More evidence of the nanny state

[Tom]

With effect from 1st January 2005, Part P (Electrical safety) of the Building Regulations will come into force, these mean that only very limited work can be carried out by non-certified people without notification to the local Building Control authority.

Work which can be carried out by a non-certified individual without notification consists of:

- Replacement of fittings such as sockets, switches and light fittings.
- Replacement of the cable for a single circuit where it has been damaged.
- Work that is not in the bathroom or kitchen and consists of:
- Adding additional lighting, light fittings and switches, to an existing circuit.
- Adding additional sockets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial main.
- Installing additional earth bonding.

All this is conditional upon the use of suitable cable and fittings for the application, that the circuit protective measures are unaffected and suitable for protecting the new circuit, and that all work complies with all other appropriate regulations.

All other work must either be carried out by certified individuals/companies or notified to the local Building Control before work begins, this includes:

- All new or modifications to the electrical wiring within bathrooms or shower rooms.
- Installation or modification of electric underfloor or ceiling heating.
- Garden lighting or power installation.
- Other specialist electrical installation, examples being, Photovoltaic Solar and micro CHP power systems.

If in doubt, check with the local Building Control.

These rules do apply to DIY activities, anyone carrying out DIY changes which are notifiable will have to submit a building notice to the local authority before starting work and pay the fee to have the work inspected and tested.

In future, problems may be encountered when trying to sell a property which has had notifiable electrical work carried out but for which the appropriate certificate cannot be produced

From another forum, so I don't have the link, but it does seem rather heavy-handed. I seem to recall similar legislation regarding double glazing, personally I think they can shove it up their arse, but I'm not ignorant of electrical safety, or common sense. Perhaps its designed for those really bad DIYers?

Anybody who buys my house whenever I move, and demands these certificates of whatever, can fuck right off. I wouldn't want people that ignorant moving into my neighbourhood anyway.

 

[mank!]

I don't think anything listed is particularly DIY, unless you intend to fit a Photovoltaic Solar and micro CHP power system over the weekend?

 

[Athan]

Tom, whilst you and others may well know what they're doing there are enough people that don't for this kind of legislation to be needed. If you really can do all that (top list) work safely then go do some evening course and get qualified. Don't blame the government, blame the shonky cowboys who don't know what they're doing, do such work badly, and in the end cause someone to be injured/killed (or a house burned down) because of it.

When I first moved to Coventry I lived in a house that had shonky wiring, it cost the friends I lived with over a grand to get it fixed (doing so within a year was a condition of their mortgage). If said cowboys had gotten the original work done properly there wouldn't have been any need. From the bad state of the earthing and other such protection it's a wonder none of us got electrocuted before it got fixed.

-Ath

 

[Tom]

I could do any of the above work. Its not hard. What I object to is the government telling me what I can and can't do in my own home - fair enough with gas installations, where there is a real risk of serious damage ensuing, but they're concentrating on the wrong aspects of electrical installations. Many people don't understand the difference between 6A lighting cable and 30A ring main cable, but I can tell you that if you wire your mains circuit with the former, you're going to have a fire on your hands.

Why should I be required to pay somebody to inspect work that I've done? What next, pay somebody to check the quality of the plastering on my walls? How about a government regulator to ensure people stop using 3-way extension plugs in series?

 

[ECA]

government computer supervisors to make sure your not looking at kiddy porn is probably next.

OMGZ GROOMING ON THE INTERNETZ CHAT ROOMZ! OHNOEZ!
/sigh

 

[Alliandre]

It does seem abit OTT. Though I think my Dad's Electrical Engineering degree should cover us..

 

[MYstIC G]

I could do any of the above work. Its not hard. What I object to is the government telling me what I can and can't do in my own home - fair enough with gas installations, where there is a real risk of serious damage ensuing, but they're concentrating on the wrong aspects of electrical installations. Many people don't understand the difference between 6A lighting cable and 30A ring main cable, but I can tell you that if you wire your mains circuit with the former, you're going to have a fire on your hands.

Why should I be required to pay somebody to inspect work that I've done? What next, pay somebody to check the quality of the plastering on my walls? How about a government regulator to ensure people stop using 3-way extension plugs in series?

For the same reason that you should have to work out your own tax... because it removes the governments liability but lets them retain the vito to randomly fuck you over should the mood take them.

 

[rynnor]

Anybody who buys my house whenever I move, and demands these certificates of whatever, can fuck right off. I wouldn't want people that ignorant moving into my neighbourhood anyway.

I am that really bad DIY'er! But actually I'm not bad at electrics - probably remnant of a mis-spent youth making bugs and stuff

I had actually considered fitting my own photovoltaic solar panels on my house to heat the household water and am a bit irritated to find that the council will want its nose around - particularly as they should be encouraging such environmentally friendly actions.

Finally, I have been trying to see what kind of mischief you could actually create with one - I mean if you screw up the worst thing that can happen is that it wont generate any power???

Your more likely to cause havoc with a lightbulb so it makes me wonder what kind of person actually had a hand in drafting it and if they actually knew anything about the subject...

The obvious thing to do when selling is to simply say it was carried out before this act came into force!

 

[Athan]

Many people don't understand the difference between 6A lighting cable and 30A ring main cable, but I can tell you that if you wire your mains circuit with the former, you're going to have a fire on your hands.

Why should I be required to pay somebody to inspect work that I've done?

Precisely because of the bit I've bolded above. Botched electrical work CAN be dangerous, thus it needs to be regulated.
I'd hazard a guess that these regulations have been changed PRECISELY because there have been accidents, injuries and possibly even deaths, due to botched work.

