Media Spin

[rynnor]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4771731.stm

Its interested me the way the press have reported this one. Right from the start they have made a lot about her being in the Police even though she was just a special and off duty at the time.

If she had been an admin clerk would it still have gotten the attention and does a persons occupation matter much when they are off duty?

Its interesting to see that she now appears to have gone outside her house to investigate a noise armed with a very large kitchen knife which was then the instrument of her death - moral - dont carry knives.

 

[Chilly]

even if she had confronted her attacker shed have been done if shed stabbed him.

 

[throdgrain]

Its interesting to see that she now appears to have gone outside her house to investigate a noise armed with a very large kitchen knife which was then the instrument of her death - moral - dont carry knives.

Utter wanky statement. Why shouldnt she have the right to defend herself? Who knows what the assailant was carrying ?
Moral my arse :/

 

[nath]

Yes, why shouldn't she. However if it got her killed, perhaps it was a bad idea.

 

[throdgrain]

You cant possibly say that though, the woman did what she thought was right, and was still attacked and murdered by someone. Reading the text it appears her husband's business has been threatened, quite a few times. Surely its possible she was very scared, and didnt know what to do for the best. Or perhaps thats not how it was, we dont know.
However Mr Sanctimonious up there, he knows dont he? Oh god yeah.

 

[nath]

There's absolutely no question that the person who stabbed her is entirely responsible for the murder. The same way a rapist is responsible for what he does when he sees a girl wandering down a quiet dark alley in next to 0 clothing. There's just things you can do to avoid being put in to that situation. I'm not sure if it would have been wise not to take the knife with her this time but I do believe in escalation - carry a gun with you for protection all the time, it's likely someone's going to get shot.

Anyway, it's obviously a sensitive subject for some people and at the end of the day - who knows.

 

[Scouse]

Stuff

Ditto.

 

[Tom]

Sigh. Take a knife and kill the attacker - pillioried. Take a knife and get killed with it - judged.

How fucking stupid. If I thought someone was sneaking around my house, you can bet I wouldn't be walking outside with a nice cup of tea for them.

 

[nath]

Sigh indeed.

Scenario A: you investigate a possible intruder with a knife, end up being stabbed with it.

Scenario B: you investigate a possible intruder and he beats the shit out of you.


Which would you prefer?

I'm not saying that these were necessarily the two possibilities in this instance but just because the person got killed, does that mean we can't question anything she did?

 

[rynnor]

Sigh. Take a knife and kill the attacker - pillioried. Take a knife and get killed with it - judged.

How fucking stupid. If I thought someone was sneaking around my house, you can bet I wouldn't be walking outside with a nice cup of tea for them.

Surely thats what we have a police force for - for the record this was outside her house at night - in similar circumstances if you think the correct behaviour is to grab a large knife and confront them your an idiot plain n simple.

 

[nath]

Well it seems like there's a backstory there, so there may well have been precident.

 

[rynnor]

Utter wanky statement. Why shouldnt she have the right to defend herself? Who knows what the assailant was carrying ?
Moral my arse :/

I'd love to see how you 'defend' yourself with a large knife - theres a reason they are called offensive weapons - going into a situation you think is dodgy enough to require a weapon comes under the things not to do heading - phone the police.

 

[Tom]

Surely thats what we have a police force for - for the record this was outside her house at night - in similar circumstances if you think the correct behaviour is to grab a large knife and confront them your an idiot plain n simple.

I'm an idiot for defending myself and my property?

Welcome to Blair's Britain. What if this was on a Friday night? You think you'd see a policeman inside 30 minutes? Pull the other one.

 

[rynnor]

Well it seems like there's a backstory there, so there may well have been precident.

Trouble is - if you bring a weapon to a confrontation theres a good chance it gets used - sometimes as in this case on the person bringing it - it seems strange someone who was a special constable could only see armed confrontation as the correct response - did she know something we dont about the criminal justice system?

 

[rynnor]

I'm an idiot for defending myself and my property?

Welcome to Blair's Britain. What if this was on a Friday night? You think you'd see a policeman inside 30 minutes? Pull the other one.

You arent defending yourself by going out to confront people are you? defending yourself if they break in is one thing this is another.

 

[nath]

I'm an idiot for defending myself and my property?

Typical tory stance. You would be an idiot for doing that as you'd probably get yourself killed. Tragic though it is, and it's entirely the perps fault, but it seems like this is what *COULD* have happened here.

I can see your pov - you should be allowed to defend yourself and your property but it would be effing stupid as you'd more than likely get your arse handed to you. It's not about should, it's about what's the most likely outcome.

 

[ECA]

Typical tory stance. You would be an idiot for doing that as you'd probably get yourself killed. Tragic though it is, and it's entirely the perps fault, but it seems like this is what *COULD* have happened here.

I can see your pov - you should be allowed to defend yourself and your property but it would be effing stupid as you'd more than likely get your arse handed to you. It's not about should, it's about what's the most likely outcome.

But if Tom was a Kung-Fu master he would have no problems with burglars.

Learn Iron Fist Kung Fu Today!

