Cylian
Can't get enough of FH
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New Frontiers and Animists
- Thread starter Cylian
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Sarumancer
Fledgling Freddie
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First off, its not a LOS abuse, its the snap to points which we've been telling Mythic that theyre BUGGED and BADLY PLACED since they were introduced.
Now, I dont agree with abusing LOS to put things through walls, floors, and places where the animist cant see. But, if the animist is aiming to drop the shroom where the animist can plainly see, then the animist should be able to put it there. NOT some abitrary point, which might in fact be round a corner, or behind a crenellation.
When they fix the bomber (if they ever do), animists might have something to do in keeps, other than their "uber" lifetap and con debuffs. Its also quite funny how many are up in arms screaming los abusing animists, yet there are several movies floating around of people utilising GTAOE in much the same way.
Double standards anyone?
Now, I dont agree with abusing LOS to put things through walls, floors, and places where the animist cant see. But, if the animist is aiming to drop the shroom where the animist can plainly see, then the animist should be able to put it there. NOT some abitrary point, which might in fact be round a corner, or behind a crenellation.
When they fix the bomber (if they ever do), animists might have something to do in keeps, other than their "uber" lifetap and con debuffs. Its also quite funny how many are up in arms screaming los abusing animists, yet there are several movies floating around of people utilising GTAOE in much the same way.
Double standards anyone?
Amelyn
Fledgling Freddie
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Ctuchik
FH is my second home
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Sarumancer said:
yes i see your point. but if you cant see the diffrence between animist F'n'F turrets and a runys GTaoe....
runys/wizard and eldritch GTaoe is on a 20 sec timer (i think) and with limmited use, whilst a animists F'n'F turrets are vastly more powerful in just about any siege.
and i dont really care if that movie doesent show LOS issues or just bugged placing code. its still abusing it. just look at the turrets he placed on first floor INSIDE the tower... he placed the GT inside the wall for crying out loud... and i mean, WHY would any animist place turrets half way up a wall? For the minimal chance that he just MIGHT hit some defender standing on the keep wall, or just because he knows the placing code is bugged and he will have a much bigger chance of hitting resting ppl inside the keep/tower?
Balbor
Fledgling Freddie
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Eroa said:
fu Eroa, Pre SI i was nuke to death by an Enchanter pet while sat in the lords room while the pet was outside. behind the keep.
you clearly know nothing about the game and its many many bugs, passed and present, go read the TL reports, all of them for every class and realm.
Flimgoblin
It's my birthday today!
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Dracus said:Ah yes...but didnt theurgs and cabas do the excact same..and prolly SMs aswell..altho they werent fotm untill PBand mincers and to some extend mentas? hardly an exclusive hib "bug".
[edit]
forgot sorcs
/Dracus
Sm pets can't nuke
Cabalists didn't get their nuking pet till just before or possibly just after the LoS changes were put into effect.
mincer/mentalist/sorcerer pets could do it if you charmed a nuking pet but once it died it died, enchanters just summoned a new one and sent it nuking through the walls.
Enchanters were by far the most hideously annoying thing in the game when it came to keep defence.
Putting turrents on walls in what would be LoS of the Animist is probably an overpowered feature for Hib and the Animist but fair game.
Turrets appearing inside a Tower where there is no window or up on ramparts where the Animist has no chance of getting LoS is just plain crappy.
I have an Animist, I like to play it, however as the code stands in early 1.70 I can understand and agree with Mid / Alb whine. No way should shrooms be spawning inside buildings like they are.
By all accounts I think Mythic have fixed the problem now (over compensating as usual), so hopefully Mids / Albs won't have to deal with this and Hibs (me) won't get whined at 24 x 7.
Turrets appearing inside a Tower where there is no window or up on ramparts where the Animist has no chance of getting LoS is just plain crappy.
I have an Animist, I like to play it, however as the code stands in early 1.70 I can understand and agree with Mid / Alb whine. No way should shrooms be spawning inside buildings like they are.
By all accounts I think Mythic have fixed the problem now (over compensating as usual), so hopefully Mids / Albs won't have to deal with this and Hibs (me) won't get whined at 24 x 7.
