Necros and RvR

[bigchief]

Originally posted by Puppetmistress
Yes. I did read the +crit part. However with WP3 you 'only' crit 25%. Being able to crit for 50% max of your base damage means you can't even hit for 500++ on a target with real resists.

I have to agree here. The spec nuke, which is just a power drain does very little damage, even with a crit. Got WP3 and MoM3 on my necro and id get nowhere near 500 damage with a crit. Cap crit in rvr is 50% as he said so that makes a nuke of 333.3. Its rare the base nuke will hit for this (life drain, higher delve damage) and then you have to get a full crit. Against anything remotly like a balanced grp resists are off the scale after sc, ra's and buffs ... add things like baod and i just send the pet in to melee

In the right situations a necro can be great. Against groups with no CC and in large zerg situations where a bug common to all pets comes into play (not saying what but anyone with a nuking pet cant whinge as theirs does it too ). Its a decent support class in a mage group, and also in a tank group .. but at the end of the day the pets too unpredictable, too easily controlled by CC and too bugged. See how many bugs get fixed in 1.65, and then see if anyone starts whining on US boards .. will give a good indication if they really have fixed necro bugs

 

[brite]

Originally posted by amuse
sorc can be replaced by a theurg, although sorc is the best when it comes to mezzing

but i once was in a uber grp, it was like this: 2 pallys (one 50 one 48), 1 infiltrator(47), 1 ice wizz(45), 1necro(me 50), one Polearms armsman(49), 1 cleric(50). we killed 3 fg mids in DF, no mobs involved, and not by suprise. as u see... no mezz, no speed etc.. i kill some casters in 3 nukes, so why am i a gimp in RvR?? some1 answer me? and yes, i can controll my pet

uber group ? your not all 50, your in df, please be quiet you just ganked peopel trying to level ?

Necro is no good in RvR and if you play a necro you would know it any necro that disagrees is in denial

get another account and powerlevel a decent charecter

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Originally posted by old.Atrox
And make it lvl50..

would prolly be overpowerd thou, nuker with 200-300 melee ^^

ahhhh i see... so thats why he is so buggy, he would be overpowered otherwise, mythic classrape tactics -.-

 

[amuse]

Originally posted by brite
uber group ? your not all 50, your in df, please be quiet you just ganked peopel trying to level ?

Necro is no good in RvR and if you play a necro you would know it any necro that disagrees is in denial

get another account and powerlevel a decent charecter

they werent xping.. they knew we where coming, and necros is good in RvR... face it... WE ARE NOT GIMPS!

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Originally posted by amuse
and necros is good in RvR... face it... WE ARE NOT GIMPS!

yes we are, just look at all the resists/ra's we cant get and the buggieness of the pet -.-

 

[amuse]

Originally posted by old.Morchaoron
yes we are, just look at all the resists/ra's we cant get and the buggieness of the pet -.-

i know aboute the buggs, but we are not gimps!

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Originally posted by amuse
i know aboute the buggs, but we are not gimps!

define gimps...

 

[old.Atrox]

Amuse we are.

 

[amuse]

Learn to play with necros, and play with ppl that know how to play side by side with a necro, then ur not a gimp!.. ofc, in random grps, all classes can be gimps from time to time.

 

[hangianix]

Then why whine about no invitation for necros? Make a grp with non-random ppl who know how to play side by side with a necro...

 

[amuse]

becouse ppl like that only comes alone once every milenium!

 

[old.Atrox]

Originally posted by amuse
Learn to play with necros, and play with ppl that know how to play side by side with a necro, then ur not a gimp!.. ofc, in random grps, all classes can be gimps from time to time.

I think we got diffrent standards concerning RvR efficiency.
The Necros inability to quickly react make them ineffective.
The facts that the pet is blue make you take higher melee damage and higher Magic damage ( due to various codes, as you know you hit blue mobs harder then you hit yellows ).
Except these things your hard to heal, your not affected by the tide turning RA's ( and those are important ).

Sure necros can perform very well in some situations, but in most situations the action out perform the necros abilities.
Fix the control issues and the Con and the class would be a very nice contribution for Alb "gank Groups"


My defination of RvR efficiency is:
1.) Abilities ( dmg/support )
2.) Survivabilty ( this is where the Necro cant cope anymore, Sorc got Survivabilty problems aswell, but the abilities outweights the Survivabilitys )

 

[amuse]

Originally posted by old.Atrox
I think we got diffrent standards concerning RvR efficiency.
The Necros inability to quickly react make them ineffective.
The facts that the pet is blue make you take higher melee damage and higher Magic damage ( due to various codes, as you know you hit blue mobs harder then you hit yellows ).
Except these things your hard to heal, your not affected by the tide turning RA's ( and those are important ).

