New problem in the gaming world?

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Embattle

Guest
I covered this once myself....it relates to most team games. It esp became a problem when the net got cheaper and then flooded with long term newbies ;)
 
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xane

Guest
I am currently playing World War II Online, I started back in July around one month after the game release, and whilst it was buggy as hell back then it has evolved in leaps and bounds.

If "On the rare occasions you found another 16 or more real team players, the Tribes 2 was like gaming sex", then this game with 2,000+ simultaneous players is a mongolian clusterf*ck.

WWII Online is totally team based, its NOT an RPG, it is twitch play like an FPS, and you often need non-combatant players to get things done.

Infantry move at realistic speed, unless you fancy a 20 minute run to the battle you need a friendly truck driver to get you there, the most powerful gun in the game is the German 88mm, but it can't move out of the garage without someone else pulling on a halftrack.

The sheer volume of players, and the "squad" based organization, means you are never far from a totally immersive coordinated attack.

It is the ultimate team based FPS game.
 
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Embattle

Guest
I loved linking up with a good flyer when in the bomber but often it was a dumbass who crash straight in to the buildings.
 
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mr.Blacky

Guest
Good points no doubt and yes it might be a trouble. However there are things i dont agree with.
First of all it really depends on how you look at the public games. If you want a "perfect" game dont go on the public servers. This is I think very common on most games, there are too few people out there that a) understand that you have too play as a team b) get the way you want to attack/defend. This imo is not really caus off the newbies in a game I have seen new players being better at team work then arrogant "old" players, why caus there are new players that realise that they aren't good, and thought well what can i do to learn the game while the older gamer thought I am good damn the team. Of course I cant really comment on games that have a real dependency on teamwork like T2 (played it not enough).
What I believe the result of all the non team work will be is that FPS CTF will face a grand devide, as is seen today: teamwork and non teamwork (dunno a better title).

OK now for the more positive thoughts. This lack of teamwork will make clan wars more fun. Why? caus a) will be more of it b) caus of less iritations.

The sum of it all you win some you loose some. Just like a match :D
 
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Summo

Guest
Good point, Steiny. This is the first negative thing I've heard about team-play games. I was caught up in the excitement when Day of Defeat 2.0 was released, and in particular the introduction of it new Machine Gunner class, which provides surpressive fire for his/her team-mates and relies on them to donate ammo.

DoD has forced teamwork quite successfully by intoducing 'cap zones' where two or more people must be present round a flag for a period of time to 'cap' it. This means people have to work together to advance and win. Often there's no improvement to the individual's score when such a flag is capped, just the overall team score.

My point is that team play on pubby servers can work, if implemented carefully and wisely.

That said, the best game of DoD I had was beta testing the forthcoming 2.1 release on a server which had most of the DoD development team playing, and some long-term hangers-on. These guys clearly knew what they were doing and it was teamwork all the way. Incredible game.

I forget my point I type so much. :(
 
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Moving Target

Guest
Kinda worked out all the stuff in that column a few months ago.
 
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Embattle

Guest
Originally posted by SomeGuy
DoD has forced teamwork quite successfully by intoducing 'cap zones' where two or more people must be present round a flag for a period of time to 'cap' it. This means people have to work together to advance and win. Often there's no improvement to the individual's score when such a flag is capped, just the overall team score.

My point is that team play on pubby servers can work, if implemented carefully and wisely.
Click to expand...

Tosh.
 
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mr.Blacky

Guest
rofl looked at the thread and lol someone called you mr MT hehe
oh and thats a thread not a collum :p
 
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Summo

Guest
Fair enough, Embeh but with DoD I'd say about 25% of the games I play have little or no evidence of teamwork. They've implemented a good system that seems to work.
 
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Moving Target

Guest
Originally posted by Mr.Blackshirt
rofl looked at the thread and lol someone called you mr MT hehe
oh and thats a thread not a collum :p
Click to expand...

Originally posted by Moving Target
hmm one of T2s main failure points was that it relied too much on teamwork. I mean, come on, there isnt gonna be any teamplay on a public server
Click to expand...
 
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Embattle

Guest
Originally posted by SomeGuy
Fair enough, Embeh but with DoD I'd say about 25% of the games I play have little or no evidence of teamwork. They've implemented a good system that seems to work.
Click to expand...

The system isn't that different from many other games tbh and it doesn't have the effect of improving teamplay....it just means you need to use teamplay to win....although it seems you have been lucky ;)
 
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Summo

Guest
Originally posted by Embattle
it doesn't have the effect of improving teamplay....it just means you need to use teamplay to win
Click to expand...
Taa-daa! There it is! :)
 
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Embattle

Guest
Originally posted by SomeGuy
Taa-daa! There it is! :)
Click to expand...

Taa-daa.....that doesn't mean you get it and in fact you often don't.
 
