New armsman TL - first report

[bracken_woodman]

For what it's worth, armsmen have a new TL and here's his new report.... it could have been written any time during the past year as all the things he (correctly) points out have been mentioned time and time again by the previous TL:

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=50705155&replies=0

 

[stupidshady]

OLD !!! =)

for the peeps who dont check it sure do, seems the new tl does know what he's doing

 

[old.LandShark]

Uh, they've all known what they were doing. Until armsmen are doing really badly they won't get any real help.... it's just too risky to change things that people aren't actively quitting over :>

 

[Stormm]

"Side note: There are many other things that rob Armsman some of which are DD’s that mercs use and pally taunt chants to not only kill steal in RvR but attract and hold agro in PvE. In places like DF, the group holding aggro or getting the aggro just before the mob dies gets the loot. This is kind of a disheartening black whole that most don’t think about as well. Where is our battle cry DD ???? Of all the things you think a true soldier class should have is a battle cry. "

is that true - my pala is left holding the agro 90% of the time in pulls in df but always gets the least amount of seal drops... pisses me of a bit tbh

and rvr isnt the kill asigned to the geezer that dose the most damage?

 

[pez]

i thought it was assigned to the one who got the killer blow in

 

[Draylor]

Originally posted by bracken_woodman
.... it could have been written any time during the past year as all the things he (correctly) points out have been mentioned time and time again by the previous TL

Which is exactly that report as it stands is a complete waste of space.

The only point he makes well that has ANY chance of having something done about it is the section on Soldiers Barricade. And for that one we're in the queue with the other 50% of classes in the game with a useless class specific RA.

But its all been said (in a far better way) in previous TL reports - and we all saw the result that had.

Asking for an insta DD to be able to "leech" is a complete joke - much like the rest of this report.

 

[-ag-bometal]

Givf Paladin TL !

our hit points are below that of most light tanks. Ever since the Pally’s had their hp’s raised we have fallen out of favor.

Since when do armsmens have less HP then paladins ?

Paladins have highest con in game and still way to low hit points imo :/

 

[Powahhh]

Originally posted by -ag-bometal
Givf Paladin TL !



Since when do armsmens have less HP then paladins ?

Paladins have highest con in game and still way to low hit points imo :/

armsman takes more life / per con point than palas
and i think it is ok
we can't do nothing lets us have more hps:/ to survive a bit more uke:

 

[Powahhh]

about the tl report

i do not think that really give something usefull
i do not jdge hard though cause this is his first tl report...but if all his reports look like this one i prefer not to see a tl report for arms again.....like with schifrm (or whatever his nick spelled)

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Stormm
is that true - my pala is left holding the agro 90% of the time in pulls in df but always gets the least amount of seal drops... pisses me of a bit tbh

Drop distribution within a group is totally random and has nothing to do with who held the aggro or who did the most damage -- you think support chars would like the scheme otherwise? As for you observing that you get the least amount of seal drops, that is no doubt your imagination -- it all evens out.

and rvr isnt the kill asigned to the geezer that dose the most damage?

The deathmessage is given to whoever deals the killing blow, but the RPs are distributed according to the one who did the most damage (note that everyone in a single group again get the same amount of RPs, so this is only valid if you have two people solo or in different groups competing for the RPs).

 

[Belomar]

From the TL report:
Most casters have 1200 to 1400 hp’s and that takes us 50 seconds to kill the caster with no endurance while that same caster can take me out in 5 to 8 seconds.

HAHAHAHAHA! Good one. The only thing that can take out the 2k x 2 hps of an armsman in 8 seconds would be a self-debuffing enchanter.

 

[Cala-more]

Originally posted by Stormm
is that true - my pala is left holding the agro 90% of the time in pulls in df but always gets the least amount of seal drops... pisses me of a bit tbh

and rvr isnt the kill asigned to the geezer that dose the most damage?

I found this funny also

 

[old.Zeikerd]

Originally posted by Belomar
HAHAHAHAHA! Good one. The only thing that can take out the 2k x 2 hps of an armsman in 8 seconds would be a self-debuffing enchanter.

Chanters dont need to kill the 2 x the hps of an armsman, because they can stun making the IP worthless.

 

[stupidshady]

if I meet an enchanter in rvr and purge isnt on I'm done for

 

[Kagato.]

Its all utterly worthless anyway.