 

[Calaen]

Agree with Nath, its all well and good saying id defend my property, have you actually held a knife with the intent of using it on another human being? Chances are it would end up in the other guys hands. I had a friend at school when I was 14 his brother used to carry a Butterfly knife 1 day he threatened to stab someone if they would not give him their smokes, the guy took the knife off him and killed him. Shit tends to happen.

 

[nath]

his brother used to carry a Butterfly knife 1 day he threatened to stab someone if they would not give him their smokes, the guy took the knife off him and killed him. Shit tends to happen.

I'm inclined to say serves him fucking right, but I don't think I mean it.

 

[Tom]

Anyone who comes near my home will get clouted with whatever comes to hand, and that includes a knife.

Theres no fucking way I'll ever hide in a room waiting for the police to turn up whenever they can.

 

[yaruar]

more to this case than meets the eye.. you mark my words.

 

[throdgrain]

more to this case than meets the eye.. you mark my words.

Couldnt agree more (just this once! )

 

[DaGaffer]

Seems odd that someone who's a copper (albeit a part-timer) would take the decision to wander outside with a knife;

a. she would have known that using it would have its own consequences;
b. she would have known that unless you actually know how to use it, waving around any kind of weapon is usually a bad idea; and,
c. as a copper, if she'd have phoned the police about an intruder, she'd have got a damn site quicker response than an average member of the public. Unless of course she didn't want the police to be involved...

I don't have an issue with someone defending their property, but there's definitely something 'off' about this.

 

[yaruar]

Seems odd that someone who's a copper (albeit a part-timer) would take the decision to wander outside with a knife;

a. she would have known that using it would have its own consequences;
b. she would have known that unless you actually know how to use it, waving around any kind of weapon is usually a bad idea; and,
c. as a copper, if she'd have phoned the police about an intruder, she'd have got a damn site quicker response than an average member of the public. Unless of course she didn't want the police to be involved...

I don't have an issue with someone defending their property, but there's definitely something 'off' about this.

That and her husband, on the night of their 3rd wedding aniversary, goes off to play snooker with his friends after an evening out with her? And then she gets attacked on the very same night he is away from the scene..... I give it less than 3 weeks until he is arrested......

 

[leggy]

I think I'm about to reiterate a few others' opinions but:

There is nothing wrong with 'defending' your 'property'
There is definitely something wrong when you defend it with lethal intent (large sharp knife)
Defending your life however is another matter completely.

This is where there is a massive grey area. How do you explain that the corpse next to you was threatening your life or your 40" plasma telly?

If she genuinely didnt know whether or not they intended to harm her then there is a common sense issue here.

Don't wield a knife that you have no idea how to use for self defence; unless, of course, you are fully prepared for the possibility that it will be used to cut your own throat.

 

[GDW]

Well the chances are that if you confront a would be assailant with a weapon that you are not trained to use effectively, then there is a high chance that you could end up having it used against you, especially if you dont have the element of surprise. Now if thats a risk you are prepared to take then so be it. In my opinion I would neither like to be killed or seriously wounded by my own weapon, nor banged up for a life sentence for inflicting the same.

I'll just hide behind the sofa, get over it and then enjoy the rest of my life. Good luck to all you computer chair machos lol

You only get one chance in this world.

 

[throdgrain]

I reckon she was fairly sure there was intent to injure, though of course thats purely speculation.

 

[Dukat]

Theres no fucking way I'll ever hide in a room waiting for the police to turn up whenever they can.

Have to agree with this.

Agree with Nath, its all well and good saying id defend my property, have you actually held a knife with the intent of using it on another human being?

Several times, but I would guess I am in a minority here

I know I'm getting off-topic here, but the crux of the matter for me is that I have a family. I live near where the "Tony Martin" incident occured, I have no illusions of what would happen to me if I did use a weapon to defend my family.

However, this will not stop me from defending my own. If someone enters my house illegally at night, to me there is one thing that I am thinking of and one thing only. Stopping that person or persons - no matter how many there are - from reaching where my family sleep.

I dont care who is in government at the time, how long I could go down for, or anything else. To me the idea of spending time in prison is FAR more preferable to sitting idly by while someone hurts my family.

In the situation described above, I would say the woman was foolish to leave her house. although this is without knowing the entire situation at hand.

 

[GDW]

So she goes outside wandering with a kitchen knife thereby negating any element of surprise whatsoever.

"Hello.....Heellllooo here I am and here is a nice sharp knife knife for you to make you're intent to injure me a little bit easier."

 

[Dukat]

I'll just hide behind the sofa, get over it and then enjoy the rest of my life. Good luck to all you computer chair machos lol

You only get one chance in this world.

I agree, you only get the once chance.

As I said in my previous post, I have a family, living near to bleak house kinda impressed upon me the seriousness of protecting them. I admit I have a bit of an obsession with protecting them, but only because I have seen/heard what can happen when people take this matter lightly.

call it being a "computer chair macho" if you will but to me this is simple common sense.

I actually consider myself something of a coward - if its just me in a situation then I tend to try to talk my way out of things, I've done this before a couple of times in the past. There is absolutely no need for a fight that has a high chance of ruining your life, either through injury or legal implications.

That said, if my family is in the situation then I'll be taking no chances at all.