Monkeys

[Gamah]

Read in the new scientist yesterday that monkeys have been observed using spears to fish. Until now it was though humans were the only animals who used weapons, and imo is another plus point to the evolution model.

Discuss!

 

[eksdee]

shit the bed! that's pretty impressive/scary.

 

[Samaroon|Terracotta]

"That, is one smart primate."

 

[DocWolfe]

they've probably watched humans do it and copied them - not necessarily with their own innitiative though.

 

[Tilda]

I dont have the New Scientist to hand (its at home QQ) but are you sure this was fishing? I read a similar BBC story where they used them to hunt, but to stab other animals, and to stab into holes in trees where animals were hiding. I dont recall a mention of fishing!

 

[Gamah]

I dont have the New Scientist to hand (its at home QQ) but are you sure this was fishing? I read a similar BBC story where they used them to hunt, but to stab other animals, and to stab into holes in trees where animals were hiding. I dont recall a mention of fishing!

Said "Spear Fish" iirc.

 

[krall]

Use straws to get ants out of there nest - so why not stab a fish. To me(but im not a monky ofc) there aint to far from that - to pick up ants from undergrounds whit an objekt - to fishing whit an objekt. To the teori about monkys observing humans - funny it havent been observed by humans befor since we have been doing it for God know how long - so I safely think we can disclude that

Think if u look hard allmost every thing we do as Humans u will find in some knid of animal. The reason for this is simple - thou choking for some - we are animals. Thou religion, ideologi and philosophy have tryed to remove us from natur, and give us a "special" place in the world. This is in my mind one of the major reasons why the naturresurses are being used whit a haste that is mindblowing - coz we think we are above natur and not a part of it.

Conclusion.

Monky drop the stick again please - u never know where it will take u and ur planet.:touch:

 

[Vladamir]

Dooooooom!

It's only a matter of time until humans start throwing poo at each other

 

[Gamah]

Dooooooom!

It's only a matter of time until humans start throwing poo at each other

You already do that with your scat fettish.

 

[Vladamir]

You already do that with your scat fettish.

Yeah and you love every crusty, smelly, scat-flinging second of it

 

[Bahumat]

Dooooooom!

It's only a matter of time until humans start throwing poo at each other

AAAAAAAAAAEEEEEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIII

Spoiler

only one man can save us!

 

[Ezteq]

dirty boys stoppit this is actually a really interesting thread where all kinds of discussions can be held about evolution and the position of man and you reduce it to well... we all know what you just reduced it to!


anyway back on topic and wearing eye protection whilst holding up a riot shield..

i think its fascinating watching animals learn new things one example that is a bit more light hearted was in an orangutan rescue station the mother had observed the people and after they left she began copying their behaviour, she would take her soap down to the river and wash with it (ok so she ate some too because of the high fat content this was ok though) and then in the evenings she would take a pan and put it on the stove (unlit) and shake it about a bit, she obviously didnt know why she was doing this but she recognised the correct sequence of events to follow and knew that the pan had to be placed on the stove and jiggled it really was very sweet to watch because she tried so hard.

the thing about chimps using spears i cant say that i find disturbing in the least, and im sure that sometime soon they will be observed using a rock to beat prey to death (if this hasnt happened already). I remember when the footage of the chimps hunting party went out and the uproar that caused to watch the chimps hunting a monkey in such an organised way made people feel outraged... and yet they watch the evening news and dont seem to bat an eyelid at what humans do, odd creatures we are.

there are so many quirky and interesting behaviours that animals have and people know very little about them, maybe instead of us looking at what animals may have learnt from us or what they do that is similar to us we should be looking at how they work that is different to us and then we can learn from them maybe... or are we too arrogant to do that?

