ML Backdrop idea

[VegetaFH1]

This is in NO WAY and ML or ML sign up of any kind, please keep that in mind while reading

I was just pondering the idea of Running 4fg's of hibs through entire ML's, BG steps and Group steps minus the solo steps cus there just a walk over.

The idea behind this is, there is 4 locations for each ML, BG and Group steps
(take into mind im working this off of ML5)

Currently in ML5 we have 2 per server, the ones up the north and the ones down south, and 2 servers... 4 locations in total

Heres the idea:
4 Full groups, doing 2x2 steps one at a time, 2 groups at one stop 2 groups at another, when we clear that location of steps we go south and continue with the other 2 groups (the first set of groups doing the first time take a brake) while thats in play and going fast (faster then normal) the first set of groups can go and pull afew minor mobs to get xp or whatever, when thats done u move to the second server, redoing the entire lot.. only backwords

Reason being:
Makes it all faster, less hassel and minimizes chances of loss'ing a step (considering the fact u have another group right behind u to back up up if nessacary)

Continue the idea:
After witch all thats done and dusted u can go stright for the main boss dude at .10 and all the other BG steps, cus honestly.. when will u see 4fg's of hibs loss to anything? (including albs and/or mids )

Now, call me crazy (witch i know some of u will) but this seems alot more fun, plus alot more chichat witch keeps ppl awake (esspically during ML5 group steps, it get WAY to boring) and with the add'ed bonus of "if we screw up, we have another group behind ready to rez and take over the step and we can get it next time around"

Warning:
This requires players to be fully dedacated to it, not just players who "Come on do what they need to do and go", this needs players who are willing to stay and help

Warning 2:
This Tactic has NOT bin tested on and ground, only in my head so "screw ups" may happen while preforming the test and end result of it, also i am not accountable for any major "screw ups" if someone else uses this tactic, please inform the user/leader of the BG while using this.. "THINGS MAY HAPPEN!"


Now, after all that explaining. im hungry.. please, do discuse this idea, as i want to hear some valueble info that i can use to perfect this idea of mine, and feather my knowledge about daoc also future stratigi that i may concocted in the near future, ill leave it at that boy and girls, have a nice day and/or sleep well and sweet dreams where ever u are from

VegetaFH1 Out
/Military Salute

P.S:Forgive the spelling mistakes and grammer "screw ups", not very good with that sorta thing lol

 

[Bugz]

4 fg's will struggle on certain steps unless they're really well constructed grps.

4.2 and 6.9 for example.

 

[Kaun_IA]

4 fg's will struggle on certain steps unless they're really well constructed grps.

4.2 and 6.9 for example.

yes, very true... but if thsoe ppl in those 4fgs are very good players.... been playing the game for years and know the ins and outs of chars.. then its doable.

 

[VegetaFH1]

Aye 4.2 wood be abit of a problem i must admit, but like Kaun_IA said, it wood be doable if they know exactly what they were doing

I suppose at some stages of 6.9 it wood be abit tough, but its very easy when u have the know how about that step, ive only done it twice and i know the ins and outs, ups and downs of it... but even then i still know nothing about that step, ive never leaded a group (or several groups) to complete that step and im not gonna make an attempt at it until ive gathered more info on it, Agro ranges and likelyness of completion with one group (Percentages and the like)

Also, having said all that.. can this topic be Stickied (i know its not an ML sign up or anything like that but its idea for future raid leaders to consider, i say again "THINGS MIGHT HAPPEN!" but its still an idea)

anyway
Veg out

 

[caldor78]

Over the last couple of weeks, I've arranged and participated in quite a few groupstep ML raids. I like your idea, but from these weeks experiences I'm having a real hard time to see this work out. The ignorance and lack of knowledge of this game shown by people are just frightening.

If something like this takes place and the majority of the people are like what I have experienced, it's gonna take at least double (possibly even more) the time of a regular FG raid even though you got the numbers to just steamroll everything.

