Mattix Revolutions

[evzy]

Seen a few people mentioning they didnt like the last Matrix film , just got around to finally seeing it tonight and actually enjoyed it quite a lot.
Just wondering what other people thought - more those of you who didnt enjoy it - why ? what were you hoping for or expecting from it ?
Just curious - am I the only person who thought it was ok?

 

[Furr]

although i suposed it was ok when i watched it in the cinema I couldnt help but laugh at certain points which I pray wernt supposed to be entierly serious . Not really in the first half of the film but mostly after the fight in zion started that things got a bit ridiculous.

 

[Tualatin]

I liked it Only downside is that it was a bit predictable.

 

[Tasslehoff]

I thought it was nice, also hard to make an ending to that trilogy. But I guess they had most of it made up from the start.

I'd also like to hear why people don't like it

 

[Khefru]

My opinion is treat the first matrix film as a stand alone film just like Highlander for e.g. The sequels are pure money making, cheesy, cringe inducing garbage. I found the 3rd matrix all of what I've just stated. They could of made the 2nd and 3rd into just 1 film. There was way too much cheesy speeches and needless scenes.

Probably the biggest overall dissapointment for me though was the fact that it was so predictable, whereas the first film wasn't.

 

[Skyler]

I think they started out with a great film being the Matrix... then tried to finish the story and dug themselves such a deep hole with things not making sense and although they tried hard to tell the story and finish it they didn't manage it

all 3 are very watchable films and are fun to watch but people should stop trying to judge each one as having to be a super duper ownage film alone and think of them as 3 action packed films which are enjoyable to watch and deserve a place in someones DVD collection..

 

[Shovel]

I really enjoyed the second and was looking forward to something special at the end.

Spoiler

I found everything (bar the Karma speech) up to the point that they got Neo out of Mobil Ave very entertaining. Action was slick and the dialogue was fairly tight. Then the Merovingian inexplicably disappeared and it went rapidly downhill.

I didn't like the Zion robots fight, I got very bored. I saw it a second time and it passed a little quicker, but was still rubbish.

And then the ending... ugh. As much as the Matrix does go deeper than most action films (in a Sci Fi nerd sort of way), the ending was pants I thought. OK sure, Neo had to die, but there was no satisfaction to it at all. He never actually figured anything out for himself, he had to wait for the bloody Oracle to tell him what to do even at the end and being smugly "Smithed" didn't really do it for me. I completely understand the reasoning for it being like that, I just think it was rubbish.

I wrote a much better plot on the train home, but I've lost it. I sometimes wonder about doing it again, but there are gazillions of better and more worthwhile things to do with my time.

 

[SawTooTH]

I initially thought they were going to go down the matrix within a matrix route. That would have been cool and played with your head more. Certainly looked that way at the end of the second film. In the end the last film passed some time but didnt really pull out any fresh new ideas. I bought the DVD just to complete the set.

 

[Whipped]

I bought the DVD just to complete the set.

Which is the reason I too will be buying it. Not sure why it grated so badly for me. It's one of those endings that leaves you going, "buuuhhh, thereeee, buuuhhh, Oh sod it, I've no idea what all that meant."

 

[ReActor]

Having seen all three I kind of wish I'd never bothered with the last two. Then again, I couldn't NOT see them I spose, having enjoyed the first one so much.

The third one was marginally better than the second, I thought. There was slightly less messing around and a lot less moments which I weren't sure were meant to be serious or jokes.

It's strange how they did everything I expected, in both films, and yet somehow none of it was as cool as I imagined it would be. Also, the ending was alright but I really just didn't care at that point.

Wouldn't want to see it on the small screen because that would eliminate the one thing worth watching it for: the occasional big spectacle which made me go 'wow' in the cinema (in particular when Neo and Trinity suddenly fly above the clouds and are bathed in sunlight).

 

[Stazbumpa]

First one aer teh l33t!!!11

Second one not as good but not bad at all, enjoyed muchly.

