My thoughts on the dragon raid...

[StormriderX]

We tried the method of add control groups/rez groups/ranger groups and tank groups last night which in my opinion worked rather well despite the fact we all got owned by the adds towards the end.

However, there will be some adjusments needed to the plan in order for us to suceed.

Last nights battle plan was thus:
6 add control groups
3+ ranger groups
3+ rez groups
4+ tank groups

Our main problems was that with just tank groups and ranger groups attacking the dragon, we weren't getting anywhere fast.

That was until Tyka rightfully suggested that the add control groups help out on the dragon.

From then on we quickly got the dragon down to 5% before the adds - not the dragon - over ran us due to the amount of dead hibbies.

The other major problem we suffered from was lack of listening on from a lot of the raiders. Repeated requests to move back to the zone wall was ignored as the majority continued to mill about aimlessly outside the dragons lair.

Also I spotted some mages nuking from OUTSIDE of melee range despite repeated requests to stay withing melee range when doing so.

There was also reports of people healing as well despite repeated requests not to.

Another big problem was adds not being dealt with despite repeated requests to deal with adds first then dragon after ala legion raid stylee.

These basic mistakes MUST be corrected if we are to take down the dragon.

Therefore what I propose it thus:

We stick with the tried at tested plan of 6+ add control groups (standard pve group formation), as many rez groups as possible (druids/wardens/a bard or a mentalist (mentalist preferred for mr 5 of course)), as many ranger groups as possible (6 rangers, 1 bard for regen,1 chanter for damage add), and as many melee groups as possible (everyone else).

When we get to the dragons lair the add control groups will the mobs and clear them. Then one suicidal person will pull dragon from mound till he stops AOEing.

Then the tank groups,ranger groups (armed with slash+thrust arrows) AND the add control groups will all gank the dragon.

Only when adds are incoming will the add control groups drop back and fight the adds.

If the add control groups are being overrun then they shall request help over cg and the raid leader should assign 2 tank groups or more to go and help deal with the adds before returning our attentions to the dragon.

Thank you for your time in reading this and hopefully we WILL gank this dragon.

 

[adari]

Sounds like a fun plan

 

[Tank Init]

we will never kill the dragon because no one follows orders

 

[vadrek]

Storm the problem as u say is ppl dot listen orders,


The adds control need to be outside the lair and only kill the adds, why? , Couse if the hit the dragon and left due adds, if we get aggro, dragon will aoe.

No heals , i also saw ppl healing , mages nuking etc etc etc,


This are my tactics:


Tank grp (ONLY) hit the dragon

6 control adds grp.
2 in each Dragon lair Entrace + 1 Rez grp with they

Mages should stay as control add grps . no one in Dragon except his grp are in dragon and then can debuff staff hit or pb, aoe, gtaoe etc but allways in Melee Range.


I do 30 (-7) dmg with pb at melee range of dragon and hit for 5 (-1) with staff.

Just the rest is good work for rezzers, and control add, if we get no aoe the dragon will be down in 10 min at last.

 

[old.Niljindil]

My plans that i have worked out over the months since my raid has been this:

5 or more add groups, as you said, just normal pve groups. Having enough of these groups will be the hard thing.

Second, EVERYONE attacking the dragon _must_ be ungrouped.

Why? you ask. Well, heres the thing, since 1.48 or so(cant remember really) res spells give aggro. But if the person you res arent grouped, he doesnt have any aggro to transfer, aka "his" combat is over, and thus someone ressing him wont get aggro.

This will do 2 things.
1. Ressers will _never_ get aggro from the dragon.
2. Since ressers wont die unless adds overwhelm them, there will always be people able to swing away on the dragon.

Oh and why 6 rangers a bard and a chanter Better with a warden for damage add chant if you ask me, since rangers have a self damage add that should be better than any chanter dadd except full enchantment enchanters, of which there arent many

Basically, i think that would work, as long as the add groups dont get overwhelmed i cant see a reason why it would fail. Since the dragon wont have a reason to aoe anyone except the ones attacking him, you should always have all ressers(or most anyway) alive to make sure there are people hitting it.

 

[PJS]

pryd did it, similar strategy, however they were all INSIDE the circle from what I read

Q: if the last member of a group meleeing dragon who has aggro dies and a freshly ressed member of the same group is sat within ae range resting, that from what I understand of game mechanics will draw aggro and ae? (on the raid the ressers/wounded were getting aed often for no particulary obvious reason other than maybe this)

edit: what Nij said, I think its a bad move for the peeps hitting the dragon to be grouped

oh and ress groups are NO match for glimmer jinns we got slaughtered

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Aussie-
excal hibs are fucking knobs!
even prydwen beated j00

Pryd alb killed Apoc... Something excal is yet to do.