The exception would of course be, if you could find a majority of people that has knowledge about the game (not speaking about "I've read it on VoS" or "I heard this is how it works") it would go real smooth.

 

[VegetaFH1]

Ur way of explaining things mate does fasinate me
Yes it is true that most players around the DAOC community have no idea of what goes on (they just want to get in there and get it done and then log out cus thats all they came for, but thats ok.. thats the way they want to play)

Over ur weeks experiance mate, did u notice anybody.. waiting behind for the last person out the door to check if they were ok?, like a healer or tank.. or even a caster, by my experiance ive noticed this in several ppl on prydwen (and quite afew on excal), most of these ppl (like 90% of em) have gone on to become very good leaders, becuase these ppl notice things that other simply do not (or do not look for)

Like.. lets pluk a name out from my sleeve here... Kesxex (not the most perfect example.. witch i hope he takes no offence to BUT), he has massive ammounts of knowledge about the game and by my standerds is a very good leader, he can take orders when they are given and gives them twice back when he leads, he leave no room for error and calulates everything in his head before hand, he knows what he is doing and how to go about doing it, and yes while he does lead he wood need alot of knowledge about the game, so its not the perfect example, but u know.. he didnt start off as a leader (he was just born one )

If everybody was like kes... hib wood be a desaster area.. (dont take offence plz) but while he can take orders and give them.. he still laks in common leadership (like being able to cooridinate attacks with other leaders), he has still got a huge ammount of protenchal witch he doesnt use, and i wish he did cus he has it at his finger tips, but again if everybody was like him then things wood get very messie

My point of saying all this is, if we didnt have those players who only come for what they need/want then we woodnt have the (cant say dedacation cus thats not what it is)...the jazz, these ppl go in.. beat it up, see what happens, and if thats ordered about its a force to be wreckened with, but if we had all leaders and players who knew everything about the game and so on.. we wood have conflicts about opinions and we wood never get the thing done

Ofc, its always an ideal situation to have players that know what the hell they are doing, BUT.. conlicts in opinion stop progress in any situation (may it be IRL or ingame)

*Warning: the example player used is someone ive come to trust for avery long time, i hope he does not mind me saying those things and if he wish's ill edit his name out of the post*

And yes, ur comment on "(not speaking about "I've read it on VoS" or "I heard this is how it works")" is very true, many ppl relay to much on that site (sometimes even myself) but ppl have forgotten that THAT site isnt updated anymore and leaves gaps for major errors in judgement and statagy

 

[Bugz]

And yes, ur comment on "(not speaking about "I've read it on VoS" or "I heard this is how it works")" is very true, many ppl relay to much on that site (sometimes even myself) but ppl have forgotten that THAT site isnt updated anymore and leaves gaps for major errors in judgement and statagy

That said, if everyone was to read VoS before a raid (say if ML 3 is on - to read ML 3 on VoS), there would be alot less confusion and issues. My first raids were lead with VoS up so I could minimize to read the tips etc. It is still a very helpful site and the main problem with today is, everyone expects the raid leader to take care of EVERYTHING. If they automatically don't get credit, they let the raid leader sort it out instead of double checking etc. If people don't know what items to bring, they spam the raid leaders. Things which can be sorted out by intiative.

I see no real appropiate way to fix such a thing except by introducing bans, kicks etc., something that isn't generally appreciated. That said, you could get by every ML if people just listened to the raid leader but often that is not the case (hihi tuug).

This doesn't mean your idea of 4 FG's doing everything couldn't work. With persistance, the right classes and perhaps 1 animist per group, they would be able to get very far during the ML's. However, I still don't think it'd be faster than a ML Rush with 100+ people since even though you have bad grant credits etc., you are still able to shine in certain steps/areas. Take ML 9 for example - took 57 mins with roughly 150 in the BG. For a 4 fg setup, it could be pushing 2 hours+.