Third one was a good film trying to get out of a pile of arse juice. Sloppy script, a ridiculous fight with Smith akin to a Dragonball Z cartoon and Neo's pointless death. Just left me feeling slightly cheated to be honest.

 

[Taen]

ok .. So everyone liked the first one .. why ? .. because it was a stand alone film and nobody had seen anything like it b4

Some people liked the second one and others hated it .. this puzzles me because the second one was the better film .. better and more tightly scripted plot, better action sequences, better effects, better characters .. the only reson I think people didnt like it as much is because it failed to recreate the experience of seeing the first one ... it would be impossible to do this because the first film set the premise and the job of the other movies was to expand and enrich the plot and characters ... so for me the first film was the better experience but the second one was the better film .. I was really impressed with how it furthered the plot

The third one was not good .. some great action and effects sequences but the plot was terrible ... it didnt tie up what the first two films promised .. it was a lazy and rushed ending .. made no sense and was a complete cop-out .. it really was a shame

 

[Wij]

Agreed. The third was bollocks. A lot of people don't like Reloaded. I do. They can kiss my willy tbh. Revolutions though ? What IS there to like. The plot is boring, no more twists. The action sequences are poor compared to the others. Robot fights ? Who cares ? Smith vs Neo ? That wasn't a fight, it was just flying in the rain.

(_*_)

 

[Shovel]

Agreed. One of the most enjoyable things about martial arts is the jumping. If you're flying, this is somewhat eliminated and leaves it as drivel.

While I can accept making them both very powerful, I'd have much rather they were to hurl themselves at each other and potentially shoot off into the air with the impact (e.g. the initial flight when they spin around and around throwing punches [as in the trailer] was alright, it was the flying kicks and swooping about that make it so terrible).

Anyway, for what it's worth, I'd have preferred a plot with more Merovingian in it. He was, imho, the best character in the whole trilogy.

Spoiler

One of things implied at the end was that the humans hadn't actually produced any of what they owned. Zion had been built by machines and they knew where it was all along. The training programmes and the hovercraft all provided by them as part of the control. -- Yes, the "Woman in the Red Dress" was coded by Mouse in M1, but she could have just been an extension ). Merv, it was revealed, was of course responsible for smuggling things in and out of the Matrix - he also coded his own creations within the Matrix. I strikes me as reasonable that he should be responsible for this in the film.

--> If this is then true, then Merv is given significance to the whole Matrix set up. His link to being the Devil (subtle Persephone reference in Reloaded, awful Hell Club reference in Revs) gives him an opposing position to the Architect. However, rather than some overly biblical good/evil relationship, lets make them related and dependent on each other. Therefore the Arch created the perfect Matrix, while Merv kits out the humans. Think of it as social commentary or something.

And then fuck knows what could happen. One of the things missing was making Smith something truly evil. We cut back to the Matrix after he's assimilated everyone. It needed a scene where the Smiths move through a busy street or shopping centre knocking over prams and smacking the mothers before Smith-aging them. Something to make you actually hate him. Something to get across that he's actually evil.

Spoiler

Then there's the Architects line from Reloaded regarded Neo never meeting him again. It again rubbed in how rubbish Neo turned out to be. Neo should have defied that and shown up uninvited. I like this:

--> Smith gets too strong for Neo. Smith is hard wired in to the Matrix and doesn't have to fight it to get his power. Neo, though, is constantly hacking in and it's reasonable to suggest that he's always fighting the security devices of the system to break the rules. Neo needs to get around these so that he can beat Smith. Sounding reasonable so far? So, rather than the travelling to 01, he hunts out the Merovingian. Cue a line like: "I need to get to heaven so I've come to see the devil", and possibly tie it in with Smith making an attack on Merv [I like the idea that, since he writes his own programs] the Merovingian is more like a wizard, the film has got so ridiculous already that having Merv point his finger and set one of the Smiths on fire would probably fit. I also like the idea that such a fight takes place in the Do-Jang from the M1 sparing program. Tie it in with Merv having created it and provided it Anyway, fight proceeds, Merv gets outnumbered and Neo dives in at the last minute and fly's him away somewhere (remember that Smith can't fly after him in this version).

