D
Damini
Guest
Hrm, my thread just disappeared into thin air.
Conspiracy theories abound!
In response to the Why I hate classes question, have some cut and pasting from what I posted in the DE forums:
I've been following this game ever since I first heard of it, planning ahead, reading the news, plotting with friends, and when I heard this news I must say my heart sunk. I've never posted here before, but this development has disappointed me so much I felt I had to at least have my say, even if I'm just shouting into the wind.
My original MMORPG was UO, and I loved this game. Hell, I was gimped to oblivion on occasions, a high class warrior that was heavily specced in herding(!!) at one point (hey, little Bo Peep needs to beef up when its trolls and not wolves harrassing the herd). I had a mage that could tame, so I could have an army of domesticated cats at my bidding. Other people would teach, mentor, and my character evolved. I loved the fact that you could meet someone and they were a mystery - the chatty person in the plain clothes turned out to be a master mage with a castle. The flashy person riding the impressive horse holding the massive halberd turned out to be a master tailor but as useful as a chocolate saucepan when it came to a fight. The newby character learning magic could come past and heal you just when you thought you were about to die. The game didn't discrimate against you because of skills, it didn't patronise you and coach you into choosing The Right Skills, if you became a gimp, hell you're a gimp, but at some stage a carpenter who can also play songs really well is going to be useful. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day...
I left UO in the end simply because the system became too unbalanced. Cheats had left the money system hyperinflated, e-bay meant that castles were for business men rather than students, and that was what made me leave. After four years, the game was still playable, but the financial system was damaged.
DAoC was my next game. God, DAoC is pretty, and it did well to create a real tangible sense of another world, or space and geography, but the class systems MURDER the game. I can look at any character and tell you exactly how you should be specced, the ultimate skills, I can look at you and say "Skald. Speed song. Damage add on, etc..." "Healer. Heal. Mezz. This armour... this staff... you can attack this colour..." It was claustrophobic and limiting. In DAoC all you were were what you could attack with, and what you can heal with. All your skills relate to killing or preventing killing. It was shallow and it was frustrating - with so few paths, it is inevitable that there is an Ultimate Speccing, and so you generate clone after clone, no secrets, no individuality. The game turned characters into a large version of a GAP commercial, spewing out clone after clone with the same clothes and same character.
So I waited for DE. And I have been so looking forward to a game that allows you the freedom to play what you want to play.
LET US SCREW UP. Let us gimp ourselves. Let us play one legged herders who collect cats and make spells. If we screw up, thats our choice, let us have it. Please don't offer us a beautiful game and then shut down our choices within it. If people want to choose classes, they should be allowed, but don't make it mandatory.
Damini, ex champion UO cat herder, ex UO fortune teller and ex owner of a small house that I lost someone in Felluca...
Followed by...
I think half the reason I'm so resentful is the fact that I was lured into this game BECAUSE of the skill system and the lack of classes, as I'm sure so many people were, and to have it change now betrays the whole reason I began following this game in the first place.
Classes only really work towards creating an ideal. To me, they are the factors that mutilate a game from a role play into a power players game. If you have a WARRIOR mould, then it stands to reason you have an ideal warrior, as these skills all mount towards that. Within hours, you will get guides to the ideal statting of a certain class, and then you get all the claims of nerfing and imbalance as The Ultimate Version of One Class is better than The Ultimate Version of another, and the game is constantly having to evolve to swing the nerf bat and then in turns apply the plasters and wipe away the tears. In contrast with that, how can that compete with the warrior who decides she wants to heal as well? You can't say in that instant one is better than the other, because they are different. They are allowed to be different, and therefore non-comparable.
Yes, there are plenty of players that like a class base, it allows you to become the best at something within your class, it allows you to not foul up, it allows you to chose The Best Class for being uber, The Best Class for fighting, The Best Class for blah, etcetera...
I was not born with actress stamped on my bum. I wasn't born with scientist or hunter instructions tattoed somewhere in my hairline, nestled next to the 666. If you want a role play game, then it would stand to reason free choice would be an aspect of it.
People *will* create their own class systems in a free choice system. Those that want to play a tough warrior will be able to find the guide to playing that. Those that want to be the uber over lord of all they survey will find a way to do it. You don't need classes. All classes seem to do is guide the people who would spec that way anyway, and limit those that wouldn't.
If classes really and truly have to be implemented, I would prefer that they become like careers rather than classes. You train towards a certain career, and then take it up and identify yourself as that. If you leave the parameters of that job, you are no longer employed in that area. Nothing set in stone, advice rather than rules, and if people want to wear the shiny blue pants of the uber over lord career path, then the uniform cupboard and name badge come with the job, but if they want to change leave the title behind and collect your P45.
It's just very frustrating for us people who became fixated on thsi game due to the lure of no classes and a UO style skills system, only for that to be completely reversed. I'm not saying YOU HAVE RUINED TEH GAME OMFG!!, but for me you have completely changed the ambience of it.