The LAST TL was just as good as this TL as was the one before him and the one before that, and they ALL said exactly the same thing, the only reason the last TL left was because Mythic told him effectively to just stfu cause there not going to do ANYTHING about armsman, not now, not tomorrow, not ever. THATS why he quit, so everything this TL says is pointless, mythic know it already, and they don't care. There just having a TL there for appearances sake.

 

[vindicat0r]

Yes, they must at least try to pretend they care about arms but secretly they are justing thinking of ways to make pallys even better than arms even more so.

I have suggestions for arms but when I tell them to my brothers they say f off and no way but sure why dont u tell me if I am crazy then

1) To help in RvR more means u take less dmg or have more HP so,

Possible Solution:

Increase HP's with buffs only < for grps sake ofc >
Increase Plate absorb < making pallys better as well >

2) The problem of double speccing hits armsmen the hardest tbh, most pallys are s/s as they are supposed to be , which leaves armsmen HAVING to double spec to get equal dmg to ther opposite realm counter parts.

Possible Solution:

Give armsmen an Insta-shout called Battle Rage or Cry < whichever>

Basically its at say 500 range so u must be basically in mele range and it stuns for 9 secs, it is not like a minstrel shout it is a mele stun shout for 9 secs. On say a 30 sec recast timer to allow it to be used effectively. Once this shout is used u cannot slam to get a longer stun or indeed a minstrel insta shout. immunity is still granted when used on a player.

This is wher my brothers told me to stfu and f off no way but they didnt stop to think about what it offers and how it is limited also.

Basically if an armsman has this Battle Cry then he doesnt need to spec for shield so he can go full 2h/pole and not suffer from duel speccing but other mele'ers in the realm still have to, hence armsman love.

Now this is at 500 range which is god damn close so its not like u can just use it anytime and on 30 sec timer use it wisely as fights usually are over by that time.

Make this a natural ablility arms get and adjust it per lvl with the various stuns u can get on speccing shield from 1-50.

e.g at lvl 23 arms get 5 sec Battle Cry. etc etc.

3) Armsmen run out of endurance so fast once its gone ther pretty useless and as pallys who give end are usually protecting ur casters and not near u < 1000 range on end chant > u are v often in the middle of the enemy grp with 0 end chasing a sprinting bard : /

Possible Solution:

As most of u know ther are 2 bars below ur HP bar, 1 for power and 1 for end. Make the arms man have 2 end bars or just increase the end pool alot.

< I am aware the TL suggests something like that >


4) Armsmen suffer some v slow swing times in RvR as u all know , now while we may hit hard < sometimes :X> we dont always and sometimes it's just not enough and as primary tank we shud be albe to produce some great dmg.

Possible Solution:

This is similar to the Battle Cry Idea, An ability either RA or skill not sure that allows an armsman to convert ALL of his own AF for weap.skill + weap.dmg....... Letting him hit for lots of dmg but leaving him with 0 af. Now the tank beating on ur caster sees u are defence less and might actually turn to hit u instead of sticking on that caster and poor caster gets raped. Sure it would mean u would take massive dmg back but as main tank ur supposed to get whack'd alot.

There would be to be some animation to others know u have used this skill / RA ..... so make the arms using it Glow Golden all over and perhaps an angel or pair of wings above his head.

RA/skill name : Gift from the heavens , Wings of Death, Sacrifice something like that etc etc.



Now I am not saying arms shud get all of these abilities or indeed any but I think arms have been left behind in comparasion to other class'es and they need some attention. by all means plz comment on my idea's suggetions but no need to flame or say : stfu man ur ideas suck cox etc etc ...... my brothers said shit like that enough to me :/

Constructive critism + other suggestions welcome

 

[Gorbash]

personally i DO thing armsmen should be able to wield any type of weapon they want to, thats what the definition of an armsman is :/.

instead of having a 2h spec, a pole spec etc etc etc, just remove those lines and allow them to spec in a single damage type (thrust, crush, slash), and any weapon associated with that damage type, they can use. to limit the use of this at low levels, the ability to wield differnt types of weapons should be given at different levels, similar to when different levels of armour are granted. This method would also account for the class still being the only class in the realm that can still wield a polearm.

perhaps even a specline called 'Advanced Tactics' which increases the armsmans damage output/ swing speed on higher weapons across the board, and could also come with its own style line.

the armsmen would then be torn between speccing other (shield)speclines, as all classes have

thoughts?

