Necros and RvR

[amuse]

Im so freaken tired of ppl that thinks necros are RvR gimps!

Learn this, we nit for 500 dmg with mana nuke with crit strike, and with WP3 thats alot (yes i have it).
we can AF Debuff an enemy for 250 value, that can up to triple the dmg a tank does the the debuffed target, we suply the casters/healers with mana.

why dont u want us in ur "elite" and normal grps'????

u love us in PvE, but denie us the right to PvP

 

[old.mattshanes]

FL tried necro with af debuff we loved it xD

But the person playing the necro found the pet hard to control, worth doing though.

Will need af debuff with all these fotm 3 healer groups and savages who can 2 shot tanks.

 

[amuse]

Originally posted by old.mattshanes
FL tried necro with af debuff we loved it xD

But the person playing the necro found the pet hard to control, worth doing though.

True, the pet can be hard to controll, but use the pasive mobe, and "here". "stay" and "follow" functions good, and its not that hard. i myself think i do a good job in RvR, both when it comes to atacking the right targets, pet controll, and AF debuffing

Edit: And dont expect us to AF dubuff if we dont get grps, it will be like expecting a healer to tag along with u and heal.
it brings us no RPs

 

[hangianix]

It's rather like when someone yell to cleric: Heal!

 

[liste]

sounds a bit like being a grouped sorc. you're expected to mezz, and after you die, you're expected to /cheer when the group keels

<this obviously doesnt count for the Good clerics that DO exist>

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Originally posted by amuse
True, the pet can be hard to controll, but use the pasive mobe, and "here". "stay" and "follow" functions good, and its not that hard. i myself think i do a good job in RvR, both when it comes to atacking the right targets, pet controll, and AF debuffing

the pet gets no mez/stun reduction or whatever, and I know how to use FP but when interrupted by magic its buggier then ever, and your pet cannot be grouphealed / groupinsatad so a few nukes can take care of it...

 

[hangianix]

Originally posted by liste
sounds a bit like being a grouped sorc. you're expected to mezz, and after you die, you're expected to /cheer when the group keels

<this obviously doesnt count for the Good clerics that DO exist>

Doh, you didn't /cheer this day

 

[old.Atrox]

Deathsight is AWSOME in RvR, the Pet isnt.

Sure the pet can get insane ABS and very nice Magic Resists ( or could, dunno if they fixed the dual resistbuff bug ) but all that is worthless due to the HUGE to hit bonus ( both Melee and magic ) and the full dmg bonus all due to being blue con, and to top it off the pet is slow reacting and slow casting, wont be affected by the real tide turning RA's.
All this makes the Necro unrelyable in RvR, except if you get the drop on the enemies, you cannot effectivly handle the pet in stressfull situations, this is due to the poor pet controll in Daoc not the player, so no matter how "skilled" the necro is you cannot perform good enough to hide the bad sides.

Give a Caster with DS line ( and make the LT instants on 4sec timer xDDD ) and you got the best caster in daoc, but aslong as we are stucked with that Pet we are gimped by default.

Aslong as the controll issue remains unsolved the Necro wont beable to handle RvR good enough to sacrefice an other class.

 

[Duzzy]

The problem is that in a balanced FG you need

2 cleric
1 pally
1 minstrel
1 sorc
3 mercs

so, theres no space for a necro..

 

[Cush]

Originally posted by old.mattshanes
FL tried necro with af debuff we loved it xD

But the person playing the necro found the pet hard to control, worth doing though.

Will need af debuff with all these fotm 3 healer groups and savages who can 2 shot tanks.

:eek2: 2 shot a tank.. plz plz show me how

 

[amuse]

Originally posted by Duzzy
The problem is that in a balanced FG you need

2 cleric
1 pally
1 minstrel
1 sorc
3 mercs

so, theres no space for a necro..

replace one of the mercs with a necro.. adn why that grp upset? there no reaver/friar/armsman/wizzard/theurgist/cabby... saying that thats a balanced grp is wrong.. there is LOADS of good grp upsets.

 

[greatred]

Albion "balanced" groups are hard to achieve imo. We have a lot of solid classes, but the utility is spread so wide we have to have a lot of different classes in a group. So usually we compromise by dropping a nuker, or tank, or healer etc if we want the utility.