Anyway: Merv and Neo proceed to break into "Heaven", confront the Arch and we have the whole 'making a deal' business take place inside the Matrix. Neo is given a pill (possibly a black one) which will give him root access to the system (see where this is going?). Cue some Architect speech with obscenely long words hinting that taking the pill will irrecoverably link him into the Matrix [kill him as a human]. Neo puts pill in pocket and wanders off.

In the final fight, Neo is forced to take the pill and matches Smith, until eventually beaten down again. Smith tries to copy himself again, gets the black wibbly effect all over. Makes some comment about Neo's purpose being defunct. But it retracts and reveals Neo again. Neo does something unusually charismatic like raise his eyebrows, reverse-side-kicks this particular Smith who explodes into light. The rest just explode for good measure and to save tedium.

Cut to the end, bench with "In memory of Thomas A Anderson", and cut to the top of some building where Arch, Oracle, Merv and Neo are playing cards. Neo, when assuming root privs, defied the purpose that Smith was supposed to be his equal at, and rather than be neutralised picked himself a new purpose and is now one of the 4 characters with influence on the Matrix. He is dead though. As is Trinity (say Bain killed her as it adds to the Smith hating). No more sequels mmkay?

-- Make up something about his new assumed purpose being to free the new Matrix slaves from within, since actually destroying the Matrix would be a far to predictable ending. End Credits.

____
There we are. I secretly pretend that that's what really happened so that I can still look back on Reloaded with some affection.

Yes, I do have too much time.

 

[Skyler]

Careful the W brothers don't read that Shovel that sounded pretty good ;p

 

[GekuL]

With the first film we weren't sure whether he was "the one" or not, and that's what made it good.
2 and 3 didn't really have anything significant to add. Where was the twist? If I'm supposed to work out the plot, I want this to change how I approach the film for a second viewing. Most of the fight scenes are just boring as well, like play fighting as a child.

Spoiler

and then the main characters die, who didn't see that coming?

Almost a victim of it's own success, like carmageddon, it lost it's "soul" in number 2. It gets overly complicated, hiding the shit story behind sub-text. You add up all the bits, because maybe then you'll "get" the film, and then once you do you kick yourself for wasting your time on such drivel.

Spoiler

The religious references are just ludicrous

BTW, I didn't like the films

 

[Shovel]

Careful the W brothers don't read that Shovel that sounded pretty good ;p

Yeah, I quite like my version too. However, if the W Brothers were to remake it with my plot I'd be delighted, rather than pissed off, since I could then enjoy the films again.

-- Sadly the chances of a multi-billion pound production studio financing a "remake of a very expensive sequel in which a handful of scenes have been rewritten by a bored computer science student who should have been doing his coursework" are rather slim. And, let's be honest, it doesn't have the same ring to it as "Directors Cut" .

 

[Skyler]

Well everyone knew it would be super hard to display the one in all his glory with all his 'superpowers' and their answer to the agent killing one was smith.. which I didn't particularly enjoy..

 

[Bodhi]

I thought the Matrix Trilogy got better as it progressed. The first had fancy special effects, but all the way through I always had the impression we weren't being told all of the story. After seeng the secind two, I know this to be true aswell. The main subtext to the Matrix films (who Neo represents) was absent except in a couple of off-hand comments (Such as "You're my own personal jesus christ"). The plot was excellent, however the first 90 minutes were bordering on tedious. The last 45 minutes were awesome however. Not the best of the trilogy by any means, in fact after seeing the last two, many sections seemed boring and pointless. A deeply original film granted, but the second two took the concept further.

Reloaded was an action film first and foremost, with little of the plot building and tedious conversation of the first one and as a result was a far better film imo. We all could have done without the whole Zion section, but then with the amount of filler the LOTR films had, twas only fair for the W's to add some to their trilogy.