 

[Kagato.]

Vindicator - The instant ability is a reasonable idea but what I would suggest is giving them an actual instant freebie melee attack style that does not require endurance, basically the style will be just a normal hit, no or little bonus damage but with the 9 sec stun on that you suggest and its instant, however like any other style it will be subject to being blocked/evaded etc and be on say a 3 minute timer or higher.

The advantage to this is that the armsman could trigger it anytime during a fight inbetween his usual swing times, allowing him to whack a caster to break pbt then hit the free style. Albeit he could only do this once till the timer comes round again like any other timered ability, and not needed endurance it would give him some form of defense when end is out. Also the style would scale with whatever weapon type the armsman uses so polers would do more damage with it then defensive spec.

If Mythic wanted to they could advance the ability with level, so at 15 maybe it would be low bonuses to hit/damage at 30 medium bonuses and at 40 high bonuses.

Just some constructive thoughts, don't flame to hard.

 

[Fagane]

In a full group there is 90% chance the armsmen are still standing while the party is dead in a RvR situation. Reason why?

f8-stick-f6

All an armsmen does, does he put protect, itercept up? no becouse he could actualy be usefull to the casters. 90% of the armsmen do not even know that they are not the main damamge dealers in a group. Sure you do nice dammage and will get easy a few killing blows in.

But I see 90% of the armsmen running like a chicken straight into a group, start to f8 attack stuff and then are angry when pbt-healing, etc drops.

Armsmen are fine, I know a lot of broken classes, and I know the armsmen is one of the least broken ones. Yes they are not perfect jet, but in case 90% of the armsmen players have as much brains as an egg you can see indeed a lot of useless armsmen.

Fagane

 

[Treniel-]

Drop distribution within a group is totally random and has nothing to do with who held the aggro or who did the most damage -- you think support chars would like the scheme otherwise? As for you observing that you get the least amount of seal drops, that is no doubt your imagination -- it all evens out.

It doesn't.

and Kagato is right armsman TL just gets ignored over and over bloody mythic sum1 kill them

 

[Ekydus]

No. The TL does not know what he is doing. Do not trust a TL who can't even spot the difference between a "hole" and "whole".
As for you Armsmen, for shame on you. You are asking for magical skills and shouts of which come from the form of a hybrid character. Paladins are meant to have higher AF... we don't waste 48 in chants for nothing you idiots. Oh you're right i'm wrong, eh? Well let's put it this way: If we didn't waste spec points in chants we'd be able to go 50 slash/ 50 shield and high parry, making us essentially Armsmen.
Armsmen are defined as pure tanks. They have no immediate special skills and are most certainly not meant to have any aggro shouts. If you still think that you deserve an aggro shout after what I have said, well then you've picked the wrong character. Instead why not do something about your aggro tool - the crossbow. Personally if I was an Armsman i'd be asking for something a lot more realistic and to the background of the character itself. Instead of asking for shouts and such which completely go against what the Armsman is and stands for, ask if you can have poison put on the end of your Polearms instead. This is a lot more sensible and chances are an idea closer to home such as this can be refined and maybe some day implemented.

 

[quinthar]

Originally posted by Fagane
Armsmen are fine, I know a lot of broken classes, and I know the armsmen is one of the least broken ones. Yes they are not perfect jet, but in case 90% of the armsmen players have as much brains as an egg you can see indeed a lot of useless armsmen.

Fagane

Erm "Least broken classess"?

Having to spec in Polearm and style for a class that can wield the most weapons is not broken?

Armsman are pure tanks, giving them magic would ruin the class making them what they should be (being able to use 1H 2H and Pole + 1 style should be the norm) would cause an uproar, so, what do you have the purest form of melee in the entire game that hits for shit if they have a shield or has the defensive/protective capability of a plastic bag when they have a pole.

Gah give me a break ...

People that make statements saying were fine have about as much IQ as a leaking stool sample.

Now, I play my characters to the best of my capabilities, am I a long way down the food chain as far as dmg is concerned.

 

[Kagato.]