Aye, although Necros were pretty frustrating for a short while before they were fixed also.Flimgoblin said:
Cylian
Can't get enough of FH
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Dracus said:Ah yes...but didnt theurgs and cabas do the excact same..and prolly SMs aswell..altho they werent fotm untill PB
[edit]
forgot sorcs
/Dracus
that's the funny part, the 'spirits' SMs summoned were like the only pets that couldn't just run through a closed door at some point.
Balbor
Fledgling Freddie
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Dracus said:Ah yes...but didnt theurgs and cabas do the excact same..and prolly SMs aswell..altho they werent fotm untill PB
[edit]
forgot sorcs
/Dracus
was a Mob bug as even in PvE aggroed mobs would nuke through wall such as in burrows. When it first happened to me Cabalists pets didn't have there ranged DD
Tuppe
Fledgling Freddie
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hmm must agree,enchanter pets was killer old days, you needed run totally other side keep to pull pet inside so, if there was? other could kill pet.
but animist indeed have rised alott noise in NF, if its working like many write? need badly somekind tweak.
but animist indeed have rised alott noise in NF, if its working like many write? need badly somekind tweak.
Sarumancer
Fledgling Freddie
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No, I quite happily agree that Animists SHOULDNT be able to pull that kind of exploit.
I do think, however, we should be able to pop shrooms in through arrow slits, up onto crenelations and put the shrooms anywhere we can legitimately see. Snap points need fixed, pet pathing needs fixed (for all realms!), bomber pathing definitely needs worked on.
I can understand the Alb/Mid viewpoint against animists, played right/properly they can be an unholy pain in the ass. But they are completely situational, in open field rvr, they dont bring a lot to the table. Yes they can backload several bombers, but the bombers can be cc'd, take two to three times the casting time of a dd and drain power when launched. They also tend to get stuck on any blade of grass thats feeling particularly uppity. The lifetap is underspecced and there is -no- level 50 damage output.
Nerf out the shrooms, bombers dont work and that leave an animist with oh yeah, con debuff and lowspec lifetap to work with. Not exactly fun eh. I dont object to nerfs and changes, but we should be getting something for something.
Hell, what if effects from the Animist passed to all their shrooms, buffs on teh animist enhanced shrooms (a little!!), but anything negative also transferred. Mez, stun, nearsight, dot, confuse, lulla, etc lands on the Animist all the turrets that animist has up also get the effect. Thats an example of a something for something change that hurts that makes the animist/shrooms more vunerable yet improves something else as a counter.
They really do need to look at the server side code for Fnf turret targetting, and they need to fix "vaporisation", which occurs when only one target comes into range of a cluster of shrooms and all target and fire at once. One sensible fix would be to limit the number of shrooms that can pick one target and occlude that target from selection after say 5 shrooms have picked up on it. 5 shrooms spitting 120 damage every 4 seconds is still a lot less than what a caster can dish out in the same time period.
Either that or Albs + Mids need to realise that to deal with shroom clusters, they simply need to provide enough targets for the shrooms to latch onto to spread the damage. A solo sorc or healer running up will get targetted and vaporised in a hurry (kind of like a solo player running into a caster group will go boom), but if the Sorc brings up the rest of his group, he'll be able to get closer. Hell if the Sorc/Healer puts his group up there first, he wont even be interrupted, a theurgy could throw pets past the shrooms as a distraction, or mincers put a pet up there to take the hits. Once an FNF has a target theyll stick with it, put a pet up there, get it targetted, get it out of range (alive), then wander up to the shrooms that are still trying to kill that target and obliterate them. Theyre the equivalent of bluecons with neligable hit points.
I do think, however, we should be able to pop shrooms in through arrow slits, up onto crenelations and put the shrooms anywhere we can legitimately see. Snap points need fixed, pet pathing needs fixed (for all realms!), bomber pathing definitely needs worked on.
I can understand the Alb/Mid viewpoint against animists, played right/properly they can be an unholy pain in the ass. But they are completely situational, in open field rvr, they dont bring a lot to the table. Yes they can backload several bombers, but the bombers can be cc'd, take two to three times the casting time of a dd and drain power when launched. They also tend to get stuck on any blade of grass thats feeling particularly uppity. The lifetap is underspecced and there is -no- level 50 damage output.
Nerf out the shrooms, bombers dont work and that leave an animist with oh yeah, con debuff and lowspec lifetap to work with. Not exactly fun eh. I dont object to nerfs and changes, but we should be getting something for something.