Sure necros can perform very well in some situations, but in most situations the action out perform the necros abilities.
Fix the control issues and the Con and the class would be a very nice contribution for Alb "gank Groups"


My defination of RvR efficiency is:
1.) Abilities ( dmg/support )
2.) Survivabilty ( this is where the Necro cant cope anymore, Sorc got Survivabilty problems aswell, but the abilities outweights the Survivabilitys )

true, i am unhappy with the necro in RvR, but i have fun to, and can kick some arse.

the pet thing i HATE! its takes what? 2 or 3 nukes and pet is dead.. even a god dam caster takes more!

but, im not a gimp, close, but not a gimp

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Originally posted by amuse
Learn to play with necros, and play with ppl that know how to play side by side with a necro, then ur not a gimp!.. ofc, in random grps, all classes can be gimps from time to time.

what xorta said is true, its not that easy...

the way you talk even a 50 thrust 50 slash scout wont be a gimp..


your pet feels it everytime you get another mez spam on your group, its not that bad for most cuz they will have immunity, but the pet doesnt, and with 4 savages on the sorc like flies on shit being very busy rooting he really cant demez the pet every 10 seconds...

and yes i played with VERY good people, and although we didnt lose much and i didnt really die it was only effective when NO ONE tried to attack me/interrupt me
ofcourse every caster suffers from interruption, but necro suffers most from it

necro has great abilities
the necro abilities are not gimped
the pet is gimped
since the necro has to rely on the pet
the necro is gimped aswell

we are not underpowered, we are not like thanes or anything, the issue is not that we arent strong enough, its just that due to crappy programming the way this class works is shit...

 

[amuse]

the way i play the necro, is trye not to get mezzed at all, move oute of the grp when i see inc mids/hibs.. strafe to the side...
that way i dont get mezzed by aoe, and i can atack.. then when they have aoe mezzed i usualy move into the grp, to not ataract to much atention to me.

true, the necro suffers from the pet buggs, but i dont find that the bigest problem. we need some DDs, so we can make GOOD dmg, not just poor dmg and get some mana back.

and the pet need to get yellow, so it doesnt die that much.. and the diferent resists, and grp bonuses/heales etc needs to be directed towerds the pet. but i do not find myself a gimp in RvR. i can do not that bad dmg, and af debuff taks, so they die in few hits, and kill casters, kill/interupt healers etc

 

[Goryk]

I have no probs with my necro in rvr vs random put together groups. Often finding low resists, and not getting targetted often. I find I can avoid the ae mezzes pretty well too by sticking to the last in group with my pet even further behind and peeling off early when we see incoming (a skill most albs don't seem to have ) I've nuked for as much as 560 with my lifetap vs level 50's with average resists and no resist buffs up. Against a semi decent group, you might as well just forget about rvr. When Eclipse ran rampage a while back, I'd nuke for around 180 with my tap (-220ish) and my insta would hit for 80odd with 50-60 hp regen. All his without BaoD up. Celts and elves often had over 65% resist to spirit with their racial and 3 or so levels of aom. With all damage and debuffs being spirit there wasn't much I could do.. pbt took care of pet melee too :> There is the whole bug thing too with necros where you should win vs a ns for instance who missed perfed, but due to pet swinging on passive mode after you insta, he gets reactionary stun styles on him and dies, pet pathfinding, mez length, stun length, random wandering off at mach 5 in the oposite direction to you (net speed of mach10) because an archer shot him, giving you bout 1 second to realise this and put him on passive, interrupts, buggy FP, make necros just utterly frustrating to play... I've pretty much solo'd to rr4 so I'm obviously capable of getting kills in the right situation but those situations are just very rare at the moment.

I'm worried if they fix the bugs that they'll make necros overpowered however... I'd rather be a bit crap and buggy than be a fotm rvr character

 

[amuse]

Originally posted by Goryk
I have no probs with my necro in rvr vs random put together groups. Often finding low resists, and not getting targetted often. I find I can avoid the ae mezzes pretty well too by sticking to the last in group with my pet even further behind and peeling off early when we see incoming (a skill most albs don't seem to have ) I've nuked for as much as 560 with my lifetap vs level 50's with average resists and no resist buffs up. Against a semi decent group, you might as well just forget about rvr. When Eclipse ran rampage a while back, I'd nuke for around 180 with my tap (-220ish) and my insta would hit for 80odd with 50-60 hp regen. All his without BaoD up. Celts and elves often had over 65% resist to spirit with their racial and 3 or so levels of aom. With all damage and debuffs being spirit there wasn't much I could do.. pbt took care of pet melee too :> There is the whole bug thing too with necros where you should win vs a ns for instance who missed perfed, but due to pet swinging on passive mode after you insta, he gets reactionary stun styles on him and dies, pet pathfinding, mez length, stun length, random wandering off at mach 5 in the oposite direction to you (net speed of mach10) because an archer shot him, giving you bout 1 second to realise this and put him on passive, interrupts, buggy FP, make necros just utterly frustrating to play... I've pretty much solo'd to rr4 so I'm obviously capable of getting kills in the right situation but those situations are just very rare at the moment.

