mid 2h, fingo take a lookie :p

[Arnor]

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=53069418&replies=99



ta-da, told you they werent the same

 

[Cala-more]

ufff:sleeping:

 

[Draylor]

Heh.

Is there a relevant post somewhere in the replies on that thread? Theres so many errors in the original post its worthless.

Pretty much as youd expect from VN boards really

 

[katt!]

so many letters, and no numbers

 

[Jiggs]

if its true, which it doesnt seem to be, i think any armsman would gladly take that drop in damage in order to have 50shield as well as a 2hd weapon....

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by Jiggs
if its true, which it doesnt seem to be, i think any armsman would gladly take that drop in damage in order to have 50shield as well as a 2hd weapon....

and give away his polearm option and his plate armor too ofc?



i dont care either way, but atleast someone is claiming (w/o logs or screenshots, shocker) that mid 2h sucks. but we dont have to go to vn to see that, just let jawz or tivook hit you

 

[Solid]

If that's the post on the Dev boards I replied on it a few times.

Basically Alb gets biggest potential Damage via Poles at expense of double speccing (and therefore less specpoints for Defence)

Hib gets adv spec of LW or CS without need for doublespeccing but doesnt get 1H for those invested points (basically they get Polearm like damage without the requirement for doublespeccing), and in the case of LW they get 2 damage types, but their LW line and their Shield line to not complement, ie at any one time you can not utilise both skills.

Mid gets free use of 2H weapons that uses the 1H styleset and weaponskill/spec. The mid 2H gets a base damage boost but no change in style damage (if you believe in style multipliers it means you multiplier goes down when you wield a 2H)

At the end of my post on the dev board I basically said:

Offense (Damage)

50 Pole 50 BaseWeap Armsman >> 50 LW/CS Hero >> 50 Weap Warrior >> 50 Baseweap/42-50 Shield Hero/Armsman

Defence

50 Baseweap/50 Shield Armsman == 50 Baseweap/50 Shield Hero == 50 Baseweap/50 Shield Warrior >>> 50 LW/CS 42 SHield 39 BaseWeap Hero == 50 Pole 42 Shield 39 BaseWeap Armsman >>> 50 Pole/50 BaseWeap/28 Parry Polearmsman

Basically the Hero and Armsman have multiple ways of speccing, they cna go for the super defensive route of 1H/Shield OR advanced weapon speccing of Poles/CS/LW for better offence.

Warriors ONLY have one option, as they dont get an adv spec, they can have same defence as the 1H/Shield Armsman with a smidge more base damage and free use of a 2H (that grants additional BASE damage only)

I personally think the free 2H Mid gets is fine, but the warrior needs an OPTION to be able to spec an advanced 2H only (ie cant use 1H if you only spec this, liek LW and CS) weaponline, and the option to spec a Str/Dex based Thrust line.

 

[Vell]

Warriors get throwing weapons spec!!!111oneone!

And about 20 more hps at level 50!!!11

 

[Jiggs]

Originally posted by Arnor
and give away his polearm option and his plate armor too ofc?



i dont care either way, but atleast someone is claiming (w/o logs or screenshots, shocker) that mid 2h sucks. but we dont have to go to vn to see that, just let jawz or tivook hit you

i was suiciding at mtk last night and horsma came out, so i just sat down, hit me like 760 or so with his liddle hammer

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by Jiggs
i was suiciding at mtk last night and horsma came out, so i just sat down, hit me like 760 or so with his liddle hammer

well, rr10's tend to hit kinda hardish


btw: nerf skaldss!!1111[[o

 

[geldor]

i think this quote just about sums up that hole thread

QuietcooljNomad
Midgard thinks no other tank should ever do better damage than them

 

[Solid]

I think a lot of people miss the point completely.

#1 Polearmsman have potential to do more damage than a Hero or warrior via 50 Pole 50 Base (and rightly so considering they double spec for it)

#2 Heros have a CHOICE of either a moderate damage 1H/Shield route or a High damage LW or CS 2H Adv Spec route that has higher damage than Mid Style lines

#3 Warriors have a choice of 1H/Shield with free 2H base damage boost and....erm [nothing].

A lot of mids would like adv style damage applied to their 2H spec (aka getting the same multiplier for 1H and 2H) but some of us sensible Mids actually just want an option to spec an advanced weaponline (at the expense of 1H damage/styles)

We may get a nice free 2H base damage but we dont really have a choice. I would liek to see a LW or CS equivalent spec for Mid (aka you dont get any 1H weaponspec from speccing an advanced styleset) just so Warriors, Thanes and Skalds can have an option to go exclusively 2H and get properly rewarded for it.

 

[F.I.V]

Midgard thinks no other tank should ever do better damage than them

Theoretically this is true.

Hibernia is the Magic Realm, Albion is the hybrid realm and Midgard is the Melee realm, so if other realms outdamage Midgard in melee whats the point of Midgard even being there?

 

[Wilson]

wtf is the Hybrid realm..

For that last time, they ment that by how the realm is..

Hibernia is the magic realm, as most of its classes of focused more towards magic

Midgard is the melee realm, as its more focused towards melee..
3 casters? 5 tanks?

The race with the most str in the game ect ect..

Albion seems to be the jack of all trades..

So, that Mid being the melee realm, is not the fact, they are super demi gods in melee combat, but their realm is more focused of the melee aspect..

 

[Solid]

Originally posted by Wilson
So, that Mid being the melee realm, is not the fact, they are super demi gods in melee combat, but their realm is more focused of the melee aspect..

Think you are a little comma happy my friend, less punctuation imo.