 

[Chronictank]

there are so many quirky and interesting behaviours that animals have and people know very little about them, maybe instead of us looking at what animals may have learnt from us or what they do that is similar to us we should be looking at how they work that is different to us and then we can learn from them maybe... or are we too arrogant to do that?

animals work off instinct, and react to their surrounding in most cases there is little or no thought put into concequences or future planning. I think it would be a giant leap backwards to de-evolve society to that.
Far as class structure is concerned again, primates have the equivalent of a monarchy class structure, again a few steps backward.
I dont think its arrogance that stops us applying actions from the animal kingdom, more that there is no plausible reason to do it.
Maybe i'm being short sighted but i personally cant think of anything atm

Back on topic, its said before the monkey probably saw someone do it rather than work it out itself so planet of the apes isn't around the corner just yet

 

[Bahumat]

animals work off instinct, and react to their surrounding in most cases there is little or no thought put into concequences or future planning. I think it would be a giant leap backwards to de-evolve society to that.
Far as class structure is concerned again, primates have the equivalent of a monarchy class structure, again a few steps backward.
I dont think its arrogance that stops us applying actions from the animal kingdom, more that there is no plausible reason to do it.
Maybe i'm being short sighted but i personally cant think of anything atm

Back on topic, its said before the monkey probably saw someone do it rather than work it out itself so planet of the apes isn't around the corner just yet

I agree with Teh T4nk!!!!!

 

[noblok]

What's most fascinating about this is that people always say how 'smart' animals are and how little difference there is with us when seeing these examples. However, had it been a human using a stick to catch some fish, we'd think of it as primitive (use a fishing rod/bow!). This just goes to show that there is in fact a significant difference between animals and humans: what's extraordinary for an animal is below average for a human.

That being said: it is pretty smart, for a monkey.

 

[Ezteq]

personally chronic i believe we could all take a leaf out of these guys book http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo

now come on who would see that as being a leap backwards eh?

"problem sir?"

"yes this wine seems to be corked"

"i do apologise and in order to avert an uncomfortable scene why dont we all have lots of sex with everyone to make ourselves feel better"

"ah capital idea old boy, after that i should like to see the dessert menu"


but seriously though i mean we could learn from nature things like termite mounds have internal heating and cooling systems all relevant to their structure, we could use this i mean obviously adapt stuff but rather than all this "progress" we seem to be so intent on making maybe the human being should look at ways to co exist and i know the animals dont all sit together and sing a few bars of the circle of life beofe deciding how best to do things but they do it naturally and we could definately adopt some of these methods to make life better for folk because as much as progress has given us so far we still seem to be doing a bit shit tbh.

 

[Hawkwind]

but seriously though i mean we could learn from nature things like termite mounds have internal heating and cooling systems all relevant to their structure, we could use this i mean obviously adapt stuff but rather than all this "progress" we seem to be so intent on making maybe the human being should look at ways to co exist and i know the animals dont all sit together and sing a few bars of the circle of life beofe deciding how best to do things but they do it naturally and we could definately adopt some of these methods to make life better for folk because as much as progress has given us so far we still seem to be doing a bit shit tbh.

Didn't the new German Parliment building have some natural air conditioning? Seem to remember it did from some docu I saw a few years back. Many cultures employed similar techniques copied from nature or just cleverly devised. Take a look at Wind Towers in Arab buildings, works very well.

Your right though, too often we rush in with new tech when something more simple would suffice.

Heard that NASA spent millions of dollars to design a biro pen that could write at any angle and in zero G conditions. When shown to the Russians they pointed out that a pencil worked just a well

 

[Chronictank]

but seriously though i mean we could learn from nature things like termite mounds have internal heating and cooling systems all relevant to their structure, we could use this i mean obviously adapt stuff but rather than all this "progress" we seem to be so intent on making maybe the human being should look at ways to co exist and i know the animals dont all sit together and sing a few bars of the circle of life beofe deciding how best to do things but they do it naturally and we could definately adopt some of these methods to make life better for folk because as much as progress has given us so far we still seem to be doing a bit shit tbh.

Egyptians used to use aqueducts to create air conditioning in the walls of houses to cool them. Persians used cisterns (just a place to collect water) which collected rain water, when it evaporated it was vented through buildings using wind towers to cool them.
In Turkey if you go to the blue mosque (i think its the blue mosque, it was one of the bigguns) it is naturally air conditioned using a series of ducts and vents

We "should" live together and co-exist, but like the animal kingdom, life is but a power struggle. Unfortunately for us, unlike the animal kingdom it doesnt help when theres a yank in a cowboy hat with a itchy trigger finger sitting in front of a big red button labelled "bombs away"

But as hawkwind says, sometimes we do lack the common sense to use the simple approach.

 

[Nate]

omg, they learnteded it from the Japanese!!