 

[Aussie-]

excal never really tried to beat him. Epic dungeon raids take so much time :bore:
ppl start to log after 4-5 hours etc
but we came very close saturday with only 90ppl ^^
[PIC]

 

[uncle_sal]

Originally posted by Aussie-
excal never really tried to beat him. Epic dungeon raids take so much time :bore:
ppl start to log after 4-5 hours etc
but we came very close saturday with only 90ppl ^^
[PIC]

So excal albs are knobs... yep yep

 

[eneq]

Some things i saw that made me wonder.

1. Why did many rest at dragon ?
Saw mucho peeps sitting near dragon doing nada ?
And some mages sat at zonewall resting up mana and then go in and attack dragon.

When mages dies or no mana keep /stick and melee the SoB

2. Why was there gray chars at dragon ?
When i was AoE´d when ressing 1 of the grey was next to me ....

3. Pets shouldnt b allowed..
Why ?
Well as a long time chanter i know that pets can behave very strange... Sometime pet can walk away from mob cause of strange pathchoice.....
And what happen if a pet gets teleported ? (can it b even?)
Some had a passive ally in groups but:
a) a ally heal regen wont help you against 4.5 k damage..
b) when someone in group get ressed the pet will start healing ...

And the last thing..Some peeps didnt obey
Best is to get names and then talk to GM of guilds etc etc.

Was great fun and we almost did it . Think we nail the SoB next time.
Great work from the Raidleaders.


(BTW should have 2 fg coming 10 min after all gone from Innis to take up LD on the way)

 

[Ziva]

I think things would be better if everyone (except add control groups) would be ungrouped like Niljindil suggested. That way u prevent people from healing others in the first place and if they do... they won't bring their 7 other groupmates in danger atleast. Add control groups should all stay out of liar cause if one person in the group deceides to gank the dragon he will put everyone else in danger too (this happened yesterday in several groups).

As for people not listening... sure that is one part of the problem but for me it was also the fact orders were put vaguely or changed all the time within the raid. People will do as u tell them unless u change your order all the time.

My compliments for the raidleaders Storm and Klazart and i'm certainly not implying i could do this better but please make sure your orders are a little more specific next time cause the more doubt u show in giving orders, the more people will start doing their own thing.

I'm looking forward to another raid soon

 

[Ziva]

Originally posted by eneq
3. Pets shouldnt b allowed..

I asked Klazart before the raid started if pets were allowed and he said no. So i aked him to announce this in /cg but this didn't happen. During the raid i asked again to announce this in /cg because i saw pets on the dragon but it never got announced.

Basically eliminate all questions before they can be made i think. These questions could have been expected so hopefully the answer can be given before at next time. Also a simple website would be an idea i think so people can check it out b4 joining the /cg instead of bumping into /cg asking "wtf am i doing here, where are u all, how is loot divided" and stuff like that.

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by old.Niljindil
My plans that i have worked out over the months since my raid has been this:

5 or more add groups, as you said, just normal pve groups. Having enough of these groups will be the hard thing.

Second, EVERYONE attacking the dragon _must_ be ungrouped.

Why? you ask. Well, heres the thing, since 1.48 or so(cant remember really) res spells give aggro. But if the person you res arent grouped, he doesnt have any aggro to transfer, aka "his" combat is over, and thus someone ressing him wont get aggro.

This will do 2 things.
1. Ressers will _never_ get aggro from the dragon.
2. Since ressers wont die unless adds overwhelm them, there will always be people able to swing away on the dragon.

Oh and why 6 rangers a bard and a chanter Better with a warden for damage add chant if you ask me, since rangers have a self damage add that should be better than any chanter dadd except full enchantment enchanters, of which there arent many

Basically, i think that would work, as long as the add groups dont get overwhelmed i cant see a reason why it would fail. Since the dragon wont have a reason to aoe anyone except the ones attacking him, you should always have all ressers(or most anyway) alive to make sure there are people hitting it.

one note on this, if I, with my healer sees a group in trouble. and i go rezz someone while they are fighting mobs. If they then die, the mob comes for me. dunno if this has any application to the dragon, just a little fyi

 

[Amadon]

klazart, please get to the dragon next time...