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ShockingAlberto

Guest
Teamplay is lacking on publics - Whatever the game, sad but true :(

In Q3F, there is a fair amount of team play, however the far more popular TFC rarely involves team play - Allthough playing with the right people changes that. I have to aggree that to some extent large numbers of Newbies is the cause of this problem, however HL has suffered due to the huge amount of lamers that are attracted to it. There are several Myg0t esq clans around for CS now i think :/
 
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Skyler

Guest
I believe that if there is enough incentive for people to teamplay, then they will, as long as they have common sense... Its all about finding players on the same wavelength as you, which usually ends up being a clan... and thus the cycle goes on
 
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Will

Guest
I find team play is still doing ok in the games I play. Counterstrike, team-play on publics is limited to buddy-pairs with a clan-mate, but it's better than nothing. Operation Flashpoint, on the other hand, involves teamwork in every game. Lone wolves don't go out rambo-style, they just get lost in the woods, or dead.
 
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old.[Elrond]

Guest
Originally posted by Embattle


Taa-daa.....that doesn't mean you get it and in fact you often don't.
Click to expand...

then it's up to you to make sure ith appens!

ever heard of [OwP]?
 
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old.D0LLySh33p

Guest
Teamplay enhances the gameplay for most people. I mean, playing on the net is about playing 'with or against' other peeps surely?

Of course, if you want purely singular deathmatch there are other games to play...

Thing is, humans are society based creatures. Teamplay is probably just what comes naturally. That and getting the most frags on your team ;)
 
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Scouse

Guest
If you want a "perfect" game dont go on the public servers.
Click to expand...


I don't like this argument at all. If you go down that road you exclude people who simply haven't got the time to be in a clan/tribe from playing really good teamwork games.

I used to play T1 a lot in a tribe but haven't the time because of work commitments to join a T2 tribe. Does that mean that I and everyone like me have to put up with sh1t team games?

I think more encouragement of teamwork on public servers is the way to go.



Also. I think a lot of you aren't quite sure what teamwork actually is.


Teamwork ISN'T - standing next to your teammate when capping a flag because you have to. DOD hasn't forced "teamwork" - it's just forced close proximity to people on your side. :(

Take Tribes 2 (which I do still play).

Teamwork could be a single heavy mortaring the NME flag area from fucking miles away whilst a bomber clears peripheral turrets - so a capper or two can have a realistic pop at the flag.

These people don't actually have to be near each other.

Teamwork could be a "lone wolf" in heavy armour keeping an nme advanced base down. No-one near.


However, most people think that teamwork in Tribes2 is the ability to jump in a vehicle and simply kill others in mid-field. These people are nothing more than a nuisance to the nme team and certainly do no more to *further the team's objectives*.


A level of teamwork that's useful is the worlds easiest thing to reach. All it requires is you to think before you do any action: "How will what I'm doing help my team reach it's objectives?" or (for the *really* advanced) "Is there a weakness in my team's performance that I can currently fill?"


Sadly - teamplay is sh1t simply because people are too fucking lazy. :(
 
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Furr

Guest
Then you get the people (myg0t) who enjoy destroying teamplay altogether . On wireplay most people would be quite into teamplay and newbies were mostly helped out , it wouldnt be surprising if you ran into the same people on a server as the entire wp cs community was about 900. Then people came along who enjoyed the sheer thrill of blatently cheating and teamkilling , and more people joined the community and more cheaters became regulars . The last weeks if wireplay when the servers still ran but there were no admins , it was not a pretty sight
 
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mr.Blacky

Guest
hmmm aint you making my point now? because people are lazy or new to the game they wont be a teamplayer. Also some people like to go on killing rampage, which is there right:mad:

excluding people..... hope not, what I ment was a public server is not the place to look for a "perfect" game.. I am sorry for people like you but what can be done, you cant force what you want on the reality.
You think more encouragement of teamwork on public servers is the way to go. How? you are talking about public servers.
People have the right to play as they like on public servers.
 
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Scouse

Guest
Mr Blackshirt. I take your point but the fact of the matter is - as the popularity of on-line gaming continues to grow you'll find that the vast majority of people simply don't have the time to join Tribes/Clans.

Encouraging team play on publics? Yes - it's going to be really difficult. The methods that are open to you (presuming you don't want to be an arse and kick all non-templayers) are generally not easily implemented. (Writing high-profile n00b guides, talking to newbies and *showing* them how to play the game, generally encouraging people to change their style of play in a way that makes them more team-aware).

Don't you think it's worth that? Lets face it, online gaming is in its infancy. Do we want to nurture a culture of online team gaming where inconsiderate play is frowned upon by the wider community - so that in the years to come gaming goes from strength to strengh - or do we want to just continue on a path of lame, frustrating games, full of teamkillers and the type of T2 player who's sole objective is to O-snipe a vehicle pad?

I'm not after a perfect game - I just want to avoid moronic ones :)
 
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mr.Blacky

Guest
As I see it you are mentioning 2 things here, and together they are shit. Cant really comment on T2

1) no time for a clan
as you are saying more people are joining the online games. A solution might be join a very large clan so that you dont have be there all the time or form your own clan with people that have the same problem.

2) no teamplay on publice servers
If it was posible how come there is still no real solution for the cheating? (am using this point caus it has been around much longer)
Teaching online. Because there are always gonna be newbies it is impossible to do as you say, instead of enjoying a game or 2 you will become a teacher. Btw its only really possible 1 on1 otherwise you might bother other players.

Me I would love to see that there would be more teamplay on the publics, but also other people have the right to play the way they want to.

Teamkilling has been frowned upon from the start and still it happens!
 
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