 

[F.I.V]

Main Entry: hy·brid
Pronunciation: 'hye-brihd'
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin hybrida
Date: 1601
1 : an offspring of two animals or plants of different races, breeds, varieties, species, or genera
2 : a person whose background is a blend of two diverse cultures or traditions
3 a : something heterogeneous in origin or composition : COMPOSITE <artificial hybrids of DNA and RNA> <a hybrid of medieval and Renaissance styles> b : something (as a power plant, vehicle, or electronic circuit) that has two different types of components performing essentially the same function
- hybrid adjective
- hy·brid·ism /-br&-"di-z&m/ noun
- hy·brid·i·ty /hI-'bri-d&-tE/ noun

Hibernia = Magic, Midgard = Melee, Albion = Magic/Melee AKA a Hybrid of the two realms. You kinda answered that, smartass, when you said:

Albion seems to be the jack of all trades

 

[Fightersuntzu]

Originally posted by F.I.V
Theoretically this is true.

Hibernia is the Magic Realm, Albion is the hybrid realm and Midgard is the Melee realm, so if other realms outdamage Midgard in melee whats the point of Midgard even being there?

Magic realm, melee realm.......its all about focus - Not about class abilities.

Midgardian tanks should not always own an albion or hiberian tank in melee, because if they did, who'd bother rolling a tank outside of midgard?

Hibernian casters should not always own mid or alb casters, because if they did, who'd bother rolling a mid or alb caster?

Of course, this leaves albion with...stealthers and clerics. Whee, the buffbotted stealther realm?! Not to mention a serious ranged damage output in midgard and difficulties with keeping ranged damage output in hibernia alive(infs popping everywhere, no tanks to guard).

For those of you who are lazy :

There wasnt a sign on the select realm screen that said "Click here to kill people in melee" "Click here to cast spells and kill people" "Click here to have a free buffbot and be forced to roll a stealther", because it would destroy game balance.

 

[Mardukk]

Lies , a warrior/zerker/savage with 2 handed can hit for insane damage with ragnarok.

 

[Flimgoblin]

his conjecture is that mid 2h doesn't get style damage based on it's 2h damage (i.e. the 40% doesn't get applied to the style damage) but it does for Alb/Hib

which is bullshit.

The 2h bonus gets applied to the base damage only for all three realms - if you want to compare styled damage, compare the growth rates (which are, funnily enough, pretty similar)

 

[Flimgoblin]

Bloke on VN that started the thread:

Bleh!
This kinda sux. As a result from feedback from Sethnaked and Aklash i decided to go to the bottom of this and fully compare my logs to the growthrate formulas.

I was suprised to find out that in fact all my logged results gave exaclty the same growthrate. As Sethnaked pointed out i had confused stylemultipliers with growthrates and did not have good enough understanding of how styles work to make the claims i did in this post.

For the record i hereby admit that my claims on this matter are false and appologise for this thread. Mids can rest assure that their 2H damage is infact not inheritly gimped when compared to Alb/hib 2H damage.

I do however find it peculiar that the math on stylemultipiers mathced so well. The conclusions did not seem that far fetched at all. Ill have to give some credit to rjw2183 for his sceptical attidute towards my reverse enginering efforts. It tunrs out that his definition off the word science was pretty good afterall

In general it is offcourse off no good to the game when false information gets spread like this. I can always defend myself by claiming i fell into the same trap as Mythic devs did long back when they doubled the growthrates for LA

I hereby ask the Jury to disregard from this thread. It will also be removed from the record.

 

[Draylor]

Originally posted by Draylor
Pretty much as youd expect from VN boards really

 

[old.Emma]

You`ll find that Polearm has the highest possible damage caps for an 2h specced tank. Which isnt a supprise at all there double speccing and very slow 2h weaps deserve to hit like a truck.

Example

5.7 spd TG sword with 35 quickness and 70 Sword
Cap's at around 830 dmg with Ragnarok

5.9 spd Spiked Hammer with 50 quickness and 70 Polearm
Cap's at around 896 dmg with Defender's Aegis

 

[Flimgoblin]

yep the extra growth rate and slightly slower speed makes Defender's Aegis pretty mean...

Is ragnarok in a chain? or just a rear style?

(aegis is second in a rear positional chain)

 

[Solid]

Now that the whole 2H debacle is out the way can we begin to have a look at some ideas to make Tanks, and esp Warriors a bit more fun to play?

I suggest a Thrust weaponline for midgard thats Str/Dex based and some fluff ability for Warriors/Armsman akin to Moose.

Armsman gets Polearm, Hero gets Celtic Spear warrior gets 4-7% extra weaponskill/basedamage.

Armsman gets 2H, Hero gets LW, Warrior gets free 2H

Armsman gets [nothing], Hero gets Moose, Warrior gets [nothing].

As you see imo both Armsmen and Warriors need some ability like Moose to balance them out compared to Heroes

And the 2H doublespeccing issue needs to be fixed imo.

Polearm doublespeccing is acceptable considering the damage it can deliver, but 2H should not require doublespeccing and should be liek LW, can use either Crush or Slash 2Hers with 2H spec and not require 1H base spec for damage variance/floor damage.

Would make 2H attractive enuff for Paladins and Armsman that they would/could forge shield spec for it.

The entire style line needs revisitn gtoo, but that can be said about most style lines in all 3 realms, however Alb 2H is particularly gimpo

 

[ulke]

Good thing is that as a 2h savage I don't have to worry about crappy stylebonus, all I need is a backstyle with a snare and i'mgood to go.
Basedmg is underrated when you hit below 2secs

 

[Solid]

If only some maths freak could devise a formula to calculate base damage of any char using weap delay, weaponspec, str(or dex) value, Qui value, etc etc.

Would be interestign to play with the numbers and see diff caps for diff classes.