they shouldn't even be in a league.
 
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old.drc_lock

Guest
Originally posted by bigfoot
I'm looking for some ideas about next season, specifically:

1) Thoughts on spreading League across 3 (or more) nights instead of 2.

sure if needed to fit more clans in etc.


2) Changes to games, such as:
- lower buytime (30secs vs. 90secs)
- shorter roundtime (4 mins instead of 5)
- team sizes (5v5 instead of 6v6)

no problem with lower buy time
keep it to 5 mins round time imo
keep it at 6v6 imo too

3) Using some custom maps.

ooh yes please, or at least some of the newer less played official maps, like rotterdam. Custom map suggestions: de_torn, de_egypt and *cough*my map*/cough* cs_inc :D


Oh and about screenshots, last season i never saw anyone asked to take any screenies, maybe up the amount of screenshot tests?
 
M

Meatballs

Guest
A shorter buytime helps the attacking team not have to waste all their time waiting out the defending teams grenades for ages, so it is a good idea.

Most rounds do not last for the five minute duration, if CO rules are not going to be used throughout the season, then perhaps the timelimit should be reduced so that if a CT team decides to camp out because they are going to have enuff rounds if they just wait it out, then the rounds they lose will be higher in the time. If CO rules are to be used throughout the season, then I doubt the timelimit will make any difference at all.

I prefer the 2 nights as it is, however if it were to allow a larger amount of clans to play then I would be in favour.

I think most people are happy with the gameplay of 6 players a team. The only reason to lower it is for smaller clans who may struggle to field that many. Look back at last season, if lots of clans were not meeting the 6 players, then perhaps its better to move it down to 5, until clans become more stable/reliable.

I don't think we should use custom maps, the next counter-strike update will be brining some more maps in, some of those can be considered for the list, (swop out militia because its too easy to camp the garage/sewers with hostages), and if they are in the cs update then there are no worries about not having the maps and they will be played, better known, better tactics on them from the publics.
 
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mr_greedy

Guest
1) Thoughts on spreading League across 3 (or more) nights instead of 2.

If this allows expansion of the league to include mroe clans then great. Presumably each Division will be on a regular night so clans still just turn up on their set night every week.

2) Changes to games, such as:
- lower buytime (30secs vs. 90secs)
- shorter roundtime (4 mins instead of 5)
- team sizes (5v5 instead of 6v6)

Keep 6v6 without a doubt. Changing buytime is fine by me, I disagree with grenade spamming - it's basically a loophole in the game dynamic. I can see the point of changing roundtime, but I think it should be left - it's the same for everybody, and we can expect some good showdowns that would otherwise be cut short.

3) Using some custom maps.

It would be good to get some more variety from custom maps - obviously we'd need to be informed well in advance, and if possible the maps should be made available for download on the FTP (just in case).
 
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old.Rogue1

Guest
Shorter buy time makes sense... no more grenade spamming :)

The same goes for shorter rounds, although with aggressor scoring in use, I don't really see many rounds running to the time-limit.

But *please* keep team sizes as 6 rather than 5. Just because the CPL decides that 5 is the ideal size for a Counterstrike team, it doesn't mean that everybody else has to follow suit. 6v6 allows for a far greater degree of tactical flexibility than smaller teams. In all of the games we played last season, neither side had a problem raising 6 players and we (PP) had a few unpleasant moments where we had to tell people who'd shown up expecting a game that there just wasn't room on the team for them.

Custom maps sounds like a good idea. In particular, I'd like to see Assault2k used for league games. Maybe you could even take a chance and throw an as_ map (ie. Oilrig) into the mix, since it'd be interesting to see how this would work with aggressor scoring.

Spreading across three nights might not be a bad idea, particularly if it allows for more clans to compete. With 400 clans on the waiting list and only 48 proposed spaces, it's fairly easy to see that the league needs to expand, although I understand the difficulties you have in getting admins.
 
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old.zog

Guest
My thoughts:

Definitely go for the shortest buy time possible. Grenade spammage just ruins a lot of maps.

6v6 is fine as it is. Like someone above pointed out, most clans are used to it for one thing. I also feel that 5v5 is just too small, personally.

I don't really care about the time limit as long as we have CO scoring. :)

Custom maps would be OK, as long as they're (obviously) reasonably good ones.
 
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bigfoot

Guest
We will be using Charges Only.

Something else to add into the discussion, 20min maps as opposed to 25mins ?
 
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old.Ice-UK

Guest
bwcsl

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
All sounds good bif m8, though ive said that in email0r already,

just be carefull with custom maps.
 
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vuz

Guest
3+ nights imo is better
lower buy time is good
shorted round time, I don't mind
I think team sizes shud stay at 6 vs 6
Custom maps are a good idea (not that I've played any)

And whoever suggested 'pausable 1' I think that means anyone can pause the server by typing pause in the console, which is daft to have as a server config setting
 
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old.-Insanity-

Guest
actually it was me who suggested pause 1
I just copy-pasted those settings from the Clanbase CS Eurocup, which I think every league should use those settings, kind of like a 'European standard'

You know, in the early Q3CTF days there also was a 6v6 vs 5v5 discussion, I'm sure Bigfoot here remembers it :)
Savage (another league) used 6v6 because they wanted to offer something different to the competeting clans.
Eventually the clans forced Savage to adopt the 5v5 setting, because there were a lot of clans who had a hard time adapting to 6v6 in Savage and an hour later had to play 5v5 for BW

I'm sure we (iqs) aren't the only international clan who have joined this league, and I'm sure they all will have a hard time adapting to the 5v5 -> 6v6 setting, that's why I prefer 5v5 :)

my 2 cents



PS. You can find me on #iqs and #iqs.cs QuakeNet, for those who want me to explain things a bit in further detail :)
 
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old.[GT1]Dr_Evil

Guest
Buy time should be 30 to prevent grenade spamming. I much prefer 5 vs 5 but either way you go its going to upset someone.

