Midgard 2H versus Hibernia 2H (Large Weaponry)

[Puppet]

In response to a previous thread where was argued that Mid 2H was 'gimped' in some way, I decided to do some tests.

I created a Norse Warrior, with 10 points in DEX, 10 points in QUI and 10 points in INT. Furthermore I created a Celt Hero with 10 points in STR, 10 points in CON and 10 points in INT. That way, I was sure the stats for the warrior and hero where the same. I specced the Warrior 50 Sword, the Hero has 50 Large Weaponry.

See screenshots for this:

Warrior RR1
Hero RR1

I both equipped them the 'Magma Battler' - I choose this weapon because they are available to both realms, in the same speed (5.6 speed). Notice how both the warrior and the hero do not have any +skills at the time.

As you can see, both classes have 130 STR, 108 CON, 75 DEX, 60 QUI. Both have the exact same HP - however the warrior has higher base-WS. This can be explained by the inherent higher WS the warrior has, as introduced in patch 1.56

I let both the Warrior and Hero take a few swings on testmobs, which are designed in such a way you hit *CAP*-damage on them all the time.

Warrior:

12:02:17] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 406 damage!
[12:02:17] You critical hit for an additional 170 damage!
[12:02:22] You miss!
[12:02:27] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 406 damage!
[12:02:33] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 406 damage!
[12:02:39] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 406 damage!
[12:02:39] Kill me for Artefact XP dies!
[12:02:39] You get 96,468,992 experience points. (54,525,952 camp bonus)
[12:02:39] Your Magma Battler has gained experience!
[12:02:39] Kill me for Artefact XP drops  bag of coins.

Hero:

12:00:26] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 406 damage!
[12:00:31] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 406 damage!
[12:00:36] You miss!
[12:00:42] You miss!
[12:00:48] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 406 damage!
[12:00:54] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 406 damage!
[12:00:59] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 406 damage!
[12:00:59] You critical hit for an additional 162 damage!
[12:01:04] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 406 damage!
[12:01:04] Kill me for Artefact XP dies!
[12:01:04] You get 111,149,056 experience points. (58,720,256 camp bonus)

As you can see, there unstyled damage is *exactly* the same. I was interested in the style-damage aswell, so I put 4 styles on the quickbar for both classes:

Hero:
* Celtic Fury (anytime/taunt)
* Hibernian Force (side-positional) + followup
* Annihilation (back-positional)

Warrior:
* DrawOut (anytime/taunt)
* Northern Lights (side-positional) + followup
* Ragnarok (back-positional)

Damage for the Hero on the various styles:

12:01:18] You perform your Celtic Fury perfectly. (+218)
[12:01:18] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 570 damage!

[12:02:11] You perform your Annihilation perfectly. (+421)
[12:02:11] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 653 damage!

[12:03:21] You perform your Hibernian Force perfectly. (+201)
[12:03:21] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 589 damage!
[12:03:21] Kill me for Artefact XP is bleeding!
[12:03:21] You hit Kill me for Artefact XP for 4 damage!
[12:03:22] You prepare to perform a Obliteration!
[12:03:26] Kill me for Artefact XP is bleeding!
[12:03:26] You hit Kill me for Artefact XP for 3 damage!
[12:03:27] You perform your Obliteration perfectly. (+297)
[12:03:27] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 653 damage!
[12:03:27] The Kill me for Artefact XP can't attack as fast as normal!

Damage for the Warrior for various styles:

12:03:31] You perform your Draw Out perfectly. (+323)
[12:03:31] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 570 damage!

[12:03:26] You perform your Ragnarok perfectly. (+438)
[12:03:26] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 653 damage!
[12:03:26] The Kill me for Artefact XP can't attack as fast as normal!

[12:05:28] You perform your Northern Lights perfectly. (+319)
[12:05:28] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 584 damage!
[12:05:28] The Kill me for Artefact XP can't attack as fast as normal!
[12:05:29] You prepare to perform a Aurora!
[12:05:33] You perform your Aurora perfectly. (+411)
[12:05:33] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 661 damage!
[12:05:33] The Kill me for Artefact XP begins moving more slowly!