My point? Not anything specific, but I don't think there is a "set" group of classes to make a solid RvR group from.

 

[old.ivan]

True but 1 paladin, 1 mincer , 1 sorc and 2 clerics is prolly a must have for a "balanced" alb group.

 

[greatred]

Originally posted by old.ivan
True but 1 paladin, 1 mincer , 1 sorc and 2 clerics is prolly a must have for a "balanced" alb group.

Agreed, it's somewhere to start from. You have 3 more spaces for tanks/nukers.

 

[amuse]

sorc can be replaced by a theurg, although sorc is the best when it comes to mezzing

but i once was in a uber grp, it was like this: 2 pallys (one 50 one 48), 1 infiltrator(47), 1 ice wizz(45), 1necro(me 50), one Polearms armsman(49), 1 cleric(50). we killed 3 fg mids in DF, no mobs involved, and not by suprise. as u see... no mezz, no speed etc.. i kill some casters in 3 nukes, so why am i a gimp in RvR?? some1 answer me? and yes, i can controll my pet

 

[greatred]

i kill some casters in 3 nukes, so why am i a gimp in RvR?? some1 answer me? and yes, i can controll my pet [/B]

Sounds pretty good to me, esp as you are a source of af debuffs etc... Although when playing my cleric in PvE (he's only 24 and hasn't started thid yet) it's a real fiddle to heal necro pets as I'm sure you're aware. I think Mythic should address this issue as I can't imagine how much harder it is to heal necro pets in RvR (at least they have lifedrain eh? ).

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Originally posted by Duzzy
The problem is that in a balanced FG you need

2 cleric
1 pally
1 minstrel
1 sorc
3 mercs

so, theres no space for a necro..

you havent seen the power of the AF debuff.. tanks will always do max damage, unstyled our polearmsman hit for 691, styled for 1047.. ALWAYS, 2 tanks will be able to insta kill someone together before he even has the chance to get healed...

if the pet was more reliable i would throw out a merc for a necro for sure...

also some minor details:
it has a 9% absorb buff for everyone
you will never run out of power during a fight, one nuke fills your power bar by 40% or something (on a level 50 player)
with buffbot buffs its almost impossible to be killed fast by tanks (kinda same effect as on the SM's spirit)

biggest flaws:
its all about the debuffs, and the pet is too unreliable
cannot be groupinstad/healed and is not targetable on the minigroup panel so its very vulnerable to spec nukes
most of the RA's dont work on pet, including aom, purge, mota
the pet gets NO mez reduction, and without purge, its just shit...

if the necro spells could be controlled the same way as any other caster, there would probably be alot of nerf whining

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Necro pets are basically impossible to keep alive vs a decent group - a bluecon pet you can't target easily. Since they suffer from full mez duration and can't purge, they also tend to spend large amounts of time doing nothing, right until they get ganked

 

[old.Atrox]

Originally posted by amuse
sorc can be replaced by a theurg, although sorc is the best when it comes to mezzing

but i once was in a uber grp, it was like this: 2 pallys (one 50 one 48), 1 infiltrator(47), 1 ice wizz(45), 1necro(me 50), one Polearms armsman(49), 1 cleric(50). we killed 3 fg mids in DF, no mobs involved, and not by suprise. as u see... no mezz, no speed etc.. i kill some casters in 3 nukes, so why am i a gimp in RvR?? some1 answer me? and yes, i can controll my pet

Biggest diffrence, In DF ppl dont run with 3 healers in the group, they dont have resist buffs, most of them dont have SC armors.
In Emain you will un into gank groups, no CC and your toasted, they will have capped resists and buffs, they will get chain healed unless the support are mezzed, so you wont beable to nuke for higher then 250 top.

 

[old.mattshanes]

When we ran necro tank group with our guild it was:

1 cleric
1 mins
1 sorc
1 necro
1 merc
2 armsman(both full pole)
1 friar

Damage was insane....i thought i was a savage for a while xDDD

 

[Aoln]

Originally posted by old.mattshanes

Damage was insane....i thought i was a savage for a while xDDD

dream on, your not that overpowered

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by amuse
Im so freaken tired of ppl that thinks necros are RvR gimps!

