Netherlands rules!

[rynnor]

...at Numeracy anyway says the OECD survey 1st out of 24 western countries.

I just wondered if there was anything we could learn about how you teach maths over there - do you separate kids into different ability groups for example?

 

[soze]

At my school we were. The top form which I was only in for 2 terms actually taught you maths. I got moved down to "middle math" because I was bad a science. And in "middle maths" for the next 4 years we just read our text book, or didn't it really depended on how you felt. 4 different teachers did not care about our class. And because of this I lost all enthusiasm about a subject that was easily my favorite during the first two terms.

 

[Gwadien]

...at Numeracy anyway says the OECD survey 1st out of 24 western countries.

I just wondered if there was anything we could learn about how you teach maths over there - do you separate kids into different ability groups for example?

Well, behavior and ability, IMO.

Link teachers together with kids that can handle harder classes etc, and get more out of them, don't just put all the clever but disruptive kids in with those that want to succeed, 'cos then you'll bring them down.

There was a kid at my school in year 7 who was doing Pythagoras theorem in his head, he was Polish, so they automatically put him in the bottom maths group, took them a year to put him in a higher group.

 

[DaGaffer]

Well, behavior and ability, IMO. Link teachers together with kids that can handle harder classes etc, and get more out of them, don't just put all the clever but disruptive kids in with those that want to succeed, 'cos then you'll bring them down. There was a kid at my school in year 7 who was doing Pythagoras theorem in his head, he was Polish, so they automatically put him in the bottom maths group, took them a year to put him in a higher group.

Pythagoras in your head is a piece of piss.

 

[Gwadien]

Pythagoras in your head is a piece of piss.

at 11/2? Mind you he was in a group of kids that couldn't spell their own name.

 

[Aoami]

Maths is such a weird subject. I had a really good discussion about it with a professor whilst on my travels. I wasn't very good at maths at school. I scraped a C in my GCSE, I was uninterested in classes and found (certain things) very difficult. However I LOVED physics. The idea of learning maths with no application - just learn how to solve these equations - did not appeal to me. I didn't understand why it needed to be solved, so I couldn't solve it. Certain branches of maths I found of some interest, such as Statistics, because I could sort of see a point to it (ironic I suppose, as the validity of statistics is so often discussed). Applied mathematics, however, I found extremely interesting and always did really well in.

My mother is a maths teacher and spent hours trying to convince me that pure mathematics was useful and relevant, but I felt that with a good grasp of mental arithmetic (something I was strong at from a fairly early age), why did I need to carry on doing maths to learn how to solve a quadratic equation or a matrix?

 

[Aoami]

at 11/2? Mind you he was in a group of kids that couldn't spell their own name.

We did pythagorian triplets in year 7, and I bet that 20 years before that most kids did it long before they went to secondary school.

 

[rynnor]

Remember when they talk about numeracy they are really focused on arithmetic not the more obscure bits.

Its interesting that we havent really lost ability so much as other countries have improved while we stood still.

I think education is too much of a political football over here - we also start kids too early into formalised classes which all the stats argue against.

 

[DaGaffer]

at 11/2? Mind you he was in a group of kids that couldn't spell their own name.

If you can do a square root in your head (which I learned how to do when I was 8-ish) you can do Pythagoras. Simultaneous Linear Equations in your head, now that's impressive - it is possible but I could never keep track of everything.

Maths is such a weird subject. I had a really good discussion about it with a professor whilst on my travels. I wasn't very good at maths at school. I scraped a C in my GCSE, I was uninterested in classes and found (certain things) very difficult. However I LOVED physics. The idea of learning maths with no application - just learn how to solve these equations - did not appeal to me. I didn't understand why it needed to be solved, so I couldn't solve it. Certain branches of maths I found of some interest, such as Statistics, because I could sort of see a point to it (ironic I suppose, as the validity of statistics is so often discussed). Applied mathematics, however, I found extremely interesting and always did really well in.

My mother is a maths teacher and spent hours trying to convince me that pure mathematics was useful and relevant, but I felt that with a good grasp of mental arithmetic (something I was strong at from a fairly early age), why did I need to carry on doing maths to learn how to solve a quadratic equation or a matrix?

This, pretty much. I was good at maths until I got to algebra, and I couldn't see the application of it (and Mr. Jones, my Brummie maths teacher, was a cunt), I got through my exams but it was only when I went to college that its uses sunk in, and even then I still struggled. I was also strangely erratic about maths as well; breezed through trig, dire at algebra, good at stats (until I got to the bits that needed algebra).

 

[fettoken]

Misread as "Neanderthals rules!"

 

[Gwadien]

If you can do a square root in your head (which I learned how to do when I was 8-ish) you can do Pythagoras. Simultaneous Linear Equations in your head, now that's impressive - it is possible but I could never keep track of everything.

So you're basically telling me that our education has got so bad that kids are now trying to do their 7-8-9 times tables at 9 and you were doing square roots at 8?

 

[rynnor]

Misread as "Neanderthals rules!"

Are you talking about Teeds?

 

[Chilly]

So you're basically telling me that our education has got so bad that kids are now trying to do their 7-8-9 times tables at 9 and you were doing square roots at 8?

