Mercing and the consequences therein

[Hotteh]

I ask y ou to prepare yourselves, my threads arent known for being short and sharp.
After reading the recent(ish) news posting on the BWCSL website re: Mercing i got to a bit of a chin scratching,slapped my detective hat on and tried to find out the whys and wherefores.

My initial investigation led me to a Division 3 clan, MiNg-UK. Naming and shaming? Frankly im past caring, i hold no official capacity here so consider this an exercise in the practice of free speech.
It appears that, by playing KhAoS, MiNg have in fact been Mercing from clan ONE, who we all know are a far higher standard than Division 3 (apologies to ne other clans in division 3, my clan is Div3 and im sure ud all agree).
A good friend of mine, who i believe to be level headed and perfectly even in his approach to this subject, told me that KhAoS was used in a recent BWCSL game against them, whiping out most of their team on his own.
The new anti-mercing rule in place, hopefully we will see a stop to this in the major leagues but what of the previous instances?
I think everyone agrees that, whilst the anti-mercing system is new, the essence of "criminal" behavious is still in tact. MiNg-UK also played KhAoS in the first BWCSL game of the season against UNBD which inclines me to think hes been playing all season.
For those who dont know MiNg-UK are currently Joint 1st of Division 3S CO of the BWCSL.....do they owe this success to the sole efforts of their ringers?

I believe that any game where a ringer was used, be it for 3 minutes, 30 seconds , or the entire game should be examined and re-evaluated. This needs to send a strong message to clans, wonID masking is not difficult and it could still happen. If any points were gained from Mercing in a game, those points are rescinded from that clan but NOT given to the other clan. The points are merely declared voided off from the registrar.

 

[ZaPpeh]

I love EDD!



Im gay!

 

[RogueOne]

I'm well aware of the situation with MiNg-UK. Khaos was not a player for ClanOne until last week. However, prior to joining them, he had played for e2 in the WCG quals and hence is now ineligible to play for MiNg-UK. However, at the time, MiNg-UK were not in violation of any particular rule, so it seemed to me to be unfair to expect their earlier results to be replayed.

 

[ZaPpeh]

I'm sorry
I dont have a problem at all, im just being ghey

 

[old.D0LLySh33p]

You're always that aren't you?

 

[Hotteh]

Yes so now the clans playing MiNg and TDS and whoever, are going to have an advantage that the other clans did not , i.e no ringers.......i think its a bit of a shambles and the clans should be disciplined.
Slap on the wrist for something which has changed the shape of a league....hardly fair.
MING played UNBD without KhAoS for most of the game, and got heavily beaten. MiNg then went on to beat TM .......TM beat us last night.
Pish.......the games pish.

 

[RogueOne]

I can understand your frustration, but ultimately, the clans who used ringers weren't breaking the rules at the time, so it's not really acceptable for me to backdate penalties.

For what it's worth, by TM's own admission, they had a very different team out last night to that which they fielded vs MiNg-UK.

 

[ming-bloodlust]

MiNg-UK recruited KhAoS as a full member a few weeks before this season started. Long before week one the BWCSL admins had been notified of his wonid and it was ok'd for him to play for us this season. (as KhAoS had played for MMX last season we wanted the admins approval before we were going to play him in BWCSL)
When we recruited KhAoS it was not with the intention to take advantage of a marcing loophole for BWCSL(as has been written in other places), but with the intention of learning from him and developing as a clan. Recently our standard of play has dramatically improve throught out the squad... we now have 3 or 4 server at our disposal and are making a serious efforts to become a well disciplined clan capable of competing in div 1.
Of coarse KhAoS is the top player in our team..... but he is not the team. KhAoS does not win matches on his own. He plays a important role in our team but I think the rest of our squad deserve a some credit for there improvement this year.
I would like to apologise to all the clans that are unhappy about this issue.

 

[Ch3tan]

Right now this is difficult to say without offending anyone...

KhAoS is an amazing difference maker, all the clans in div 3s who played them while he was playing I am sure would agree. I honestly feel that MiNg-UK would have lost to TM, CS-B, SWANT and bsq without KhAoS.