Learn this, we nit for 500 dmg with mana nuke with crit strike, and with WP3 thats alot (yes i have it).

Hahahha.

500? LOL

Strange that when I took out my air-theurgist (MoM2 and WP3 as relevant RA's)

Now if we look at your spell: Your mana-nuke is level 44 and delves for DD159 (to compare: My theurg nuke delves for DD209)

There's no way you can nuke for 500 on someone with decent resists (your damage-cap is 477 on a spirit-vulnerable mob for instance)

we can AF Debuff an enemy for 250 value, that can up to triple the dmg a tank does the the debuffed target, we suply the casters/healers with mana.

True, if the enemy leaves your pet untouched. But the necromancer suffers from too many bugs to be of any good use in a good RvR-group:

* No Purge for the pet
* No CC-immunity for the pet
* Lots of passives RA bugged
* MOC bugged

A good opponent just (chain)-mezzes your precious abomination. Add to that the limited pet-control interface and the other random bugs (pet running off, missing faciliate painworking sometimes) and you got a too bugged class to do serious RvR.

We've tried it quite some times in RvR on Excal (where I play Albion) and it truely sucks. Against a good group the necro is happy if he gets even 2 spells off :/

 

[old.Atrox]

For Amuse's defense, he did accually say 500 with a crit

thou it's true as you say.

 

[speshneeds]

give scouts grps imo... insta death to enemy casters, awesome blockbot for clerics etc etc etc


(matt - stop stealing my mobs in df ffs!!! )

 

[old.Morchaoron]

i really hope they will swap control of shade with abo, it would fix ALL of the bugs and crappy control but....

they probably wont do that

 

[old.Atrox]

Originally posted by old.Morchaoron
i really hope they will swap control of shade with abo, it would fix ALL of the bugs and crappy control but....

they probably wont do that

And make it lvl50..

would prolly be overpowerd thou, nuker with 200-300 melee ^^

 

[Weeping Willow]

alb determination tank > any caster (exception for one sorceress)

Get into the fight, mezzed, no purge, ah bad luck group dead.

I would go for:

2 clerics
1 minstrel
1 sorceress (has to be a sorceress, sorry Duzzy)
1 paladin
3 mercenary or 2 mercenary + 1 armsman


Everytime when playing mid and meeting alb groups with wizards, theurgists, necros, cabbys and so on I say yippie and get happy.

 

[amuse]

I did say 500 with crit, that means dmg+crit strike = 500++

and many enemy grps, even the "elite" ones, ignore the necro, get af-dubuffed, an suddenly all the tanks are dead.
and besides.. the mezz thing... sorc can de-mezz the pet, if they learn that the necro is good.. most de-mezzers (sorc/mini) ignore necros

 

[Puppetmistress]

Originally posted by amuse
I did say 500 with crit, that means dmg+crit strike = 500++

Yes. I did read the +crit part. However with WP3 you 'only' crit 25%. Being able to crit for 50% max of your base damage means you can't even hit for 500++ on a target with real resists.

Any good enemy-group runs with atleast 40% around. Hibbies IF they got a warden run with 50% + spirit-resists. Being a blue-con doesnt help either. Perhaps you meet alot of gimped groups, but there's no way in the world you hit harder then I did with my air-theurgist. And against good groups he had a hard-time breaking the 500.

and many enemy grps, even the "elite" ones, ignore the necro, get af-dubuffed, an suddenly all the tanks are dead.

I think most groups perma-interrupt your necro-pet or simply chain-mezz it. No purge or immunity makes it not that hard to control it for the enemy.

and besides.. the mezz thing... sorc can de-mezz the pet, if they learn that the necro is good.. most de-mezzers (sorc/mini) ignore necros

Most demezzers are busy doing other stuff (especially sorcs, they're busy keeping alive ) and they cant select the pet in group-window but have to find it on the battle-field, manually select the pet and then demezz. Which doesnt help either :/

 

[Weeping Willow]

Originally posted by amuse
and many enemy grps, even the "elite" ones, ignore the necro, get af-dubuffed, an suddenly all the tanks are dead.
and besides.. the mezz thing... sorc can de-mezz the pet, if they learn that the necro is good.. most de-mezzers (sorc/mini) ignore necros

Never seen that happen. Not a single time.