-Ath

 

[Tom]

Rynoor, I think they're referring to the types of systems that connect back to the electricity meter, to 'turn the meter backwards' so you pay less. Most people are terrified of fuseboxes, understandable, but its not rocket science to just pull the 30A fuses out before you work on the box. Afterwards, all you do is tell the electricity board and a chap comes around and reseals it, for free.

Athan, I think you've missed my point - the types of things they want to regulate are large installations, which aren't difficult at all. They things that cause the most problems are the small installations. When I bought this place, some dozy fucker had wired my central heating boiler mains using a piece of 13A flex into the back of a downstairs ring socket! Thats the kind of shit that causes problems, and they're not proposing anything along those lines.

 

[Paradroid]

I don't see anything wrong with the regulations, makes perfect sense to me.

Rynoor, I think they're referring to the types of systems that connect back to the electricity meter, to 'turn the meter backwards' so you pay less. Most people are terrified of fuseboxes, understandable, but its not rocket science to just pull the 30A fuses out before you work on the box. Afterwards, all you do is tell the electricity board and a chap comes around and reseals it, for free.
...

....and the paramedics to restart your heart, then the surgeons can start sewing together the ugly wounds that you used to call "hands".

I'm sorry, but even that briefest of explanations is dangerous to people with half a brain (what's that old saying - a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing?)...

Unless you can get the electricity company to completely shut down the supply to your house (which will involve most of your street too), then there's still a danger of being electrocuted when working on "the box". On removing the fuse, yes, you have stopped the leccy from entering your internal circuits (so you could then work on your internal fittings etc). But removing the fuse has no effect on the 415V 3-phase supply that's coming into your house and is sitting quite happily in "the box" (waiting to be accidentally touched by some know-nothing cowboy/DIY-enthusiast).

This legislation will help stop the cowboys imo.

...and there I was, almost finished my homemade nuclear reactor and they bring out more legislation...fekin nanny state!!!!

 

[Tom]

No I mean the 30A fuses for the box itself (the L and N coming from the ground), not the circuit fuses. The big, fuckoff, whacking great LORK AT ME I AER THE BIG FUSSES with the electricity company tag. Basically, unplug them and all the electrons stop flowing around your house. And no, you can't get electrocuted, unless you take an axe to the pipe. Which would take massive brute force.

Anyway, I resent people telling me what I can and can't do. And people who mess around with things they know nothing about deserve what they get.

 

[nath]

My sachet of microwaveable porridge oats politely cautioned me that it will be hot when cooked.

Sidestepped a land mine there, I can tell you.

 

[Turamber]

The amount of new legislation and requirements on all of us is quite ridiculous. As some of you may know I am, for my sins, an accountant - and I can tell you I am just disgusted at the extra regulatory burden being put on Limited companies and self employed individuals in this country whilst making sound bite comments to the press that they are seeking to "reduce the burden", but then doing nothing of the sort.

The latest piece of work they've dreamed up is a 16 page form which has to be filled out by every Limited company in the country reporting if any Director's have shares in their own companies.

So I'm not surprised to see them producing even more requirements and tests in other fields of life. If only there was a viable alternative to the current Government, unfortunately (imho) the Conservatives and the Liberal Dem's are still a joke without a decent policy between them.

 

[rynnor]

Rynoor, I think they're referring to the types of systems that connect back to the electricity meter, to 'turn the meter backwards' so you pay less.

Yeah I have thought about doing that if I generate excess power but I'll wait n see how much the panels actually put out in reality...

 

[oblimov]

if u open ur electric box you will be fined by the electric company that supplies you

trust me i work for em and i have to report daily on this kind of thing where people tamper with it

but yeah this is a nanny state example in the extreme, people should be allowed to do whatever they want in their own property as long as it doesnt damage anyone else or their property

the one thing that makes sense for this is things like plumbing in flats where a person could flood their downstairs neighbour as a result of shoddy work

 

[sibanac]

if u open ur electric box you will be fined by the electric company that supplies you

trust me i work for em and i have to report daily on this kind of thing where people tamper with it

but yeah this is a nanny state example in the extreme, people should be allowed to do whatever they want in their own property as long as it doesnt damage anyone else or their property

the one thing that makes sense for this is things like plumbing in flats where a person could flood their downstairs neighbour as a result of shoddy work

But a shoddy wireing job can burn the place down.

 

[oblimov]

hmm i guess so but then again as long as its only ur place that would get burnt to peices them im not bothered tbh

 

[Will]

hmm i guess so but then again as long as its only ur place that would get burnt to peices them im not bothered tbh

Have you ever lived in a flat?

 

[oblimov]

jeso ur all so picky

ok if you live in a detached house i dont give a fuck

surely the govt should just get like a housing inspector to examine each house once a year or something like that for a one off fee like 50£ or something like that?

 

[Tom]

if u open ur electric box you will be fined by the electric company that supplies you

If you work on the box, and break the seal to do so (not difficult), they won't fine you anything, so long as you tell them about it. And tbh, the seals are on the meter, not the box.

Its dead easy to circumvent the meter. The difficult bit is replacing the seals. All you have to do is take the neutral from your box, and feed it to a large spike, buried in the ground, before it gets to the meter. Thats it. Do that, and the meter doesn't go round. Perfectly safe, highly illegal (and not something that I condone, its on the same scale as dole cheats).

 

[oblimov]

rofl ill try and dig out some of the pictures we have around here to put people off doing the above

one dude tried this but the spike went live and his pet cat brushed past it and went bzzzzz then he tried to sue rofl!

yes elextricity theft is up their with dole cheats and council tax fraud imo

 

[Tom]

rofl ill try and dig out some of the pictures we have around here to put people off doing the above

Heh yes please, I always enjoy laughing at the expense of fuckwits. You must see some right pillocks