Hell, what if effects from the Animist passed to all their shrooms, buffs on teh animist enhanced shrooms (a little!!), but anything negative also transferred. Mez, stun, nearsight, dot, confuse, lulla, etc lands on the Animist all the turrets that animist has up also get the effect. Thats an example of a something for something change that hurts that makes the animist/shrooms more vunerable yet improves something else as a counter.
They really do need to look at the server side code for Fnf turret targetting, and they need to fix "vaporisation", which occurs when only one target comes into range of a cluster of shrooms and all target and fire at once. One sensible fix would be to limit the number of shrooms that can pick one target and occlude that target from selection after say 5 shrooms have picked up on it. 5 shrooms spitting 120 damage every 4 seconds is still a lot less than what a caster can dish out in the same time period.
Either that or Albs + Mids need to realise that to deal with shroom clusters, they simply need to provide enough targets for the shrooms to latch onto to spread the damage. A solo sorc or healer running up will get targetted and vaporised in a hurry (kind of like a solo player running into a caster group will go boom), but if the Sorc brings up the rest of his group, he'll be able to get closer. Hell if the Sorc/Healer puts his group up there first, he wont even be interrupted, a theurgy could throw pets past the shrooms as a distraction, or mincers put a pet up there to take the hits. Once an FNF has a target theyll stick with it, put a pet up there, get it targetted, get it out of range (alive), then wander up to the shrooms that are still trying to kill that target and obliterate them. Theyre the equivalent of bluecons with neligable hit points.
Balbor
Fledgling Freddie
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i'd like to see a stop to putting lots of shrooms on top of each other, effectiflly it places thoughs at the bottlem of the pile invisible and untargetable with circeling through targets with the F keys, or using AOE asttacks.
I know that this would increase casting time as Animist would have to reset there GT so just have the shroom pop next to it
I know that this would increase casting time as Animist would have to reset there GT so just have the shroom pop next to it
Leleith
Fledgling Freddie
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Are we talking broken line of sight and abuse of the same, necros has to be mentioned.Afuldan said:
Its fixed now. But back in the days, necros could simply place the pet inside a keep, port out, target and nuke the living crap out of anything within range. Without any chance of retaliation. Chanters nuking pets worked the same if my memory serves me.
But ofcourse, you shouldnt be able to set/send pets on spots/people you cant see. That should work the same for all pet classes. Imo, pets shouldnt even go to attack people the owner or the pet itself cant see (ie when getting hit by gtae or pbae or whatever)
I wouldnt worry too much though. When mythic sees this bug, they will fix it before we get it. Either in an upcoming patch, or in a hotfix. Think they learnt atleast THAT much from their past mistakes with LOS bugs.
Sarumancer
Fledgling Freddie
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Balbor.
Gtaoe, problem solved.
As for all standing in one pile, well goodness, nothing to stop casters doing that and pbaoe teaches people to spread em out.
Oh add in area effect stuns and mezzes and the animist is doing you a favour stacking them.
Gtaoe, problem solved.
As for all standing in one pile, well goodness, nothing to stop casters doing that and pbaoe teaches people to spread em out.
Oh add in area effect stuns and mezzes and the animist is doing you a favour stacking them.
Morchaoron
Fledgling Freddie
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animist, bondancer and necromancer... whoever designed them should be strangled anyway...
Kreig
One of Freddy's beloved
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Who cares if Animists will be over powered with bugged pets on NF keeps, ppl arent stupid (well most) after a few rounds of "Oh look hibs have a keep". No one in there right mind would bother attacking , every one gets bored and wandereds off to do something better, Hibs get bored and come out.
Trying to get any ppl that abuse such exploits banned would probley be far to much hard work knowing how retarded GOA are, when far more serious things have gone by the wayside.
Trying to get any ppl that abuse such exploits banned would probley be far to much hard work knowing how retarded GOA are, when far more serious things have gone by the wayside.
Sarumancer said:
GTAOE is meant to be used without LOS, placing pets isnt?
Besides what is the use of GTAOE when you need LOS? It is a spell that you drop from above, basically you just say i want at that spot in air something to drop down and isnt GTAOE impossible now when there is a roof?
and Kreig if Hibs can force keep fights to be dull than the whole point of NF is kinda mute as it is made for keep fights to be nicer. So now animists can force people to give up defending/attacking a keep, wouldnt the old RvR be better or a nerf/fix of animist is needed.