I'm worried if they fix the bugs that they'll make necros overpowered however... I'd rather be a bit crap and buggy than be a fotm rvr character

FINALY!

someone that also knows how to play necro RvR
and understands how to avoid mezz etc..
but the pets lvl and resist is the only thing i want fixed, and maybe a decent spec line besides death sight, with some nice DDs etc

 

[old.Morchaoron]

DOH!!!!!!

with every caster class you try to avoid being a target of ae spells (mez), and ofcourse all casters are supposed to stand in the back, thats just a basic caster tactic which has NOTHING specific to do with being a necro...

its about when you DO get targetted, when you DO get your ass spammed off....
its got nothing to do with playing a necro right, its just another caster class, you try to avoid all this kind of crap with wiz, sorc, cabalist, theurgist...
AND YES I KNOW HOW TO PLAY A NECRO RIGHT!
like i said it worked well in my group, we thrashed all random groups, but i noticed that it had too many flaws, and to switch it back for another tank would be better considering the pet is just too unreliable

when you play in a GOOD GROUP vs a GOOD GROUP you will have to be very fast and do everything just right, necro just isnt that class to do everything 'just right' since its casting is disabled very easily...

and please... the things like 'moving away from mez' etc has got nothing to do with knowing how to play a necro, these are basic 'skills' which EVERY caster is supposed to do, necro is the same as any other caster, only buggier...

 

[amuse]

i know that,, but loads of ppl play their necro as a hybird tank/caster.. when its best played as a pure caster in RvR cambats...

and these "elite" grps aint that many, random grps, of albs/mids/hibs are comon, and then the necro rox

 

[old.Atrox]

Movement

Now theres one of the big dowsides for the necro.
You move the Shade and the pet follows.
You are the pet, the pet is you.
This indirectly means you got a 1 - 2sec delay on all your movement.

Ineffective in RvR when trying to get out of range for DDs

 

[amuse]

Originally posted by old.Atrox
Movement

Now theres one of the big dowsides for the necro.
You move the Shade and the pet follows.
You are the pet, the pet is you.
This indirectly means you got a 1 - 2sec delay on all your movement.

Ineffective in RvR when trying to get out of range for DDs

that is a problem when the enemy comes from the back or side, and no1 sees them, but in head on fights, u see the enemy in good time to move away

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Originally posted by amuse
that is a problem when the enemy comes from the back or side, and no1 sees them, but in head on fights, u see the enemy in good time to move away

same for every caster...

 

[Graknak]

i actually think non-necro casters have more problems with tanks nailing them in the back then necros themselves. At least a necros can still use melee lifetaps.

 

[old.Atrox]

Originally posted by Graknak
i actually think non-necro casters have more problems with tanks nailing them in the back then necros themselves. At least a necros can still use melee lifetaps.

nope, my sorc got better survivability in Melee.

They die do fast, I can solo red/purp mobs unbuffed, but I cant solo a shield/frontload char.

 

[Goryk]

The only problem I have with melee tends to be stuns. 1 on 1, I usually survive even those. Stealthers who perf and stun can be a problem, but you'd expect that when they are buffed up the jacksie and I'm using only self buffs The most evil thing I've seen in melee was nightstar dropping a haste debuff poison on my pet. Not funny having it swing once every 8 or so seconds, when your "insta's" are essentially pet swing procs and only 2 can queue at once Not many have access to that or choose to use it at least...

Against one person I usually don't have too much probs. Taken down unbuffed zerkers (prepatch), savages, heros, warriors you name it, with and without ip, and with or without stuns. When they are buffed it's a lot harder. Thats the other main problem of a necro.. Our self buffs are a bit crap, and no clerics seem to know how to buff a necro properly The amount of times I've had con put on me, or int on the pet.... I've been buffed myself once in rvr by a 50 enhance cleric and the results were a little obscene in melee. My survivability buffed to magic damage is about where I'd want it unbuffed though, so still a bit low in that department

 

[Graknak]

atrox you still need to find a suitable pet, not to mention have quickcast ready to mezz, without that yer doomed. i'd say the chances are 50/50 then, necro being able to lifetap in melee and you being able to mezz if you got qc..

 

[Talen]

Just face it, necros aren't really viable due to the extreme amount of bugs that exist, the fact that it's chainmezzable and so on. You get a extreme amount of absorb if you are fully buffed, but will that save you if you enter the fight when it's either over or lost as you are the only one left.

And nukes wtfpwn necros

 

[old.Atrox]

Originally posted by Graknak
atrox you still need to find a suitable pet, not to mention have quickcast ready to mezz, without that yer doomed. i'd say the chances are 50/50 then, necro being able to lifetap in melee and you being able to mezz if you got qc..

I handle the beating better then the pet.
Im yellow, I got MP armors so that lowers the dmg, I got ablative, I got better resists.

aslong as the necro pet is handled as a pet the class will be gimped.

If we talk general survivability Sorc > necro, due to abilities and RA's.
I can MoC LifeTap/mezz/root or just QC, I nuke twice as fast.

and Sorcs RvR Survivability sucks.