and only give 1 or 2 people permission to talk in the cg, maybe 3 at most - raid leader, add control leader and dragon-fodder leader

there were way too many people shouting orders, sometimes conflicting orders

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by Arnor2
one note on this, if I, with my healer sees a group in trouble. and i go rezz someone while they are fighting mobs. If they then die, the mob comes for me. dunno if this has any application to the dragon, just a little fyi

a few times it looked like people got aggro from rezzing, while they were outside the lair, and thus outside melee range, prompting the aoe

was difficult to tell tho

 

[mars]

"rangers have their own dmgadd"

yea but it stacks with chanters, however, lets get us enchspecced chanters plz, not as the one we had or the one i had last raid again.. 20light 4ench,.. = dmgadd: 1
thats just silly imo ;o

 

[Faeldawn]

Originally posted by Aussie-
excal hibs are fucking knobs!
even prydwen beated j00

Half your posts are really interesting Aussie

Other half are complete crap

Twat :great:

 

[Alrindel]

http://www.gamespy.com/comics/dorktower/images/comics/DT22(3).jpg

 

[Ravenbourne]

Just an idea but would having the majority of the chanters in the add control groups be better? a tank should be able to handle 2/3 adds easy with the chanters nuking they wont be holding for that long.
maybe have 3 add control groups set up like this?
2 mana chanters (nuking)
bard (heals/end)
druid (heals/buffs)
ment (MR5)
2 tanks (blades spec)
warden (bubble/3rd tank)
imo rez's for add groups would be minimal if any at all.
I think the idea of having all the people on the dragon un grouped is a good one, have rez'ers dotted around the outside of the dragon area not standing together just incase of aoe.

Also have 1 group with leaders of the CG's have them away from the dragon anywhere will do as long as they can see whats going on, have only group leaders speaking in the CG's, make group leaders people who know how to listen and no gray cons wasting rezz'ers time and mana. no offence grays but tbh there isnt much you can do at the dragon.

 

[old.Niljindil]

Originally posted by Arnor2
one note on this, if I, with my healer sees a group in trouble. and i go rezz someone while they are fighting mobs. If they then die, the mob comes for me. dunno if this has any application to the dragon, just a little fyi

Exactly, thats why everyone should be ungrouped

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by Aussie-
excal hibs are fucking knobs!
even prydwen beated j00

and this "fucking knobs" are the ones that kills you etc etc... that gotta feel even worse..

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by Arnor2
one note on this, if I, with my healer sees a group in trouble. and i go rezz someone while they are fighting mobs. If they then die, the mob comes for me. dunno if this has any application to the dragon, just a little fyi

as he said, the group still has the aggro from the mob. your rezz therefor builds aggro when you rezz when they are fighting. that's why you get it. if the group is all dead the group has no aggro, and therefor nothing can be transfered to you.

 

[Nemue]

Was a shame that the adds got the better of us, was looking really good on that last attempt.

Don't know if it's possible, but maybe we could let chanters deal with the adds? have them pet-pull the adds and that way we can have more tanks hitting the dragon? that is of course if the dragon AoE isn't triggered with healing outside the lair aswell.

technically speaking tho, the dragon should have no idea if ppl are healing groupmembers/pets that's not in the dragons aggro radius.

 

[Edlina]

On Prydwen we barely had any adds, all 3 entrances was covered by 2fg add grps and 1 resser grp with every naturalist from those 3 grps ressing whenever the dragon aoe'd (did this about once every 2-3 minutes) can give you details of how it was planned if you want. Remember to kill the courier the dragon sends to get help when he's about 20%, it's him that makes all the adds come. Btw, no one was ungrouped on our raid. can give you all info later, if you want let me know.

 

[noaim]

Originally posted by Amadon
a few times it looked like people got aggro from rezzing, while they were outside the lair, and thus outside melee range, prompting the aoe

was difficult to tell tho

Healers gets aggro from rezzing, our dragon mostly ae nukes them, but not that meganasty ae nuke, a somewhat weaker ranged ae nuke (the meganuke seems to be pbae?) that wipes nearby healers and newly ressed people.

Therefor, when you get ressed, go for dragon directly, if you get healed, that healer is bound to get aggro, which means lots of dead healers if he is stuffed togheter with others.

All it really takes to kill the dragon is alot of tanks and LOTS of ressing power. And tanks hitting the dragon the second they get ressed. It dont really matter if you are at 10% hp or 100% hp, 1 hit more or less usually, so just at it again and spread healers out

Edit: I am sure you can do it in a much more fancy and quicker way, but this way do work, hope you get him down, it is about time Good luck.