It is an intriguing idea however and certainly one to consider pursueing. Leading a BG of 150-200 people is extremely stressful and mind-numbing and a 4 fg bg (perhaps even 6 fg's -> 48 people) would make things alot more bearable for the leader whist also setting a nice, happy atmosphere.

 

[VegetaFH1]

Emm.. Buggy, a raid leader is suppose to take care of everything, thats why its there, cus u said.. u were making it and u were leading
Leaders take the shit for everything, thats part of the job, but yes.. even tho leaders are suppose to take care of it.. id still like players to check there ML journal before they shout "didnt get credit".. "grant credit"

I sware it.. if i ever lead an ML (god forbid) and i hear "grant credit" or something along those lines in a none polite way, and it turns out they already have the step.. i wont give a warning ill immeditly ban them from BG and "U cuase to much shit for me, slowing the BG down for saying "Grant credit" when u already have the dam step, BUGGER OFF" and that will be that.....Sorry, i tend to have zero tolerance for idiots who dont care about the BG leaders health, and really when they have to lead ppl with another 150 players.. i mean yes "BG leaders are suppose to take care of everything" BUT it is still possable for a BG leader to have an ANURIZUM

Im saying this before i lead an RvR BG.. wonderful

ppl know my style of leading, very stratigic, very open to opinions, but dam well agressive (esspially against mids), i only lead RvR for specific reasons, such as.. if i tryed leading a Co5, not enough ppl to make any tactful ideas, wont lead an ML raid cus honesty.. if i tryed id fail and ask someone else to take over (and we ALL know how that ends up), wont lead an Arti raid cus i havent got the knowhow abot arti's AT ALL, so that just leave RvR, witch is where all my thinking goes into

But enough about that, we all have our differant ways and styles of leading (well.. the BG leaders anyway lol) but im open to ideas about this.. mass slow and painful (yet kinda gareeted way) of getting ML group and BG steps

Was thinking of group just there, and yes an animist per group wood work

Animist - (Verdent path or Aboreal path)
PBAE - (normal, stand there.. blow it up PBAE)
Bard - (one for end and extra fop/sor whateve)
Bard - (one for pow + speed and the other fop/soe"witchever isnt up")
Druid - (Basic heals and buffs, for once no Nature druids in a tactic....)
Tank - (preferably shield tank)
Misc - (one wood most helpfuly be a ranger, RANGER class ranger instead of Melee silly ranger)
Misc - (Light tank, EG: Vampire, NS, BM...lol)

Sadly no spot for Menta's or Eld's...<shrug> ill think something up

 

[Bugz]

Emm.. Buggy, a raid leader is suppose to take care of everything, thats why its there, cus u said.. u were making it and u were leading
Leaders take the shit for everything, thats part of the job, but yes.. even tho leaders are suppose to take care of it.. id still like players to check there ML journal before they shout "didnt get credit".. "grant credit"

I sware it.. if i ever lead an ML (god forbid) and i hear "grant credit" or something along those lines in a none polite way, and it turns out they already have the step.. i wont give a warning ill immeditly ban them from BG and "U cuase to much shit for me, slowing the BG down for saying "Grant credit" when u already have the dam step, BUGGER OFF" and that will be that.....Sorry, i tend to have zero tolerance for idiots who dont care about the BG leaders health, and really when they have to lead ppl with another 150 players.. i mean yes "BG leaders are suppose to take care of everything" BUT it is still possable for a BG leader to have an ANURIZUM

Im saying this before i lead an RvR BG.. wonderful

ppl know my style of leading, very stratigic, very open to opinions, but dam well agressive (esspially against mids), i only lead RvR for specific reasons, such as.. if i tryed leading a Co5, not enough ppl to make any tactful ideas, wont lead an ML raid cus honesty.. if i tryed id fail and ask someone else to take over (and we ALL know how that ends up), wont lead an Arti raid cus i havent got the knowhow abot arti's AT ALL, so that just leave RvR, witch is where all my thinking goes into