Conspiracy theories abound!
In response to the Why I hate classes question, have some cut and pasting from what I posted in the DE forums:
I've been following this game ever since I first heard of it, planning ahead, reading the news, plotting with friends, and when I heard this news I must say my heart sunk. I've never posted here before, but this development has disappointed me so much I felt I had to at least have my say, even if I'm just shouting into the wind.
My original MMORPG was UO, and I loved this game. Hell, I was gimped to oblivion on occasions, a high class warrior that was heavily specced in herding(!!) at one point (hey, little Bo Peep needs to beef up when its trolls and not wolves harrassing the herd). I had a mage that could tame, so I could have an army of domesticated cats at my bidding. Other people would teach, mentor, and my character evolved. I loved the fact that you could meet someone and they were a mystery - the chatty person in the plain clothes turned out to be a master mage with a castle. The flashy person riding the impressive horse holding the massive halberd turned out to be a master tailor but as useful as a chocolate saucepan when it came to a fight. The newby character learning magic could come past and heal you just when you thought you were about to die. The game didn't discrimate against you because of skills, it didn't patronise you and coach you into choosing The Right Skills, if you became a gimp, hell you're a gimp, but at some stage a carpenter who can also play songs really well is going to be useful. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day...
I left UO in the end simply because the system became too unbalanced. Cheats had left the money system hyperinflated, e-bay meant that castles were for business men rather than students, and that was what made me leave. After four years, the game was still playable, but the financial system was damaged.
DAoC was my next game. God, DAoC is pretty, and it did well to create a real tangible sense of another world, or space and geography, but the class systems MURDER the game. I can look at any character and tell you exactly how you should be specced, the ultimate skills, I can look at you and say "Skald. Speed song. Damage add on, etc..." "Healer. Heal. Mezz. This armour... this staff... you can attack this colour..." It was claustrophobic and limiting. In DAoC all you were were what you could attack with, and what you can heal with. All your skills relate to killing or preventing killing. It was shallow and it was frustrating - with so few paths, it is inevitable that there is an Ultimate Speccing, and so you generate clone after clone, no secrets, no individuality. The game turned characters into a large version of a GAP commercial, spewing out clone after clone with the same clothes and same character.
So I waited for DE. And I have been so looking forward to a game that allows you the freedom to play what you want to play.
LET US SCREW UP. Let us gimp ourselves. Let us play one legged herders who collect cats and make spells. If we screw up, thats our choice, let us have it. Please don't offer us a beautiful game and then shut down our choices within it. If people want to choose classes, they should be allowed, but don't make it mandatory.
Damini, ex champion UO cat herder, ex UO fortune teller and ex owner of a small house that I lost someone in Felluca...
Followed by...
I think half the reason I'm so resentful is the fact that I was lured into this game BECAUSE of the skill system and the lack of classes, as I'm sure so many people were, and to have it change now betrays the whole reason I began following this game in the first place.
Classes only really work towards creating an ideal. To me, they are the factors that mutilate a game from a role play into a power players game. If you have a WARRIOR mould, then it stands to reason you have an ideal warrior, as these skills all mount towards that. Within hours, you will get guides to the ideal statting of a certain class, and then you get all the claims of nerfing and imbalance as The Ultimate Version of One Class is better than The Ultimate Version of another, and the game is constantly having to evolve to swing the nerf bat and then in turns apply the plasters and wipe away the tears. In contrast with that, how can that compete with the warrior who decides she wants to heal as well? You can't say in that instant one is better than the other, because they are different. They are allowed to be different, and therefore non-comparable.
Yes, there are plenty of players that like a class base, it allows you to become the best at something within your class, it allows you to not foul up, it allows you to chose The Best Class for being uber, The Best Class for fighting, The Best Class for blah, etcetera...
I was not born with actress stamped on my bum. I wasn't born with scientist or hunter instructions tattoed somewhere in my hairline, nestled next to the 666. If you want a role play game, then it would stand to reason free choice would be an aspect of it.
People *will* create their own class systems in a free choice system. Those that want to play a tough warrior will be able to find the guide to playing that. Those that want to be the uber over lord of all they survey will find a way to do it. You don't need classes. All classes seem to do is guide the people who would spec that way anyway, and limit those that wouldn't.
If classes really and truly have to be implemented, I would prefer that they become like careers rather than classes. You train towards a certain career, and then take it up and identify yourself as that. If you leave the parameters of that job, you are no longer employed in that area. Nothing set in stone, advice rather than rules, and if people want to wear the shiny blue pants of the uber over lord career path, then the uniform cupboard and name badge come with the job, but if they want to change leave the title behind and collect your P45.
It's just very frustrating for us people who became fixated on thsi game due to the lure of no classes and a UO style skills system, only for that to be completely reversed. I'm not saying YOU HAVE RUINED TEH GAME OMFG!!, but for me you have completely changed the ambience of it.
- guild title was Psychotic Monk or something.