Originally posted by Ekydus
No. The TL does not know what he is doing. Do not trust a TL who can't even spot the difference between a "hole" and "whole".
As for you Armsmen, for shame on you. You are asking for magical skills and shouts of which come from the form of a hybrid character. Paladins are meant to have higher AF... we don't waste 48 in chants for nothing you idiots. Oh you're right i'm wrong, eh? Well let's put it this way: If we didn't waste spec points in chants we'd be able to go 50 slash/ 50 shield and high parry, making us essentially Armsmen.
Armsmen are defined as pure tanks. They have no immediate special skills and are most certainly not meant to have any aggro shouts. If you still think that you deserve an aggro shout after what I have said, well then you've picked the wrong character. Instead why not do something about your aggro tool - the crossbow. Personally if I was an Armsman i'd be asking for something a lot more realistic and to the background of the character itself. Instead of asking for shouts and such which completely go against what the Armsman is and stands for, ask if you can have poison put on the end of your Polearms instead. This is a lot more sensible and chances are an idea closer to home such as this can be refined and maybe some day implemented.

Hence exactly why I asked for a melee combat STYLE not a shout. theres a reason armsman have no power bar, its because we shun all magic to concentrate on melee ability, for which we are not getting enough reward. A shout or whatever simply would not make sense but a combat style we could use anytime in melee range with no end cost would make sense, and it would be subject to being blocked/parried etc so it would not be to powerful.

 

[belth]

They made snares from styles breakable because unbreakable styled snares made PF useless. Same thing would happen with a style that uses no end and has a stun.

 

[vindicat0r]

Originally posted by Fagane
In a full group there is 90% chance the armsmen are still standing while the party is dead in a RvR situation. Reason why?

f8-stick-f6

All an armsmen does, does he put protect, itercept up? no becouse he could actualy be usefull to the casters. 90% of the armsmen do not even know that they are not the main damamge dealers in a group. Sure you do nice dammage and will get easy a few killing blows in.

But I see 90% of the armsmen running like a chicken straight into a group, start to f8 attack stuff and then are angry when pbt-healing, etc drops.

Armsmen are fine, I know a lot of broken classes, and I know the armsmen is one of the least broken ones. Yes they are not perfect jet, but in case 90% of the armsmen players have as much brains as an egg you can see indeed a lot of useless armsmen.

Fagane

So you watched a couple of n00b RR2 tincans zerging in emain and you know its down to player skill that makes armsmen bad?

You sir are full of shit and u talk bollox. The worst part is, if u have a lvl 50 arms then my god shame on you, probably why you dont play them anymore and if u dont have a lvl 50 arms then dont make assumptions and insult the ppl that play that charc.

Also I find your statement "armsmen running like a chicken into a fg" LOL ? theres only 2 things u can call the armsman that does this

1) stupid m0f0
2) Primary Tank trying to kill the CC/support

A chicken arms as u say would run off out of view and come back only if his grp was winning.

Think before u post.

 

[Kagato.]

Originally posted by vindicat0r
So you watched a couple of n00b RR2 tincans zerging in emain and you know its down to player skill that makes armsmen bad?

You sir are full of shit and u talk bollox. The worst part is, if u have a lvl 50 arms then my god shame on you, probably why you dont play them anymore and if u dont have a lvl 50 arms then dont make assumptions and insult the ppl that play that charc.

Also I find your statement "armsmen running like a chicken into a fg" LOL ? theres only 2 things u can call the armsman that does this

1) stupid m0f0
2) Primary Tank trying to kill the CC/support

A chicken arms as u say would run off out of view and come back only if his grp was winning.

Think before u post.

2) As an offensive armsman thats EXACTLY what I do and precisely what im expected to do, make a bee line straight for the enemy CC/Support classes. Shouldn't assume that anyone charging into an enemy group is just another F8 monkey, some people, yes even tanks, CAN recognise enemy classes and no which healers/casters to go for to do most damage.

 

[Ekydus]

And just like a Bee you die after you leave your sting. Isn't RvR just so fun.

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Ekydus
for you Armsmen, for shame on you. You are asking for magical skills and shouts of which come from the form of a hybrid character. Paladins are meant to have higher AF... we don't waste 48 in chants for nothing you idiots.

Don't be so aggressive, Ekydus. Your class has received quite a lot of love the late few patches, where armsmen have only been granted the general tank love, no specifics at all. So stop the stupid name-calling, please. Oh, and you should be happy that paladins, who are essentially hybrids, still get the 2x skill points of tanks instead of the normal 1.5x of hybrids.