As you can see the damage on unstyled, anytime, backpositional are exactly the same. They have the same growth-rate, so no wonder. The side-positional (chain) is abit different, Hibs have a better style in the 1st in chain, Mids in the 2nd. Hibs do have a 3rd style in that chain, Mids do not (so I didnt test that).

So what happens if we add +weapon? I did some RvR to get them both to RR13. This adds +12 to their weapon-specialisations. See screenshots:


Hero RR13
Warrior RR13

As you can see, they both gain abit of WS, with the warrior still in the lead (about 5% more WS).

Their unstyled-damage goes up abit:

Warrior:

[12:08:50] You enter combat mode and target [Kill me for Artefact XP]
[12:08:50] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 432 damage!
[12:08:56] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 432 damage!
[12:09:02] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 432 damage!
[12:09:07] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 432 damage!
[12:09:13] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 432 damage!

Hero:

[12:06:57] You enter combat mode and target [Kill me for Artefact XP]
[12:06:58] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 432 damage!
[12:07:03] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 432 damage!
[12:07:08] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 432 damage!
[12:07:14] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 432 damage!
[12:07:19] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 432 damage!
[12:07:19] Kill me for Artefact XP dies!

Also their styled-damage improves:

Hero:

[12:07:38] You perform your Celtic Fury perfectly. (+321)
[12:07:38] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 636 damage!

Warrior:

[12:09:19] You perform your Draw Out perfectly. (+308)
[12:09:19] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 636 damage!

As you can see, they both benefit for the same ratio of increased RR and +skill.


Conclusion:

* Warriors and Heroes have the exact *same* damage-caps on most used styles (anytime, positionals). That is, at the same RR, same haste etc.

* Due to the higher WS of the warrior, he will hit typically slightly harder then a hero on targets in RvR where you dont cap on.


I hope this will, for once and for all, stop the 'but Midgard has shittier two-handed damage'-myth.


(incase you doubt my logs, Ive got them online here.

 

[Infanity]

Nice testing pup as usual ;]

Now stfu whiners

 

[Vodkafairy]

did you notice a considerable difference in end usage? it feels to me LW soaks up way more end then 2h for alb/mid does.

other then that, nice tests, but really obvious stuff give the public access to that fucking test server imo, would help a shitload. /sigh

 

[Frozodo]

aye good to see it is the same nice going pup

 

[Lethul]

should test with a briton arms too, since they have to doublespec (i think)

 

[Congax]

Very nice indeed, I want acces to such test server aswell :<

 

[Raven]

nice test but you should know by now when mids say something is gimped they mean its not more powerfull that everything else, therefore obviously its not working as intended, duh

 

[Amiga]

did you notice a considerable difference in end usage? it feels to me LW soaks up way more end then 2h for alb/mid does.

LW soaks up loads of end yes. At least compared to a hammer speced warrior =)

 

[Azathrim]

I don't think I have noticed that particular whine in a couple of years. I thought it was a rather dead horse, no?


And for gods sake... give everyone access to these sodding test servers!

It's ridicilous that it's limited so only a few select can choose what they feel like testing or not.

 

[Vladamir]

Nice testing Pup

 

[Huntingtons]

Nice testing Pup

i agree with mr. sexmonster :<

 

[Ghaladriel]

Nice test but what about Armsmans

 

[Dutch_NS]

Nice test but what about Armsmans

Armsman are not worth it to test

 

[censi]

what about the advantage the the mid 2hand "spec" is free and the other one has to spend half his skill points in it?