But enough about that, we all have our differant ways and styles of leading (well.. the BG leaders anyway lol) but im open to ideas about this.. mass slow and painful (yet kinda gareeted way) of getting ML group and BG steps

Was thinking of group just there, and yes an animist per group wood work

Animist - (Verdent path or Aboreal path)
PBAE - (normal, stand there.. blow it up PBAE)
Bard - (one for end and extra fop/sor whateve)
Bard - (one for pow + speed and the other fop/soe"witchever isnt up")
Druid - (Basic heals and buffs, for once no Nature druids in a tactic....)
Tank - (preferably shield tank)
Misc - (one wood most helpfuly be a ranger, RANGER class ranger instead of Melee silly ranger)
Misc - (Light tank, EG: Vampire, NS, BM...lol)

Sadly no spot for Menta's or Eld's...<shrug> ill think something up

The thing is, running a RvR Raid is completely different to a ML Raid. In a RvR raid, you can be highly aggressive and highly demanding - for a ML Raid you cannot. And, speaking from a ML raid leader's point of view, it is not the leaders job to do everything. Personally, the reason I preclaimed 9.10, was because the raid occupants did MAKE it all of my job. Normally, on certain raids where I get 40-50 turnout, people have intiative and understand the steps they have to take in the raid, hence why I don't preclaim.

If you was to kick everyone who pm'd with credit but alrdy had it - the bg would decrease by 25%-30% by the end of the raid for certain ML's. Even for a 4 fg dedicated grp, people would still probably miss it.

Don't get me wrong, the raid leader has his duties, but you need to keep the balance between going crazy and being too leninent. With a 4 fg ML Rush, this may be harder or easier, it is hard to determine since less people = more room for errors but more people = more responsibility.

Personally, in terms of attitude to leading a raid I can think me, Kesex and Asterixxx (i think it was asterixxx) have it about right. If you noticed, my first ML 1-2 raids on the ML Rush went quite badly. That's because for different amounts of people, you have to find the centre of the box so to speak. Very few people could say much about a 4 fg leadership style as very few have had such numbers. I commanded about 5 fg's through ML 3 once and I can tell you it was painfully slow. Thus, I guess you could say, your attitude would have to be hugely enthuaistic and very tolerant. Since, as you stated yourself, your quite an aggressive raid leader, you may need to consider whether a 4 fg ml rush is something that is suited to you.

 

[Kishih]

The idea you are suggesting is well possible. Even in the old days there where groups/guilds who did many ML BG steps with just a few groups. Ofcource these were good players in balanced groups.

In zergs of 100-150 man a single person will make no difference. Even a well balanced group will have little influence in most steps. People will start acting by this: paying little attention, doing something else at the same time, busy keeping 2 accounts with the zerg. If you die, you get rezzed and the zerg goes on without any delay.
This would be totaly different in a 4 fg raid. If you don't pay attention, you will fail and waste time. If you act stupid, you will fail and waste time. People will look at you, it is your reputation.
Second, in a 4 fg raid, you will have a good chance at good loot.

As for how to run it, make sure you know in advance about pop times, location and routes. And make sure the leader of the second group (when splitting to 2 x 2 fg) knows those as well.

As for group set-up
druid
bard
warden/2nd bard/2nd druid
shield tank
misc
misc
misc
misc
Ani would be nice in a misc spot, same for another shield tank. But without there is not much problem. As for the BG steps you can switch classes per group as needed.

 

[vavires]

When reading this, im wondering if its so hard to lead ml raids on hib. And with ure pet spammers? I mean 4.2 is nerfed, u can just rush in the fortress, have some pb on the majority of the mobs inside. Then rush in for seti.
6.9, If ppl indeed know what to do, Its not that hard.

Toa has been nerfed to much, i find it a real shame.

Gl with ure 4Group setup, i see not why it would fail

Vav.