The rule was needed, but witout back dating it the league is unbalanced and does not refelct everyones true positions. I know that it is near impossible to force 6 weeks worth of replays, but when MiNg-UK are promoted above TM a huge sham will have occured. Without KhAoS they will not, be a division 2 satndard clan.

Again opolgies MiNg, I know I could be offending your clan a fair bit, but that is honestly how I and most other Div 3 clans I have spoken to see things.

 

[Hotteh]

Well said Ch3tan and i think every point youve made there is correct. Apologies to MiNg-UK, granted you can learn a helluva lot from a higher division player but when you let him play for you rather than just being a tactical help then you cross a line.
I certainly dont think youd have beaten TM and bsq without KhAos, having spoken to Anders i know for a fact he took out most of bsq before anyone else even had a chance. I think without backdating / reprocessing of results the league retains the sham element we are attempting to eradicate. Such a shame......or sham.

 

[andersschm]

<<but when MiNg-UK are promoted above TM a huge sham will have occured>>

You have to play us first But regardless of the result one of our clans will lose out because of this situation.

We are both aware that even should Ming.uk manage to drop points and we finished level with them - they still go up because of their match results against bsq and TM. So unless DISS and 69 can both defeat Ming in the remaining two games this season ming.uk are promoted.

I accept that possibly this could have been an oversight on their behalf but the actions of some of their members with IRC harassment in #bwcsl and #cs-bombsquad I'm not convinced that this clan are a respectable member of the community.

There isn't an easy answer for the admins on this. However if people taking advantage of exploits are not punished - its an invite for them to find a new way to exploit the league next season.

 

[Ch3tan]

Yep, sorry bout that -hadn't read much about bsq till now, turns out i'm in a clan with your founder

 

[andersschm]

<<clan with your founder>>

It is spoken by the wise women that one day he may return!

 

[Ch3tan]

Yeah he has not been online for ages.

So how did the clans that were affected by this rule cope? WHere their lots of players that were banned from playing under this rule?

 

[andersschm]

From what I can make out it was dealt with quietly between admins and clans concerned.

 

[old.yashar]

Well I really don't see what the problem is, Ming-Uk had Khaos on thier wonid list, he'd joined before the season had started, and he wasnt in clanONE at the time either. So he's moved onto a better clan now, lots of players move clans, nothing you can do about it. Just accept you got beaten fair and square, and try to beat Ming-Uk next season.

 

[cannonfod]

yeah he wasnt in one but he was in uG who are a v.good clan

 

[Ch3tan]

I think the point is he outclassed the other plyaers in the division and single handidly changed the flow of your matches. I'm not disputing he was in clanONE, but a player good enough to play at WCG doesn't belong indivision 3.

 

[old.yashar]

So basically your saying Ming-Uk should be penalised for having a very good player, oh yeah that sounds fair.

 

[Hotteh]

no-ones saying that at all, the emphasis is on prior commitments and clan ties whilst in MiNg.
Khaos was in uG........whether or not uG are in the league or not isnt an issue , personally i stand that one clan is enough for anyone and the "roping in" of other clan players is ringing.Sad.

 

[cannonfod]

I think the fact that he was playing for uG at the same time was enough cos u have to remember uG were good enuff to beat 4k , etc at least once.

 

[Wookles]

Just read this thread for the first time....with some interest I have to say.

Will be interesting to see how MiNG get on in the rest of the season ... wont it ?

[SWANT]Wookie (WA)

 

[andersschm]

There got a default win against BAD, and have games against DISS and 69 (played 69 yesterday).

I think they played all the tougher opposition before the rules introduction.

 

[Ch3tan]

They should not (no disrespect to their coming opponents) lose their remaining matches, the hard games are all gone.

 

[andersschm]

Well in the end it came down to [bsq] v TM to play for the honour of losing promotion to ming-uk over the mercing issue. Probably the finest motivational talk I have ever given before the match as it pissed the guys off something rotten and we came out on top at the end of the day.

Still smarting from it and not really relishing the thought of playing in a mostly uncompetitive division again. Thats CS for you I suppose - since when has it ever been fair?

 

[old.ollyitus]

With the numbers of clans who will be dropping out due to P2P both losing clans will probably get into division 2 anyway (if they request it) . . .Soz we couldnt beat Ming for u (DISS) . . . I put a few AWM shots in one of their players heads for you though