 

[kolomparas]

nice test ...btw how much slash hero has?cause as far as i know slash specc will increase the 2h dmg..or maybe i'm wrong

 

[Raven]

nice test ...btw how much slash hero has?cause as far as i know slash specc will increase the 2h dmg..or maybe i'm wrong

thats on alb, 1 hand spec makes no difference to LW spec on hib

 

[kolomparas]

thats on alb, 1 hand spec makes no difference to LW spec on hib

thx m8 so please give an armsman test to compaire with theese...

 

[Puppet]

Did the test with Armsman aswell, with Two Handed. Speccing slash (when wielding a 2H Slash weapon) didnt change anything, which makes sense --> it reduces variance, not caps.

Unstyled:
[18:45:41] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 406 damage!
[18:45:46] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 406 damage!

Taunt:

[18:46:24] You perform your Rile perfectly. (+219)
[18:46:24] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 570 damage!
[18:46:25] You prepare to perform a Rile!
[18:46:29] You perform your Rile perfectly. (+167)
[18:46:29] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 570 damage!
[18:46:31] You prepare to perform a Rile!
[18:46:35] You perform your Rile perfectly. (+229)
[18:46:35] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 570 damage!
[18:46:37] You prepare to perform a Rile!


Back-positional:
[18:46:59] You perform your Doubler perfectly. (+264)
[18:46:59] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 638 damage!
[18:47:10] You perform your Doubler perfectly. (+274)
[18:47:10] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 638 damage!

Side-postionals:
[18:47:46] You perform your Onslaught perfectly. (+267)
[18:47:46] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 653 damage!
[18:47:46] The Kill me for Artefact XP begins moving more slowly!
[18:47:47] You prepare to perform a Two Moons!
[18:47:52] You perform your Two Moons perfectly. (+313)
[18:47:52] You attack Kill me for Artefact XP with your sword and hit for 653 damage!

I did notice variance on the tests with 'really low' slash-spec (eg. 12, autotraining) but no variance once I went to 50 slash. Didnt have time to test that all in detail tho, but it does proof speccing slash reduces variance.

 

[censi]

I don't wanna see any Jackie Chan bollocks I want to see some windmilling in, and if you have a set of keys on you, stick them in your hand and make them count!

Whyoki, come at me.....

 

[thepain]

where did u test this what server please gief info as i want to test new char may be comeing back to the game and want to test some new chars/spec's any info would be nice nice testing btw

 

[Elrandhir]

Then I really can't see why the warrior is able to get both 1h and 2h in same line if the warrior does better damage also.

rather messed up if so tbh, because one thing is for sure, the moose dosent make up for it in a longshot.

 

[Azathrim]

That's a matter of oppinion I guess.

You're free to roll a warrior on Midgard if you prefer the free two-hander over Moose.

 

[Elrandhir]

That's a matter of oppinion I guess.

You're free to roll a warrior on Midgard if you prefer the free two-hander over Moose.

I prefer to play where my friends play, it dosent really matter to me how OPed chars on other realms are.

But as it was about comparising in this thread, I just can't understand why it is like it is, because from how it seemes it's pretty silly tbh.

 

[Muylaetrix]

is it just me or is comparing cap damage with specs useless ?

 

[Puppet]

is it just me or is comparing cap damage with specs useless ?

Not really, no. If we find out the caps, we know the potential damage of the styles. Your weaponskill determines how close to the cap you hit.

Its similar to casters, kinda. If you know the cap of your nuke, your INT determines how close to cap you hit.

 

[Belgerath]

Problem is Anh for hib has the uber stun Ragna does not thus making it way better, and the same damage so imo hib LW styles are still better

 

[atos]

what about the advantage the the mid 2hand "spec" is free and the other one has to spend half his skill points in it?

Far better positionals imo. =(

 

[Puppet]

Problem is Anh for hib has the uber stun Ragna does not thus making it way better, and the same damage so imo hib LW styles are still better

Style-utility is superiour in Alb Two Handed and Hib Large Weaponry, yeah. Mids get slightly better damage (WS) and free 1H/2H while retaining full defenses (shield and parry).

One can argue whats better, but damage-wise its the same