Education has changed. Just because you learn Pythagoras later does not automatically mean your education is worse. However, in this case it probably is

 

[DaGaffer]

So you're basically telling me that our education has got so bad that kids are now trying to do their 7-8-9 times tables at 9 and you were doing square roots at 8?

I suppose so. I'd definitely done my multiplication tables (up to 13) waaaay before I was 9. I can literally remember the first time I did square roots for homework - because I got cocky and I completely fucked it up, and I'd never done that before. I was mortified.

 

[fettoken]

Are you talking about Teeds?

Id never.

 

[Scouse]

kids are now trying to do their 7-8-9 times tables at 9

They're not, are they? Not really?

You do all your times tables when you're like 6, don't you?

multiplication tables (up to 13)

Yep. Dunno why they stop at 13 but for some reason I thought at the time you'd do up to 12, but 13's like "one extra" that schools do, or something.

Either way - I could recite them all before I was 7 and name the 20 biggest world capitals and a load of other random guff. I'd like to say it was worthless but it wasn't - having shit in your head and not having to google it makes loads of other stuff really easy.

 

[Raven]

According to Pointless 61 out of 100 didn't know that Waterloo was Napoleons final battle.

 

[Gwadien]

According to Pointless 61 out of 100 didn't know that Waterloo was Napoleons final battle.

I saw something like 15/100 said Romeo and Juliet was a Shakespeare play, that was funny.

 

[Embattle]

Like a couple of others I was very good at maths, in junior school we had these books that got harder and harder which were defined by the colour and I was second to only one person with both of us well ahead of others in the school but come secondary school I ended up hating maths because of algebra and at that time I saw it as pointless and even said so in class.

 

[TdC]

the only thing I was every really good at was trigonometry. it was the only aspect of TEH MATHZ in all the entry level maths, physics and chemistry I had that ever made sense to me, and I theorize that this is because we got the whole thing explained to us, rather than a portion of the science.

although I loved Trig, the first time I *ever* used it in anger was when I wrote a Pong game clone for teh skoolz 3 years ago. I used Trig functions to work out the angles by which my "ball" would strike paddles, walls and other obstacles so I could apply spin, speed effects or a combination thereof. For some reason my fellow students were in awe of me knowing how to do this. Come to think of it, I was in awe of myself considering how much booze and drug use lie between me learning Trig and me learning Java 0o

the other thing I was good at was chemistry, but sadly the good scores for specific maths tests and certain chemistry tests was not good enough to keep el teed in school when he was 18 which is why I'm giving it another shot 20 years on o0

 

[Billargh]

I suppose so. I'd definitely done my multiplication tables (up to 13) waaaay before I was 9. I can literally remember the first time I did square roots for homework - because I got cocky and I completely fucked it up, and I'd never done that before. I was mortified.

When I was like 7-8 I remember writing up all the times tables up to 12 while my cousin was badgering me to play on Streets of Rage or some shit, I refused cause I wanted to be the first in the year to get the certificate for completing the times tables

 

[Job]

Just what we need..numeracy skills when you can type algebra into the google search box and and everyones got acomputer in their pocket.

 

[Ormorof]

the point isn't always simply getting an answer, a lot of maths & science in school is intended to teach kids how to problem solve which is a rather useful skill

 

[DaGaffer]

Just what we need..numeracy skills when you can type algebra into the google search box and and everyones got acomputer in their pocket.

Because the brain is a muscle (a bone in your case, but I digress) and needs exercise. It's difficult to Google something if you don't even know what it is in the first place.

 

[old.Tohtori]

the point isn't always simply getting an answer, a lot of maths & science in school is intended to teach kids how to problem solve which is a rather useful skill

Got me into "trouble" a couple of times as i often just wrote the answer. Couldn't help it, was just easier to count it in my head.

I do like to do some brain counting every now and then, like start with 1 and double it as far as i can go

 

[caLLous]

"Show your working". *shudder*

I actually had to put a bit of Pythagoras to use a couple of years ago when measuring out an area to put up a fence - other than occasional use of πr² and 2πr etc I don't really remember other mathsy stuff, let alone (consciously) use it.

 

[Job]

Because the brain is a muscle (a bone in your case, but I digress) and needs exercise. It's difficult to Google something if you don't even know what it is in the first place.

Exactly...just teach them what maths is
.which should take a day and then show them how a computer is a billion times better than them at working it outand show them how to let it do all the work

 

[old.Osy]

guis guis, relax. You no worry becoz mathematics, vee east-europeans got this, okey?

http://www.csi.ucd.ie/news/united-kingdom-and-ireland-programming-contest-ukiepc-results

(For those that don't get it, 5 out of 10 teams are comprised of romanian nationals)

*smug*

 

[rynnor]

guis guis, relax. You no worry becoz mathematics, vee east-europeans got this, okey?

http://www.csi.ucd.ie/news/united-kingdom-and-ireland-programming-contest-ukiepc-results

(For those that don't get it, 5 out of 10 teams are comprised of romanian nationals)

*smug*

Who were all beaten by a 'team' composed of 1 nerd from Bath University...

 

[old.Osy]

Fair enough, but the sheer ratio should count for something.