Custom maps could be OK, as could some old ones like the AS ones.

Number of nights that games are played depends more on admins and servers so cant really say.

I used to favour the CO and timelimit scoring, but now I think that having maxrounds and CO rules would b best. Having this method means that eco rounds are more important and each round is played to a finish rather than having one finish halfway thru.

PunkBuster MUST be used also!
 
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Meatballs

Guest
with punkbuster you can take the random screenshots via the punkbuster system, wivout the player knowing before it is done, and so you can catch out white walls/coloured models etc, and do it much easier. Leave the timelimit as it is :(
 
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old.FugaZi

Guest
Everything seems fine so far. I agree with all suggestions.. buy-time at 30, 6v6 etc. The one thing I would ask is to post the maps you intend to use a couple of weeks in advance. So if a lot of ppl have a problem with a certain map it can be changed.

I am also definately in support of using PB required. Other UK leagues have been known to be very rigid in their refusal to use it. *cough* savage *cough* So it would be nice to see barrysworld prepared to adopt the new technology and show they can be the leaders in the gaming community. New features such as the screenshot option with the latest version of PB should help a lot in deterring cheats. imo even if it didn't get everyone (due to a few hacks that have been developed) it would cut the percentage of cheaters dramatically.

FugaZi
 
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old.-Insanity-

Guest
I still like BW to use a 5v5 format though :)
 
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old.Rogue1

Guest
And I'd still like them to use 6v6.

Like it or not (personally, I like it), 6v6 is how UK leagues have handled CS for a long time now. Given that so few clans seemed to have trouble fielding 6 players last season, sticking with 6v6 makes sense.

And if you're thinking that BW should try to emulate the CPL. With their insistance on 5v5 and their refusal to adopt Chargers Only scoring, the CPL just seem determined to shoot themselves in the foot these days.
 
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old.-Insanity-

Guest
I'm not saying you should try to adopt the CPL rules (MR/5v5), I'm saying you should adopt the European standard (which happens to be CO/5v5)

I think 6v6 will be a barrier for a lot of international clans to enter the Barrysworld leagues, whom have a good reputation among international clans in let's say....Q3, for example.
 
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old.gunja99

Guest
U're joking right?

These poor European/International clans who can't play 6v6? BW should be an 8v8 league that'd be cool! But 6v6 will do fine! It gives us a chance to rotate players, etc, etc, and they get more games.

I don't think changing to 5v5 just because the 'best' clans can't adopt to it, is good enough reason. 6 v 6 is good, and it should stay that way, along with the introduction of Punkbuster. All of our members can now use it, and thats a fair few people! Most clans we have played have been able to get it running in no time. It's the greatest thing to happen to the CS comminity in ages, and the stability of it is getting good. It prolly won't happen this season, but I'd really like PB to be used in the future seasons (ASAP!)

Oh well, please stick to 6 v 6 the more the merrier, and as someone else pointed out, there weren't many teams unable to field a full team last season.

Good luck to all with the upcoming season. BTW when is it gonna start? Anymore information on that?
 
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old.-Insanity-

Guest
once again, I'm not saying 5v5 is better than 6v6 :)

all I'm saying is that it's in the league's best interest to switch to 5v5, because it would mean a lot of french/belgian/dutch clans would play in the league's next season too (as is the case in Q3CTF/Q3DM)
 
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Meatballs

Guest
there are plenty of applicants from the uk as it is that wont be able to get in, theres no point changing rules for europeans as barrysworld is a uk GSP and should cater for the uk first and foremost.

The pausable in Clanbase is so that when people drop etc it can be paused, the league is on a schedule so this would only cause knock on delays...
 
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old.gunja99

Guest
Indeed...

BW is a UK GSP, and should cater for the UK clans first and foremost. I have nothing against the European clans playing, but we shouldn't be changing the rules just so that they can play in more familiar surroundings/settings!

Please keep it 6v6... Us new clans love it! Anyways see ya on the battle field!

Can a list of Divisions be sorted soon, as I wanna know who we're up against, even tho it might be a while b4 the league starts!
 
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old.cpt_ginga

Guest
I think 5v5 would be a better team size, it would cut down clans not turning up due to lack of players. Also it would make games quicker and more fun.

Short round times have the same effect and i think are a good idea.

I can buy my weapons in like 5 seconds anyway so the time for that doesnt bother me =o)

Roar!
 
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old.asdfgh

Guest
spreading over 3 nites..........whatever (long as all matches from a division are played on same nite)

shorter buytime.....whatever

5v5? NO NO NO 6v6 is nice and better (imo) for tactic (both creating and implementing)

custom maps? NAH (again imo) but i v rare play custom maps, as i mainly (well until recently) play on BW server, which dont av em. As to the until recently comment that is because i have been searching out PB servers, would LOVE BW to run PB even if only on league servers, no reason why any clan cant download and run a small program to keep ppl happy :D

[R!F]Soul
 
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old.TestMonkeY

Guest
I think buytime should be shoterned to prevent grenade spam. I think punkbuster should be on to stop the cheats. But most of all you should let my clan in the league!

:clap: www.vision.jolt.co.uk :clap:
 

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