Hehe Revolutions. That old chestnut. Seems to be a lot of negative reaction to it, but then I remember a lot of other classics that had initially poor reactions (2001, Blues Brothers) and I suspect people's opinion of this one will change also. It really is an awesome film, with not a single scene I'd cut (ok I'd probably get Trin's death over and done with quicker, but that's fair enough, she died once already). All they did was up the scale of the first two films. I liked the fact very little of Revolutions took place in the Matrix itself - it prevented the W's from getting silly with the bullet time in an effort to top the first two. The final Neo Smith fight was awesome (it was the final battle between Good and Evil ffs, do you really expect them to settle it with an old fashioned fistfight? They did well to avoid getting fireballs in there somewhere), and THAT punch left a warm gooey stain in my pants. I also liked Smith's final end - Neo started the film as a hacker, and that's how he ended. A bit of continuity through 8 hours of headfuck is nice - the look of desperation in Smith's face as he realised what was going on was priceless. And who said Neo was dead? It was broadly hinted that he wasn't - hardly takes a rocket scientist to figure out he might not be. I could have done without the every race in union ending, but I'll take it if the alternative involves dancing ewoks. Merv was an annoyance in the second film - I was glad his part in the thrid was limited (he wasn't supposed to be Satan of the Matrix either - watch Rev carefully enough you'll figure out who it was). No offence Shovel, but I preferred the way the Wachowski's finished it. Your ending probably would have resulted in me leaving the cinema halfway thru :/


Best trilogy ever imo. The fact that not many people agree suits me fine aswell - it will stop them from killing it with merchandising a la LOTR/Star Wars. Might keep the kids from getting into aswell - should avoid any Ep 1 silliness if they decide to make more.

 

[Shovel]

No offence Shovel, but I preferred the way the Wachowski's finished it. Your ending probably would have resulted in me leaving the cinema halfway thru :/

That, my friend, is the wonderful thing about opinions

-- I do remember the bit about Neo maybe being alive, now you mention it. The problem being that it was irrelevant. The only purpose it served in the film is leaving it open for some sequels. That last babble would have been much better with lines like that left out.

I agree about the continuity of Neo being a hacker, but I still maintain that he didn't have a bloody clue what he was doing

Anyway, give it a few months to plummet in price and I'll pick the sequels up and see what I make of it again after all this time.

 

[Mazling]

Doesn't seem to be much mention of "The Source" here at all. I found that little bit really sppoky: at the end of Reloaded, was the door that led to the source a fake ... does it really exist? And if it does, what is it?
The first film did a lot of things that hadn't been done before, wrapped up in a nice sort of underdog and prophecy and general unknown-ness style. Second one wasnt so much about the spook but what the characters were going through, what motivated them, and soforth. The end of Reloaded and all of Revolutions erased what the two previous films made you think: The oracle and The One(tm) were not going to save the human race. This reinforced the Source thing for me, as I wondered what was controlling all of this ... the Architect seemed just another pawn.

I suppose a film that builds itself on computers - logic and explanations and soforth - doesn't make it easy to incorporate all the philosophical stuff. When watching the films I didn't try to put in all sorts of explanations and my own philosophy, I just tried to understand the different characters and what they were going through.

Reloaded was an action film first and foremost, with little of the plot building and tedious conversation of the first one and as a result was a far better film imo. We all could have done without the whole Zion section, but then with the amount of filler the LOTR films had, twas only fair for the W's to add some to their trilogy.

Reloaded got trashed *because* of all the "pointless" dialogue ... It wasn't pointless, and generally ties up what I said before - the films were not trying to say Neo was Jesus himself, just trying to show you the characters.
I can't deny the films didn't taken umpteen (that northern for "lots") viewings for me to catch up and get them, but they do grow on you once you stop trying to see them a certain way, and just watch what you're shown. The film was made by comic-book readers ffs, everyone is seeing half the thing and filling in all the wrong gaps (with) themselves.

 

[Wij]

Most of what Shovel said is what I've said. I was trying to remember why I was supposed to hate Smith at the end of the film and found I didn't give a shit.

But I had to buy it to complete the trilogy